Huge row with DH over misunderstanding

[Jollibee]

DH and I had a big argument over him mishearing something that I said. He then repeatedly accused me of gaslighting him/ acting like the victim - it all got quite vicious. He wants me to admit what I said and apologise for it. I know I didn’t say it. He won’t speak to me until I “admit what I did”.
Writing it down I see how childish and toxic the whole situation is. We’ve been married a long time and are usually happy. Normally I’d say he was my best friend. He’s going through a bad patch with his depression at the moment and seems generally burnt out by life. (We both are it’s been an incredibly difficult year). I don’t know what to do to resolve this now though. I suppose if he genuinely feels like I would lie and manipulate just to avoid apologising to him then it says a lot about how he sees me.

I don’t know what to do.

How bad is his MH? Could he be having delusions or auditory hallucinations?
It's probably really difficult for you to broach that with him as if he genuinely believes that you are gaslighting him you saying he could be delusional may just play into that more. Is there a family member or friend who could chat with him about it?

I do think that while you doesn’t say those words and don’t think that, during talking about his anxiety you brought up your worries about your son’s anxiety which in your head may have been a natural flow talking about dealing with another loved one’s anxiety but to him could feel like you are connecting the dots from his anxiety to your son’s.

I think you go in and admit how that really connected for you and you didn’t mean it as a passed on condition rather than you just want to help both of them and maybe feel that their experiences could help each other (if that’s how you feel). Or just explain what you did mean.

@marthasmum yes that does sound very similar, and how I feel as well. I recognise he behaves in an emotionally abusive way during these periods but I don’t feel abused. And similarly my DH is also a meek/ mild/ gentle person outside of the times he lashes out.

How do you cope with it, if you don’t mind me asking?

I think I have in the past had a tendency to let things go/ move on quickly. I think I’m questioning this response now.

Sounds like a guilty conscience to me. He thinks his anxiety is ruining your ds life so that’s what he heard.

I will have a look and will have a think. I know I need to unpick more here. I suppose even if I recognise that he can at times react in an emotionally abusive/ not ideal way, when taking into account the whole/ picture relationship does it matter?

As I said I am mostly very happy and I recognise I am not perfect either. Sometimes I struggle with things like empathy for his depression. Plus I’ve always been quite fiery so day for day I’m far more likely to lose my temper with him than he is with me.

Even as I type that I can see it’s quite a warped way of thinking so I know I need to look at it some more.

Yes - that is the same, I think it is potentially abusive behaviour but I don’t feel abused. I think that’s because I can see quite firm boundaries and tell him it’s not acceptable and he will agree, and I guess if I’m honest I feel I probably have more power in the relationship (not in a bad way I hope).
in the past it has upset me more and I have considered leaving. I guess it has died down a lot until this recent time, and I could tell that he wanted to sort it out and get past it, I think this has been key for me. Is it something you could talk about in real life to a trusted friend who has a perspective on your relationship? I guess you would have to be prepared to hear views similar to those expressed here about abuse, if you did confide in a friend.
going for a run but I will look out for further response on the thread.

Agreed. I was subjected to this kind of behaviour in a long-term relationship. Apparently my occasional tears in response to his emotional cruelty were "a very powerful weapon" that I used against him to "get my own way", even though the end result was usually me giving in out of fear as to what he would do. The abuse escalated as it often does and I became a shadow of myself.

I think this suggests projection - he fears his anxiety is impacting your son

How about - we both are sure what we said / heard is correct and we won't change each other's mind, but what do we need to do to move on? Eg, we both need to ensure son is protected / gets therapy / has a safe place to talk.

I’m fairly sure friends/ family would say our relationship is a good one. He’s one of the genuine few in our circle who is an equal parent to our DC, takes on his share of the mental load, works less hours in his career so I can work more hours developing mine and genuinely looks after us all. He makes me laugh. He’s the only person I can be truly vulnerable with and he accepts me for who I am. We genuinely love each other. We also have a long history together having been together since we were very young.

I think I struggle with the idea of throwing all of that away because a tiny bit of him is also an absolute arsehole when he is under threat.

Equally I know I can’t have someone who supposedly loves me verbally lash out and me and speak to me with such contempt regardless of the suituation or how rare it happens.

