Did he lie about the snip to stop using condoms?!

[Unbelievable27]

I'm fuming.

So I've been seeing this guy casually for a bit. We started off using protection, but he kept complaining about it and wanted to do it without. I held my own for a while, told him I was on no contraception (trying to get my hormones to sync naturally after years of the pill) but he said he will get an STD test done for me and that's when I'm sure he said he had the snip also!!

Anyway a bit of time went on, and after a few drinks one night, I gave in.

From there it has seemed we had already broke that boundary so we carried on unprotected, me convinced it's safe because he's had the snip and I also get myself checked.

Anyway fast forward and I find myself PREGNANT.

I tell him about being late on and my worries of falling pregnant (him still unaware of the pregnancy), so I ask him to confirm if he has had the snip. He tells me that's he's been circumsied and not the snip and perhaps I got confused and to just go and take the morning after pill.

Considering it's been months of unprotected sex, it's a bit late to be suggesting that now and why wasn't he worried of this consequence. I also wouldn't be allowing this if I thought there was a risk of pregnancy.

I'm just in shock and confused because all this time I thought he had the snip and now I'm being told otherwise. I wouldn't just make this up in my head but that's basically what he's telling me.

I don't know what exactly I'm looking for on here - perhaps confirmation that this isn't just something I would make up?! Why was I so sure he had the snip? He must have told me but I'm doubting my own mind now.

The law is based on whether there's valid consent, as it should be. And I'm talking about today not 60 years ago.

That's like saying 60 years ago mobile phones didn't exist so if someone steals your phone it's not a crime

I'm curious as to why you believe it's not rape?

If you didn't want a baby you should have taken responsibility for your contraception yourself and not trusted him.

This is what people say about men all the time on here - that if they didn't want a baby they should have doubled up on contraception.

If you did not want a baby you should have continued to protect yourself regardless of him claiming he'd had a vasectomy.

How on earth is it?

It’s not rape, it’s been proven in courts that it’s not rape and is in fact not a criminal act.

R v Lawrence says that it's not rape. https://ipsaloquitur.com/criminal-law/cases/r-v-lawrance/

it’s been proven in courts that it’s not rape

That's a very odd way of phrasing that.

Nothing's been proven.

A court, at that time, decided deception re. contraception by one partner was not rape.

That's not set in stone perpetually.

But in any case, it not being legally defined as rape, still doesn't mean it's sex with true/full consent. It's not.
It's just not legally been declared to be rape (yet).

The Morning After Pill?! The man is a bloody idiot aswell as a probable liar.

So when women stop taking the pill and dont tell the man they are sleeping with so they can get pregnant is that rape?

Honestly @Unbelievable27 this guy is too stupid for you. And a liar. Deffo get an STD check done and decide if you want a child. Because remember, if you do keep it, you will be tied to that idiot for life. Think of the stress 😵

"But in any case, it not being legally defined as rape, still doesn't mean it's sex with true/full consent. It's not.
It's just not legally been declared to be rape (yet)"

That's fair enough but then people shouldn't use legal terms like rape.

I, like most on this site, wouldn't have any time for a man claiming that a woman lying to a man about being on the pill was rape because legally they can't commit rape and also the courts have ruled on lying about fertility. And I don't think its a valid argument to say "well it hasn't been declared to be rape yet".
Women intentionally deceptively stopping taking birth control hasn't been declared as sexual assault yet and it is also obtaining sex through deception without true/full consent.
It should be enough to say I think that's deplorable and should be illegal, rather than declaring it as illegal and when corrected arguing that because it could change in the future both opinions are valid.

I think it's important to distinguish between people being deceptive and acting immorally and rape.

And that's not because I want to victim blame or spout MRA "women do it too" nonsense, it's because the lack of knowledge around matters like this should not be added to.

On this thread we've had a decent number of posters telling OP she has been raped and telling her to go to the police, they are not helping her and could add to her trauma.

Is this really the right post to debate on? Op came here for support.

Stealthing is classified as rape as consent to sex was conditional on not being unprotected.
The Sexual Offences Act 2003 says that someone did not consent to sex if the other person tricked them about the 'nature' of the sex – in other words, what exactly it was going to involve. This is what's known in law as 'conditional consent'.
Although the Sexual Offences Act does not specifically mention lying about putting on a condom or non-consensual condom removal, a man who carried out stealthing was convicted of rape in 2019. This case confirmed that conditional consent applied in cases of stealthing and that it was therefore rape under English and Welsh law.
rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/types-of-sexual-violence/what-is-stealthing/

That would be a different thread.

Also rape is legally penetration with a penis so ....

The legal definition of rape is to not consent to being penetrated, OP consented to that. Yes she didn’t know he had not had a vasectomy but that’s not the definition of rape

Yes he got consent through deception but that’s doesn’t make it rape

There was a guy convicted and sentenced for rape to 4 years and 3 months in prison last year for removing a condom during sex as consent was conditional on using one.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jun/13/london-man-jailed-stealthing-removing-condom-without-consent

Absolutely. The law is not here to deal with everything that we might consider immoral and hasn't been ever since witchcraft and blasphemy were decriminalised. If immorality was within the scope of the law, marital infidelity would be a crime, yet it isn't.

Physically removing a condom isn't the same as telling a lie about one's fertility.

He’s lied. Why the hell else would he think you’d tell him you are not using your own contraception eg pill yet would still happily use nothing at all with him?!?! Liar liar liar.

Why did he tell you to take the morning after pill?

yes he lied so he could go with out condoms you are so silly believing him he gaslighted you by making out he didn’t say it
if you do not want the baby get an abortion pill

OP's did not consent to run the risk of pregnancy - her consent was conditional of his statement that he had had a vasectomy and was therefore infertile. OP would not have consented otherwise.

R v Lawrance – Case Summary

R v Jason Lawrance Court of Appeal Citations: [2020] EWCA Crim 971. Facts The defendant told the complainant that he was infertile because he had a vasectomy. On this basis, she agreed to have unpr…

https://ipsaloquitur.com/criminal-law/cases/r-v-lawrance/

You can say otherwise until you are blue in the face, but case law is that lying about a vasectomy does not invalidate consent to sex.

I once had a BF who was in his late 50s, one time he was having problems applying the condom, and made a comment about me taking the pill (so he wouldn't need to use condoms) I told him I'd been om the pill since I was 16 for my skin problem and even if he'd had a vasectomy I would still insist on condoms because he could have had sex with someone with HIV or Syphilis 6 months previously. I dumped him there and then for being a filthy, presumptuous bastard, I will never tolerate a man who tries to have sex without a condom, I know they can fail but if he doesn't care about my sexual health he can get to fuck.