Huge row with DH over misunderstanding

[Jollibee]

DH and I had a big argument over him mishearing something that I said. He then repeatedly accused me of gaslighting him/ acting like the victim - it all got quite vicious. He wants me to admit what I said and apologise for it. I know I didn’t say it. He won’t speak to me until I “admit what I did”.
Writing it down I see how childish and toxic the whole situation is. We’ve been married a long time and are usually happy. Normally I’d say he was my best friend. He’s going through a bad patch with his depression at the moment and seems generally burnt out by life. (We both are it’s been an incredibly difficult year). I don’t know what to do to resolve this now though. I suppose if he genuinely feels like I would lie and manipulate just to avoid apologising to him then it says a lot about how he sees me.

I don’t know what to do.

Does he just have anxiety/depression (for a given meaning of 'just") or could he have bipolar or a personality disorder?
I ask as I have had a similar issue with a friend in the past. Friend swore blind that someone had said something to them, was highly offended and lashed out verbally before leaving in a bad temper.
I was in the room at the time and the person didn't say what the friend insisted they had. They'd said something that you could, with a bit of reach, interpret to imply a bit of a negative take.
Turned out friend had just been diagnosed with a personality disorder and had started new medication which somehow made their mental state worse for about 6 weeks.

I’d give it 24 hours. See if it dies out or restarts.

If it flares up again I’d point out that you are now massively hurt that he thinks so little of you, that he assumes you’d lie to and gaslight him, and is giving you the cold shoulder as a result. Ask him whether he plans to carry on punishing you for something you haven’t done.

Then say he needs to take a few hours to wonder whether that is really what he believes, and what he plans to do next.

If it does die down, wait till things are calm and have the same conversation but without the punishing part. That your relationship isn’t going to survive much of this from him.

Yes quite regularly and he does stay all of those things. That’s why I am so confused. When I’m sick he is great - just takes over all the things I do without complaint. When I say no to things we discuss it like adults and find common ground. It is “only” when he feels like his character is somehow under attack that he reacts disproportionately. And by that I mean the tone and way of speaking to me gets incredibly nasty. And he isn’t prepared to listen to my side of things.

You're doing the right thing trusting your own perception and judgement. I recommend always writing these incidents down so you never doubt yourself.

I don't know what it means for the marriage, and I'm sorry it's happening.

Not to excuse him but as a possible explanation, based on my quite long life experience of these things, it looks to me like both his depression and his paranoia that people close to him are working against him, are probably based on how he was treated in childhood.

He needs to examine this tendency and get really clear that it's different with you, you love him and you're on his side.

Unfortunately we can't impose that kind of self-examination on people, they have to want to do it.

Good men do NOT behave like this.

They are not willing to so easily think the worst of you.

If I had a £ for every time I read about "genuinely good man" on MN.
I think you should have a good long hard think, because I am married a long time and what you describe has no part of a good healthy loving marriage.

I wouldn't dream of ever apologising for something I hadn't done.

How fxxked up is your marriage if you feel thats the only way to calm him down.

Call Womens aid because you are confused and need support.

This really stood out for me as being true, not just in this situation but all of the times we argue really:

He is projecting his own fear and (to a certain extent perhaps) his self loathing for his anxiety and depression into your mouth. He does fear he is ruining your son’s life. And so he is ready internally to hear you say it. He is thinking it and he thinks you are too.

But I suppose what is also true is that if he can’t see it I can’t make him. I need to think a bit more about what this means.

I think it would be fair to say to him that you don't believe his anxiety is ruining the children's lives but that his stonewalling and gaslighting does create an environment that will make them miserable. Make it clear that he is the architect of this particular situation and only he has the power to resolve it.

If his depression IS affecting DC life then DH needs to know it and DO something about it - just accusing you of saying it to him is totally redundant.

I’ve had this twice before with a partner (who was anxious and depressed and controlling). It was awful

Well to be fair...if he reacts abusively (and it is a form of abuse to ignore/stonewall someone to manipulate them into the behaviour/response that they want) then his misinterpretation of what you said might be correct - even though you didn't say that.

Something to think about.

He's being a bully.

This is abuse. He is the one gaslighting you. I would tell him that he is 100% wrong and if he doesn't apologise to you that you may have to consider filing for divorce. It may just shock him out of it. Do NOT back down!

He sounds awful. I’d be tempted to say that you didn’t say it but you do believe it, now he’s mentioned it! Surely most people in normal, healthy relationships see the best in their partner, though? If I wasn’t sure what DH had said and something sounded off, I wouldn’t automatically think he’d said something awful to me. That’s just not right. So, fake scenario but imagine I think DH has said I’m a slag. I’ve misheard him saying he’s going for a fag… It would be very odd for him to say the first sentence to me and I would be running through other things he might have said in my head, not for one minute thinking he’d have called me a slag. It just wouldn’t happen! Why does he think that’s even something you’d say to him? It really can’t be nice, as you say, for you to always think the worst of you.