I think he is creating or has created a situation where you will not be able to express the impact of his condition or behaviour on you, which is not healthy in a relationship. That is over and above the clearly abusive behaviours you describe in terms of the gaslighting and belittling your emotions and feelings.
I don’t think this can really be excused by depression or indeed anxiety, because while the depression or anxiety may provoke the initial pushback from your DH, it’s the fact that he is not willing to talk this through like adults. No-one manages their emotions or responses perfectly all the time, but that is not the issue, it’s the fact that he is doubling down and being abusive in doing so. Do you see the distinction I am making? It’s fine for him to mishear and be upset. What is not fine is that there is no way of reconciliation here without you doing what he insists. It’s this latter part which is the abusive part.

as for it only being 1% of the time, I would suggest if you cannot have a conversation about how your husband’s condition impacts your family, then it’s a qualitative impact, rather than a quantitative one. Not sure if I am expressing that very well.

I think this is linked more to his depressive state and anxiety, ratherthan being deliberately abusive.

I know when I had a period of anxiety, I heard things in a certain way (reflecting on my thoughts and state of mind) and I cringe now when I think back to it. Our close friend suffers with depression and when at low points this is something we are aware of.

I've no idea how you alter this. Perhaps a note saying you understand how they see this but that was not your intention or meaning, you love them etc...??

Are they getting medical support for their anxiety?

This is hitting painfully close to the mark for me. thank you Jollibee for starting this thread, I haven't found the courage to do so myself. I have a very similar situation, triggered for different reasons. Situational depression, with some anxiety and paranoia thrown in, from a diagnosis by this complete amateur. I completely understand why, but struggle to see why I should be lashed out/treated as the enemy and given silent treatment etc. when he is struggling.

It's so hard. I want him to look for help, but at the moment he is very dismissive of the need, even though it's so clearly triggered by this very difficult situation. It's not quite the same, in that although I'm targeted, it's I think because I am a safe person IFKWIM, I at least don't have the situation where I'm being asked to apologise for something I didn't do to handle, or something like that. But it is still emotionally abusive to me, even if it's not doing from a place of him wanting control or a certain outcome or anything like that. Doesn't make it any easier to live with it or him though and after all this time, it's wearing me down.

So hard. For him, but sadly also for me. Ironically, I saw a doctor a few years ago because I was feeling very down about the situation and had a very helpful conversation about different things to look out for, when the balance tips from being very down into actual depression. He knows how helpful I found it, but is so far resisting looking for help himself.

I don’t know if this link will work but this video was posted on another thread recently, (different issue, ASD) but he is talking about anxiety, you might get something out of it.

Here is the link again; m.youtube.com/watch?v=8opsIXrMuzQ

If you want to resolve it but don't want to apologize for or admit to something you haven't done maybe tell him you can't remember word for word what you said (if that's the case) but you know what you meant , and that is that you were worried about the impact of son's own anxiety on his life. You could say you don't think husbands anxiety is ruining son's life, that he's a brilliant father etc etc ,,(if he is/ tries to be) and that you are sorry for any misunderstanding that you might have caused.
Of course this suggestion would only be to smooth things over with a normally reasonable and good man who is unwell, struggling and you're looking at the bigger picture for everyone's sake. If he's normally horrible then I wouldn't do this and he wouldn't deserve the compassion this offers.

Insightful thread. Thanks to everyone who participated.

@Jollibee I've not read many replies, but I've read all of your posts and this sentence stood out " I suppose even if I recognise that he can at times react in an emotionally abusive/ not ideal way, when taking into account the whole/ picture relationship does it matter?"

I agree with you. It's interesting because my husband can act in a similar way at times,and when you said what his reaction to you crying was, I have heard the same thing from my husband. And equally, if we argue, usually because we have a different view point to something, it is as though he is taking it as a personal assault on his character and becomes defensive, like he forgets I'm his wife who loves him and is on is side.

I think my husband is suffering from low level depression, and also suspect undiagnosed ASD (our son has been diagnosed and there are loads of similar traits). I worry that my husband's negative attitude (he is very glass half empty and constantly sees the danger or negatives in a situation) impacts the kids negatively, but if I even suggest this he gets really angry. (He's never been physically abusive and I don't believe he ever would).

He pointed out to me once that when I am upset I cry, and when he is upset he gets angry, because growing up, it was the only emotion that was acceptable from him as a male (he grew up in the 70's). Boys don't cry. He also wasn't shown much love and affection by his parents and lacked a lot of the support I had from my own family growing up. Sometimes I realise he is just scared and worried and sometimes a hug can help him back down and stop feeling I am against him. It can take a lot to do that when I feel angry with him and the way he is acting, but when I remember that this is his way of expressing how upset he is, a hug can show him that better than any amount of words.

So I put a lot of his behaviour down to what he was shown growing up, and it is hard to change, but spliting the family up and forcing my kids to split their time between their dad and me I believe is worse than the negative vibes he puts out in the home. I try to overcompensate for his negativity by being overly optimistic and positive (sort of my nature anyway). Our kids are teenagers now so I do talk with them about their dad's behaviour to put it into context and try to counter the effects it might have on them. (Obviously some topics are not appropriate to discuss with them, but where it impacts on them I'll talk it over with them).

