Huge row with DH over misunderstanding

[Jollibee]

DH and I had a big argument over him mishearing something that I said. He then repeatedly accused me of gaslighting him/ acting like the victim - it all got quite vicious. He wants me to admit what I said and apologise for it. I know I didn’t say it. He won’t speak to me until I “admit what I did”.
Writing it down I see how childish and toxic the whole situation is. We’ve been married a long time and are usually happy. Normally I’d say he was my best friend. He’s going through a bad patch with his depression at the moment and seems generally burnt out by life. (We both are it’s been an incredibly difficult year). I don’t know what to do to resolve this now though. I suppose if he genuinely feels like I would lie and manipulate just to avoid apologising to him then it says a lot about how he sees me.

I don’t know what to do.

I think it’s tricky seeing that while you didn’t say it, part of you does think it. Our brains go everywhere and I think you are being incredibly honest.

Kids could well have picked up on the atmosphere but you said it doesn’t happen often so it doesn’t automatically mean they are now broken from it. It’s about how that see you recover (if that’s what you choose to do).

@Creameded no our DC are the most important thing to both of us. DH accepts he need to see his GP again on Monday. He’s also apologised for his behaviour and explained to me that he reacted so strongly because it’s a sore spot which I can understand. I’ve told him that there can be no sulking in our house as you are correct it isn’t fair to DC even if I think they haven’t noticed.

This conversation has made me think more about things. And I will continue that thinking. Ultimately I do think DH is a great Dad and most of the time a fantastic husband. I think when his mental health is bad he sometimes reacts to how he feels without thinking and verbally lashes out at me. And that reactive side needs to change because regardless of how bad he’s feeling it’s never acceptable to do that.

DH is very socially anxious for example and will do what he can to avoid being in a big crowd/ talking to people he doesn’t know. I worry that DC will learn that people are something to be afraid of.

From my side I know I had a tendency to do “worst case disaster planing”. Ie. assume the worst is going to happen and make sure I have a plan on how I’d deal with if it does. I’d love to be more laidback because I think people who go with the flow are generally happier. I worry that DC will pick up on this as well.

This sounds like a very highly strung and anxious family environment and your children are absorbing this and your son is beginning to display anxiety himself

it is disturbing to read and more so by your resolute determination not to see how this man and their parents relationship is impacting them

I wish you all the best op

Thank you. Yes I think you are correct. Part of me does worry about it. I didn’t say it but I’m guessing DH picked up on the fact I at some level think it. We have discussed this today as well.

Good woman OP.
I am your side and that is why I am pushing you to not revert to a business as usual position.

It needs to be a fxxk it, this is NOT acceptable and we need to rethink this marriage if YOU think I will accept you emotionally abusing and belittling me, and creating a sour emotionally damaging atmosphere in the house.

The children come first and if you can't control yourself and your shit, we need to look at separating and co parenting.

Let him know that you are thinking that way, that YOU will take action to protect your children.

He thinks he comes first and you will ndver say enough.

He needs to know that he has crossed a line and that now means you are going to start thinking about what was previously unthinkable.

I mean it very kindly but mental health issues in teens are rife.
YOU do not want to be dealing with it in a decades time and you be told your husbands behaviour was a contributing factor.

I think what bound me and DH together in the beginning is we both had very difficult childhoods and in different ways this has left us both highly strung. I don’t want my children to have the same story. They do know they are loved and they are safe. I’m not unaware or not listening to the things you mention. I just need to find the best way through.

"I had a tendency to do “worst case disaster planning”. Ie. assume the worst is going to happen and make sure I have a plan on how I’d deal with if it does."

its definitely not the same as

"very socially anxious for example and will do what he can to avoid being in a big crowd/ talking to people he doesn’t know."

I'm not sure that having a plan to deal with things that go wrong such a bad thing? It's what I do if we are going on holiday. I check and check the flights/transfers/accommodation, organise the insurance -

You've got children, so of course you want to have a back up plan and not leave everything to chance. I don't think that is something you should feel bad about. It makes you a responsible parent.

I've been recently nagging DC about making sure they have adequate holiday insurance as they thought it was for lost luggage, not realising its for medical insurance.

Do you think you assume the worst because you are living with someone who is very depressed and can kick off, so you are more aware of making sure things run smoothly to prevent this?

His social avoidance is more serious than advance planning and prep IMHO. It's more likely to set a poor example. Your planning however, just shows them how to take care of themselves and having back up plans is no bad thing.

@Creameded the thing that keeps me up at night is poor mental health in teens. I’ve seen it in my own family and I’m terrified that it’s being passed on down so many generations. I know I need to protect against it where I can. I am confident DH will do what I need him to do (GP/ counselling) on Monday. I’m less confident that it will fix things for ever and he’ll never slip or revert to taking things out on me ever again. I guess this is what I need to talk to him about. I don’t expect him to behave perfectly all of the time. I know I don’t. But a base level of respect I think I should be expecting all of the time. And I think acting as if you hate your spouse and speaking to them in a really nasty tone goes below that base level.

