Huge row with DH over misunderstanding

[Jollibee]

DH and I had a big argument over him mishearing something that I said. He then repeatedly accused me of gaslighting him/ acting like the victim - it all got quite vicious. He wants me to admit what I said and apologise for it. I know I didn’t say it. He won’t speak to me until I “admit what I did”.
Writing it down I see how childish and toxic the whole situation is. We’ve been married a long time and are usually happy. Normally I’d say he was my best friend. He’s going through a bad patch with his depression at the moment and seems generally burnt out by life. (We both are it’s been an incredibly difficult year). I don’t know what to do to resolve this now though. I suppose if he genuinely feels like I would lie and manipulate just to avoid apologising to him then it says a lot about how he sees me.

I don’t know what to do.

It sounds like his depression talking. And not letting him back down and admit he might have been wrong.

All I can suggest is some space from each other for a while. Perhaps go out for a while then make him a cuppa when you get back and maybe go and get on with something elsewhere in the house. I don't think there's any point pressing the issue that you didn't say what he thought he'd heard. And you most certainly shouldn't apologise.

Give him space, give an olive branch and hopefully he'll calm down to the 'agree to disagree' stage.

It sounds tough. Go and do something nice for yourself for a while.

I know now he has decided that’s what happened he won’t back down. Unless I admit it/ apologise he will be frosty with me. We are avoiding each other today but I honestly hate it. Part of me was tempted to agree with him just to make it go away. I won’t though as I know that isn’t right.

What does he think you said? You don’t have to say but just run through what he thinks you said to try and work out why. Were you saying something similar and he totally misunderstood, so you could more easily explain that when he calms down? Or has he imagined something totally out of nowhere?

I wouldn’t back down and apologise though. I’d actually expect an apology from him for his behaviour and the accusations he has made.

You stand your ground. You did not say what he thought you did, why should you lie and say you did just to stop him acting like a two year old

Leave it for now, let him be frosty, you just carry on as normal, ask him questions and chat as normal, ignore the tantrum

Then perhaps tomorrow just gently explain you did not say whatever so can’t apologise for something you did not do and it’s up to him to accept that or not

And leave hi, to it, just carry on as normal

If he isn't receptive to more talking I would write a note saying

Johnny, I understand how upset you are but I honestly never said XXXXXXX, I actually said XXXXXXX and now we have had a falling out.

It's such a shame as we had a rubbish year last year and this year we should be looking forward to better times together.

He won’t speak to me until I “admit what I did”.

This sentence stands out for me from your post because it seems like abuse. You are forced to lie in order to get access to the communication that should be the bedrock of your (and any) relationship. If you think that he is doing this because of something outside of his control, like a MH issue, then I'd call in all resources - extended family, friends, maybe someone or something in the public domain that he still respects? - to convince him to get professional help. But you cannot make him get help if he decides no.

If there's no way for him to understand/acknowledge how wrong his behavior is, then maybe the relationship is not good for you and you might consider how to leave.

It’s hard to explain but basically we were talking about his anxiety and the impact it has on his life. I said I was worried that our son who also has anxiety was facing some of the same challenges. DH thinks I said that his anxiety was ruining our children’s lives. That’s not word for word what was said but the jist of it. He remembers me very clearly saying “your anxiety is ruining our DS’ life” which I absolutely didn’t say.

Never admit to something you haven’t done. He’s the ones who’s gaslighting you. And if you fold here, he will know he can do this again in the future. He’s being an abusive dickhead. Depression is no excuse to act like a total prick. Drop the rope. Make plans with family/friends and go about your business. He’s punishing you for not giving in to his bullshit demands by stonewalling you. Stonewalling is abuse. So, drop the rope and get on with your life. He can’t give you the cold shoulder if you’re out having a nice time with people who care about you. Remove yourself from this toxic environment and get some space to think about what kind of future you want for yourself.

Is it abuse/ gaslighting on his part if he genuinely thinks I said it though? I can tell by his reactions he honestly thinks I did and that I’m now lying to him to get out of trouble/ get out of apologising.

He sounds like an arsehole. Does he need medication. This might improve things for him. You are very nice to support him some times people need more than support. I hope he is appreciative at other times.

Yes because instead of sitting down and having an adult conversation about it and working through it to find a resolution, he is CHOOSING instead to punish you. He has decided that he will punish you until you break under the pressure and bow down to his demands. That’s abusive. Just because he may be angry doesn’t give the right to be emotionally abusive.

