Huge row with DH over misunderstanding

[Jollibee]

DH and I had a big argument over him mishearing something that I said. He then repeatedly accused me of gaslighting him/ acting like the victim - it all got quite vicious. He wants me to admit what I said and apologise for it. I know I didn’t say it. He won’t speak to me until I “admit what I did”.
Writing it down I see how childish and toxic the whole situation is. We’ve been married a long time and are usually happy. Normally I’d say he was my best friend. He’s going through a bad patch with his depression at the moment and seems generally burnt out by life. (We both are it’s been an incredibly difficult year). I don’t know what to do to resolve this now though. I suppose if he genuinely feels like I would lie and manipulate just to avoid apologising to him then it says a lot about how he sees me.

I don’t know what to do.

With respect, those people are not in your relationship and don’t see him behaving like this. You have to look at his behaviour not what other people may or may not think. You have been together a long time so I’m sure the idea that he’s abusive is very unsettling for you and you’re probably codependent. But this behaviour is abusive and the only amount of abusive behaviour which is acceptable in any relationship is none.

What do you think his outbursts are teaching your children? What is he modelling to them? Is it healthy for them to see Dad go off on mum and punish her by stonewalling and mocking her feelings? Maybe his MH is having a negative impact on the children as well. Why wouldn’t it? Living with someone with MH issues can be draining and difficult to navigate. MH is no excuse for abusive behaviour. Plenty of people suffer with depression and don’t become abusive to their spouses. He is CHOOSING to behave this way. He is CHOOSING to punish you. He is doing that because it’s all about power and control. That’s not a partnership. That’s abusive. I’m sorry you’re going through this.

Is there a history of dishonesty and gaslighting that has played a part in this misunderstanding/ his inability to trust you didn’t say it?

Do you have e children together?

Oh you do have children together

did they witness / overhear this exchange?

it all sounds like a very very unhappy and unpleasant family environment atm

it all got quite vicious

what does that look like in reality?

I’m fairly sure friends/ family would say our relationship is a good one.

i doubt your children would

in any event, how on earth is it relevant what family and friends think about your relationship…. Or at least the relationship that is conducted not behind closed doors

Did they visit you during your week in hospital? Why was she even at your home whilst you were in hospital? She has a key?

When he is in a good patch, doing some of the great, equal behaviour he usually does, book a conversation with him.

Tell him that you love him and have been so concerned with supporting him that you’ve allowed some atypical behaviour from him to slide.
Say that on reflection it isn’t good for your marriage for you to continue to do that, because it erodes your wellbeing and leaves you both less able to support him and resentful about treatment of you.
Ask what he wants to do about that.

If he’s as invested in the family as you are, he will address it. He’ll get help, he’ll apologise, he’ll know there are some accusations he must never, ever make- that you are weaponising your tears, gaslighting him etc.

Wrong thread!

You say that this extreme reaction and abuse happens once a year. If I made you a cup of tea and said that it contained 1% shit, would you drink it?

OP, you say, “he isn’t prepared to listen to my side of things”. So write him a letter. The advantage of writing it down is that you can put your side calmly and rationally without it turning into a big argument. You need to tell him how upsetting you found it that he was so unsympathetic when you were unhappy and that accusing you of “turning on the waterworks” was unfair - you cried because you care. I agree with others who say don’t lie - repeat that you didn’t say what he thought, and if necessary, reassure him that your DC is OK for now, but he won’t be if a toxic atmosphere is created in the house by his sulks and refusal to discuss things. If he refuses to read a letter if you write one, then you can justly tell him he’s being unreasonable - but you have nothing to lose by giving it a go.

I really do not see this man reading a letter from the OP

Absolutely what @pikkumyy77 says! He's projecting his fear into your mouth and making it your fault so he doesn't have to face it.

Contempt is one of the greatest indicators of divorce OP. I’d be really clear with your DH that this behaviour is totally unacceptable regardless of how threatened he feels. It would be a deal breaker for me but only you know how you feel in the situation. Abuse is abuse regardless of what percentage of the time he behaves like that.

You pushed a button, something he feels insecure and defensive about.

Agree. You are being bullied into admitting something you never said, so that you become the despicable villain and he is the poor victim.

And for what its worth his depression, if he's not doing anything about it, will impact the children.

You've offered an apology. Let him sulk.

As to whether its worth throwing away a good marriage, only you know the answer and whether this is a temporary blip, which will improve when circumstances do, or if its something that has been brewing for sometime and shows no sign of improving.

If it were me, I'd have to consider overall that If he doesn't seek help and try to resolve his issues or meet you halfway - and the situation continues/gets worse, its more a question of how much you are prepared to put up with and for how long, especially if there is no will or co-operation on his side to improve things. And because he's casting you as the unspeakable baddie, it makes it difficult to be in a co-operative role and pull together. It might help you deal with this and his behaviour if you have someone to speak to, that may help you clarify what the real issues are and how to deal with it. At the moment there doesn't seem much point in couples counselling as any honest things you say may set him off.

I thought this was spot on and it also reminded me of a situation I was in with a colleaue (interestingly I suspect she is autistic). She asked to speak to me privately and told me that she was very offended and upset that I had called her "a bit of an idiot" in a team meeting. She said that it might be what I think but that it was embarrassing to be called it in front of the whole team.

I was rather shocked as I had not called her this and was trying to work out what I had said that she had misheard. She was adament I had said it. I told her I completely understood why she felt the way she did if that is what she believed I had said, but it was not what I thought I had said and was certainly not was I was thinking! I also told her I thought it would be unfair and unprofessional, so not something I would consider acceptable to say at work.