I really think this thread has helped me realise it doesn’t matter how infrequently it happens or how good he is the rest of the time. It shouldn’t be happening at all.

You had said you are more "fiery" on a day to day basis, that you can spiral, that you have a perfectionist streak, that you are both highly strung... who do/can you talk to (other than MN)? Who does/can your husband talk to (other than you)?

I have always been like it since I was a child because quite often then the worse did happen. As a tactic I needed it then but I don’t need it now. I do need to let it go a bit

Agree with @platter being organised and a pre planner is a useful life skill.
I don't like being caught out so make sure I'm not.
That is not something that causes anxiety in children.

It does make me the person my young adult children call when shit gets real, because they know they will get good advice and that I am unflappable in a crisis.

This. Op you haven’t said either on this thread or to your husband that you definitely do not think what he heard you say.

do you?

OP, your instincts are good.
Lean into them.
You can't change the past, but you can help today and prepare for the future.

Get some therapy for your anxious child.
Do it now. It will be money well spent.

It will normalise therapy for him, give him coping skills to help manage his anxiety ahead of the teen years.

It might only take a few sessions to make all the difference for your child to find the words to verbalise how he feels in a safe place.

@joliefolle I have found out really insightful on this thread so thank you. We have both had periods of individual counselling over the years, other than we have a small group of close knit shared friends. We probably both need to find other outlets if I’m honest

@Billydavey if I’m honest I do worry that his anxiousness is being passed onto our DC. I worry the same about myself. I think I have mentioned that on the thread.

@Creameded thank you for your advice and we have already been down this avenue for DC. We are both pretty hot on counselling anyway having both used it at various points in our lives. School think DC has neurodiversities and we are on the long waiting list for assessment. It could explain a lot about DH as well as they are very, very similar in a lot of ways.

I expect he heard you saying he was ruining your children’s lives because this is a fear that plays on his mind.

Give him time to calm down then reassure him he’s a great father and tell him you’d never say something like that to him.

I honestly think you’ve accidentally touched a raw nerve.

As @Creameded said, its a useful life skill.

You learned it as a child and it worked. I mean this kindly, why are you apologising for it?
Your issue was that your DH insists that you said something he found insulting even though you know you didn't and he's been cold shouldering as a result.

It feels as though ( and reading it as a stranger on the internet) that because you were explaining one of his faults... you felt obliged to draw attention to one of yours and also to apologise for doing it. I point this out because it comes across as you feeling really guilty and in the wrong and needing to apologise for things.

But, and this needs repeating... You didn't do anything wrong, you didn't say what he accuses you of saying, you've kept trying to communicate and explain things to him during the cold shouldering, he hasn't really come round and when explaining it to us you are offering up areas where you may not be perfect.

I am not criticising you OP and hope you don't take this the wrong way, but it comes across as you feeling that you are in the wrong all the time. And I have to wonder if that is because you are frequently placed at the wrong end of an argument. Which I think is a shame because it sounds to me that you are trying very hard to look after your family and you ought to be able to share some worries about your son's anxiety without your DH kicking off.

Well, we're all just random strangers on the internet projecting our own histories and interpretations onto the OP. So, from my particular position... A small group of close knit shared friends is such a treasure to have in life. However, the fact that such friends are often virtually like family (but also with their own priorities and stuff going on) means, yes, some other outlets might really help you both. It sounds, and I may well have got the wrong end of the stick, like life is viewed as something a of a battle for both of you and that you are both very anxious about trying to make it less so for your kids and feeling shit about not being able to do that and worrying about your feared role in repeating all the things you never wanted for your own kids etc. Sometimes you have to remind yourselves that you are full individuals with your own needs, perspectives, quirks, defences, dreams etc. that need acknowleding in order to help you remember what the real benefit is of you all operating as a team.

@joliefolle You have really managed to sum up exactly how I feel and how I suspect DH feels 100% of the time.

I also think because of our friendship group is so shared I wouldn’t feel comfortable talking to them about DH’s mental health for example. Because they know him and it would feel disloyal somehow.

DH thinks I said that his anxiety was ruining our children’s lives. That’s not word for word what was said but the jist of it

so if the gist of it…. You should have said “well I didn’t say the exact words you think I did, but yes - that is essentially what I’m saying”

it is as though you have spent the day denying those exact words but the fact is… you do basically think it.

Do these close shared friends have no idea that your husband has suffered and continues to suffer from quite debilitating depression?

I wouldn't be surprised if you (both) didn't find that if you opened up to shared friends a little that you would find they had something similar going on that they also felt reluctant to share because they felt 'disloyal' or that they would be a downer or that it would be something that would be "a topic of conversation" which feels desperately cringe etc. Testing the water by sharing a little bit and seeing how that goes might help. At the same time, an additional outlet for you both and as individuals could definitely help.

Agree with this!
He’s been an absolute prat but within 24hrs they’ve talked about it, apologised and are now talking again.

Yep thinking some more about this, it’s pretty disingenuous of the op to try and make out her husband was totally out of order because she “didn’t use those exact words” but he herd and understood exactly what she said and meant…