It’s highly likely the depression. There is research that shows that when ppl are depressed they have a strong tendency to hear negative things. It doesn’t matter what you say he will hear the negative.
I read a helpful book When Someone you love is depressed, How to help your loved one without loosing yourself by Laura Epstein Rosen
when my DH was depressed.
Keep your distance for a day or so. Keep busy.
Be calm (if you can) Tell him you don’t want to argue with him and that you love him. That you want to make up and move past it.
However you know what you said and you don’t need to apologize and neither should you.
Get some real life support for yourself and do things that you enjoy. His depression is talking and you know it’s not him.
It’s very hard - I know this as I have been through it and now we are on the other side and he is himself again. Sweet, thoughtful, laughing. Also stubborn sometimes but a kind and supportive husband.

The abusive part is refusing to speak until you apologise. He is refusing to accept his part in the argument and that you are wrong.

Has this happened before or is this a one off?

Edit - you didn't mention if he is seeking professional help with his depression. He really needs to speak to his GP, either to start, or up, his medication/therapy.

You did not say that. Say ‘I’m sorry if you picked me up wrong but I did not say that. Because I don’t think that. Stop bullying me’

He is a lovely, kind, supportive DH. But when we argue (not often but when we do) it’s like he sees me as the enemy he needs to beat rather than his wife. It feels like he hates me. Last night when I got upset he said “now there you go. Putting on the waterworks. Always your last resort”. And the tone he said it in was so mean and uncaring. But it’s so confusing because this isn’t who he is or how we behaves for 99% of the time.

I would be so upset about this OP. If you can tell that he genuinely thinks you said it, can't he tell that you genuinely think you didn't say it?

Abusers are never abusive all the time. Mocking you when you’re upset is emotional abuse. And the reason he doesn’t do this all the time is because you’re toeing the line the rest of the time. It’s only when you step out of line that he needs to break out the abusive behaviour. He’s training you to accept that he is always right and you should never stand up to him or you will be punished until you toe the line again. This is classic emotional abuse. Have a read of this book whilst you have time since he’s not speaking to you. it might help make things clearer for you so you can understand this behaviour.

https://www.docdroid.net/2fZmz40/why-does-he-do-that-pdf

Apparently not. He genuinely thinks I am trying to manipulate him and gaslight him. Which makes me feel awful - if that’s how he sees me I don’t know where that leaves us.

I agree with @Candlesandmatches . its important not to escalate the fight, but also not to pander to him by giving in and apologizing for something you not only didnt do but something you wouldn’t do.

He is projecting his own fear and (to a certain extent perhaps) his self loathing for his anxiety and depression into your mouth. He does fear he is ruining your son’s life. And so he is ready internally to hear you say it. He is thinking it and he thinks you are too.

But whether you apologize or not in any event, he won’t let it go. If you apologize he will just hold a grudge because you have now confirmed your bad intentions on two levels: you thought and said the unthinkable thing and you denied it!

Read the book suggested above and try reacting compassionately but firmly. “You seem to still be upset by our discussion. I am going to repeat that I did not say you were ruining our child’s life. My word should be good enough for you. If you can’t accept that I am trying to problem solve with you and not against you then we have a much bigger problem than mere hurt feelings. Lets look for couples counseling or a holiday to try to get over this hump.”

But it IS how he is.

Even if it's only a tiny percentage.

He clearly can't be wrong

'I'm sorry that you think I said that your anxiety is ruining the DCs lives. I didn't say that and I don't think it is true.'

Cross posted with this. I also suggest “Why does he do that” by Lundy Bancroft. This is straight up abusive. Importantly once you recognize that he cycles into this mean/manipulative style you can’t win except by walking away.

A normal marriage is like a great, gentle game of chess or tennis. If your partner starts attacking you with guns and knives while you are following the rules there is no rules based way to get them to play normally again. There is no conversation to be had. Their goal is to crush and silence you.

@pikkumyy77 good advice but I would also say that couples counselling is not recommended when there is abuse present. It just emboldens the abuser to use vulnerabilities unearthed during sessions against their victims. I would suggest individual therapy for the OP to learn about boundary setting and assertiveness. I wouldn’t be surprised if during sessions it transpired that there was much more abuse happening here than op realises. It’s often the case with DA victims that they only see the abuse when it’s overt and miss the subtle manipulation that is often harder to spot.

Do you say no at any other point in your relationship and he stays lovely, kind and supportive, or do you generally follow his lead at all times?

Saying no or being ill are the best barometers at telling how lovely and supportive your partner really is.

I find this really hard. Because honestly I don’t toe the line really and there is plenty we don’t agree on but resolve like adults. (That isn’t just him getting his own way).

But I also can’t argue that last night he wasn’t emotionally abusive - I know the way he reacted to me crying was. And I also know when he feels like his personality is under attack/ or his “goodness” is being questioned (even if it really isn’t) he attacks back and can be really vicious about it. I’m fairly sure it stems back from his childhood/ family reactions. I also know that it doesn’t excuse it. And he needs to have more self awareness about it.

It just feels messy. Because I love him. Because he is a genuinely good man. And because the frequency this happens might only be once a year or less. Is it really worth throwing away a good and happy marriage for that?