*for him

Once a year or less? It shouldn’t happen at all. It’s abuse. I’m sorry that’s very hard for you to hear. I know how confusing it must be for you but you need to see it for what it is. You have admitted the way he spoke to you was abusive. Continuing to stonewall you is abusive. He is gaslighting you, which is abusive. He is bullying you which is abusive. His behaviour is abusive. He is using DARVO on you which is abusive.

www.domesticshelters.org/articles/identifying-abuse/explaining-darvo-deny-attack-reverse-victim-amp-offender

Please read the book I linked before. It’s free. And you will find him in those pages. It will help you see what abuse comes in many forms, is a cycle not permanent and is all about power and control. This is what he’s doing right now. It’s all about emotionally beating you into submission so he can, “win”.

He sounds vile OP. Your son deserves better. What sort of example is he setting to him if he treats you like that.
Is he having MH treatment? If not why not?

Op why dont you point out that if you had actual said that.. and that you felt that was true you would have no need to deny it. If that's genuinely what you was thinking then you would own it but you don't have that thought , you dont for one minute think this is the case and that genuinely you have been mis heard. I also agree with another poster who said you shouldn't have to 'admit' something in order to access to communication with your partner. For every thing he is accusing you of.. well he's doing got his own red flags showing...

There seem to be two, related, things going on. Firstly, yes, people who grew up in families where arguments were a war in which the enemy had to be defeated and were mocked for any sign of tears and weakness can go revert into this childhood survival mode when feeling most vulnerable and threatened. It's not conscious, it's not cool, obviously, which is why he doesn't do it 99% of the time. It is something he seriously needs to address but sounds like he's not in that place at this very moment. Secondly, yes, he is in the pit of shame and does feel that he is negatively impacting his child. What help is getting or open to getting for his mental health? If he won't get help, then you have some serious thinking to do.

Is he getting any help or treatment for his depression?

I grew up with an adult (not parental figure but a parents partner) who would lash out and be truly horrible at the slightest whiff of anyone questioning their character. Ironically they also regularly dolled out upsetting commentary on other people’s characters but could never see the faults in their own. They would also mishear and misunderstand what someone else was saying and unleash a verbal attack, much like your DH is doing. If you displayed any emotion during these verbal attacks they would mock you for crying and say it’s an easy “out”. This all sounds very similar to your DH OP. It is a nasty trait and depression or no depression it doesn’t excuse it. I would tackle this for the sake of your son as much as your own mental health. Waiting for the next onslaught of behaviour like this is no way to live. He needs to be called out.

His depression is well managed usually. It’s been a relentless few months though and he is struggling more than usual. This does not excuse it in anyway I know.

I think it's the depression. I have lived with this. He probably does truly believe that you said that. My partner does the same. I think you need to take some time for yourself and allow a bit of time to pass. Don't apologise for saying something that you didn't say. He probably needs more help with his depression than he is getting at the moment x

OP I think the response from joliefolle is very helpful. I can relate as my DP has done this in the past and in fact it occurred again recently in similar circumstances- a misunderstanding that flared up and took us both by surprise, but related to something he’s very upset about (a close relative being terminally ill). I suppose the difference is that he did apologise and could reflect on his behaviour - he’s not the best of communicators and I have had to teach him to do this over the years. But I certainly relate to what you are describing- lashing out when feeling you’re being accused of being a bad person - this is how he describes it too. In his case I think it’s definitely somewhere in his upbringing. No answers really but I think I can understand. Like you I do not feel oppressed or abused, my DP is quite meek and mild normally but these situations have occurred over the years.

His anxiety may not be ruining his son’s life, but it’s clearly creating a very toxic atmosphere.
You are walking on eggshells and he is bullying you.
Having anxiety and/or depression does not give you permission to be a bully.
I gave into someone like this once, agreed I’d said something I hadn’t. It was then brought up again again and even though I’m out of the situation now, it still makes me sad that I gave in.
He has no right to treat you like this at any time. It doesn’t matter how great he is the rest of the time.
@TipsyJoker gives great advice on this!

This sounds very familiar although he doesn’t give negative commentary on other peoples character. There’s a lot on this thread I need to think about. I think it probably does stem from awful self esteem and it’s how he feels about himself. It doesn’t make it any easier to deal with and doesn’t make it right. We have been together since we were kids and are each other’s first/ only relationship. I think that makes it harder to know how to navigate.

Don't admit to something you didn't say.

Tell him that you're upset he would think you could be so unkind and you'll have to agree to disagree.

My dh accused me of calling him a pain in the neck.
I'd slept funny and had a pain in my neck.
We'd had words earlier and so he heard what he expected I suppose.
Tbf we laughed afterwards.