I could remember the conversation and what was going through my mind was how she was the disciplined one of the team when it came to resisting cakes/chocolates in the office (it was pre-team meeting chat about all the chocolates that were knocking about). So I tried to assure her that whilst I couldn't remember the exact words I said, it was not that and I was not thinking that. She would not be persuaded otherwise (and I didn't try too hard as I didn't want her to think I was dismissing her, calling her a liar etc) but we both resolved to ask other members of the team what they had heard.

The team member I spoke to was adament I had said no such thing, and the person she asked said he couldn't remember what was said but would have known if it was that, and it was not! I'm not sure if she really believed any of us, but it did tell me that I needed to be more careful in my interactions with her as she was obviously feeling undervalued and that I had that opinion of her. She was hearing my words through her filter of thinking I thought she was an idiot, so that is what she heard.

I’ve suffered with depression and anxiety, I still have no so good days but generally ok now. My DH was obviously affected by it, and because I didn’t want to be that person who dragged him down I sought professional help.
Your DH needs the help of a professional, if he refuses that path he’s being selfish and using his depression as a weapon against you. I can see why he blew up if he thinks you said what he thinks, however he’s clearly not prepared to see that he got it wrong, he doesn’t want to, he’s enjoying the affect his abuse is having on you, it gives him power. The silent treatment is simply another in the long list of abusive behaviour.
I’d write him a letter outlining how much you love him, but that you are not prepared to stand accused of something you haven’t said and if the abuse of silent treatment continues there’s nothing you can do about it. Then let him get on with it, if you apologise you’ll leave yourself open to further abuse, basically saying his behaviour is acceptable, and it’s not. You cannot admit or apologise for something you haven’t said, it’s crazy!
Go out and get on with your life, don’t let him see you miserable and act normal around the house, if he’s see’s you’re unhappy you’re basically feeding him.

“even if I recognise that he can at times react in an emotionally abusive/ not ideal way, when taking into account the whole/ picture relationship does it matter?”

Have a think about what you just said. Would you tell your children to accept some abuse in their adult relationships as long as it was just now and then and not all the time? Would you? Would you tell a friend that there’s an acceptable quota of abuse that their partner can enact on them?

I would 100% not pander to him. Don't give this any airspace.I would write him a letter telling him you love him. You actually said x. If he heard y then that's unfortunate but you didn't say it as you don't think it. Tell him the way he is carrying on us unacceptable, that you love him and support him but won't engage with this behaviour. Then carry on as normal ignoring the fact he's being a child and just live your life. If he wants to talk fine but I suspect he won't. If he's not speaking to you- well it's annoying but he won't keep it up forever.

DH and I had a chat this afternoon. I’ve told him that I didn’t say it and that I’m sorry if he thinks I did. I’m not sure he 100% believes me, which is hurtful. We have agreed an uneasy stalemate position I suppose. He has apologised for his “turning on the waterworks” comment and agreed it was nasty. I said I could see how what I said was insensitive and why he took it badly but that I couldn’t apologise for what he wanted to me to apologise for because that’s not how I believed it happened. We are talking but I think there are hurt feelings still on both sides.

OP, you have come here to get other people's perspectives. Who, other than you, can/does he talk to? You say his depression is generally well-managed but he's in a a particularly bad way at the moment. Who can he talk to?

I think you’re in danger of being influenced by the replies on here into thinking far too much into this.
He's depressed, he thought he heard something very upsetting relating to his depression and his son, imagine how that has hit him to the very core and he’s feeling devastated inside.
Is it possible to talk and unpick the conversation with him in a calm manner, explaining that you didn’t say those words but you’re sorry he had the perception that you did.
Every marriage has ups and downs and stubborn arguments at times, it doesn’t mean someone is being abusive. I think there’s far too much nit picking at the little things on here, always looking to call someone abusive when all they’ve had is a normal reaction to something.
Don't underestimate his mental health, it’s not an excuse, it is a reason, he is obviously at this moment feeling that he’s failed his family.

edit: I see you have had a talk, it’s a good step forward, I hope you can both move on now.

"he genuinely thinks I said it though?"
You didn't say it, he knows, but it was implied.
It is however actually the truth.

@Jollibee

First off, never apologize for something you didn't do. To them, it's admitting you did it.

Secondly, I think you need to realize that over the years we fall into patterns of behaviour to 'cope' with our spouse's unacceptable behaviour in order to limit occurrences. This happens so slowly we don't realize it, but yet it still stifles our own lives and emotional/mental health. So I suggest that you take some quiet time and evaluate your own behaviour around him. Do you 'walk on eggshells'? This can mean avoiding certain subjects and refraining from saying that you don't like something they do or say. Taking or not taking certain actions to avoid outbursts. Apologizing for 'perceived' slights. Always considering this reaction to something before making a decision. Directing your DC 'away' from doing or saying certain things. Our 'conscious' thinks that all is well and peaceful in our home. But our subconscious is screaming 'Be true to yourself!!". Quite a mental conflict.

Again, this takes quiet and hard thought because these habits are often so ingrained in us that we really don't notice them. But that doesn't mean they don't impact us. They stifle your own emotions and inhibit your freedom to live without emotional 'fear'.

"I said I could see how what I said was insensitive"

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this. You didn't say what he said you said. So why would you have, in essence, admit you said it? * *