What I have found is that over time my husband and seen that I am on his side and I do want what's best for him and that just because there are times when we have a different opinion it doesn't mean I am judging his character. He now apologises if he has said something unreasonable (something he never did in the early days) and I also find that something we might have disagreed about, a week or two later he is going along with as though he though that way all along!

None of this do I see as abusive towards me, it is just him being human, and struggling with the pressures of modern day life. I know I am free to leave and I have freedom to make choices in my own life, but I am also part of a partnership and so I have to consider his views and compromise at times on things that are important to me. So I totally agree with your comment - I don't see you needing to end your marriage over this issue, but obviously you need to find a resolution.

I hope you manage to sort this out soon.

I would not admit to saying something you didn't say.

I'm sorry his 'pride' is more important than the truth. That needs to be addressed quietly, using the things you've said on here and the advice you've been given.

Yes but at the time OP wasn’t representing the interaction fully. I agree she shouldn’t be in couples counseling with him.

This is an issue about filters. Every bit of information we receive has to come through our filters. Filters can be there from childhood, neurodivergence, mental health, and they can change over time. If your DH is anxious and feeling an amount of shame then he will be especially susceptible to perceived criticism. You will say something but the words have to pass through a filter to reach his brain and in that process the filter has altered the words so they fit in with what the narrative of what he already thinks. So you say “I am worried our child is also experiencing anxiety”. The filter takes those words and applies some shame and criticism (because he is already feeling shame so he hears criticism) and before the words have even reached his consciousness, they have warped into “you think my anxiety is rubbing off on our child!”. And genuinely, even if his life depended on it, he will tell you that is what he heard. Because to some extent it is! The problem is that we are at the mercy of these filters of ours and it takes a HUGE amount of self reflection to be able to question what we think we heard or saw. I’m not sure there is much you can do about this. He is unlikely to realise that his filter had played a part here. And you cannot back down and apologise for something you didn’t say.
Perhaps best to agree a stalemate and move on.

“We are never going to agree. I can’t apologise for something I know I didn’t say. I don’t think that. And I didn’t say that. I wouldn’t have said it because I don’t think it. I understand this is what you heard, or think you heard, but please understand that this is categorically not what I think. We need to put this behind us and move on now. Just know that I absolutely do not blame you in any way for child’s anxiety. I support you 100%. Let’s put this behind us please and go back to being nice”.

Or something like that.

DP also has some very skewy filters and can be incandescent with things he guarantees I’ve said. I know I haven’t. But he has a very warped reality and his filters are extreme. I can’t bring myself to apologise because I know he’s wrong. But I don’t want make an issue out of him “being wrong” as it’s not helpful. I opt for reassurance about what I think and a drive to move forward without anyone having to back down.

I don't know if this is relevant but I'llput it here just in case. It's about allowing yourself to be the emotional punching bag for a person you love who's stressed.

Growing up I let my younger sister be absolutely horrible to me as we were both in the most god-awful situation and I felt I loved her, it would help her let off steam, and I could take it. (as you may have guessed I was emotionally abused first by my parents)

However, though it may have briefly helped her in the moment, ultimately it drove us apart as she felt very guilty and lost all compassion, and therefore love, for me.

So I don't really think it's doing the marriage any good (I'm no expert!). It might be better to firmly say "No, you will not speak to me like that, I'm not taking it", every time.

As I say, I'm no expert on successful marriages, and don't know the details of anyone's individual situations.

And say it on repeat. And tell him that it has nothing to do with his inherent virtue/goodness. He just simply misheard. Let him be frosty for a while if he wants to. Don’t pander to this.

Tell you absolutely didn't say that now you've reflected a bit it is clear that his anxiety is ruining your marriage.

Honestly, you are a saint for putting up with this sort of shit op. I realise my above suggestion isn't very helpful in terms of fixing things but I'm not sure I could live with someone so difficult.

I remember some of this when I was with my ex. He would totally misinterpret something I said to the extent that I honestly had no idea what he was talking about. He would explode in a terrible rage and I'm ashamed to say that I was so scared that I 'confessed', even though I knew I hadn't said that which I was being accused of saying. He was also charming, loving, witty, great company at times. I guess that's why I stayed. But I did stop loving him before we broke up at his instigation (thank God).
I mean, OP, how he is treating you is no good. Please think carefully about what so many are saying on this thread. My ex also had depression but that's not a get out of jail free card.