Clare's law request

[olivietolivie]

Has anybody ever done a Clare's law request, been invited to a police station for disclosure and it not be a deal breaker? I've got an appointment next week and it just feels strange continuing to be 'normal' around the guy when I imagine it's all going to end next week. Or is it? Would appreciate some views as I feel a bit muddled.

For me, there’s enough in this disclosure to call time on this with him.

This is really alarning as you are putting yourself in danger. You need to be told about his past from the authorities not your BF version!

Because youve had months of nice so you will be reluctant to walk away from abuse at that point.

just like you are now.

Because if they were awful and abusive from the get go- they'd never have a partner would they!

It's like the old boiling frog analogy- put a frog in boiling water and it will jump right out. Put a frog in cold water, and slowly turn the heat up- the frog won't escape. By the time it realises it's in trouble, it's too weak to jump out.

As I mentioned, my ex’s report of his previous relationship was that his ex was unstable and malicious, and ran screaming out of their house “to make him look bad” in front of the neighbours. Fast forward a year or so and I was the one in fear. When the police attended some information came over the radio that a similar incident had happened before. I know mine was real and so I have no reason to doubt the previous woman’s account (any more).

Another ex told me about his crazy ex and then a few years down the line there was I feeling crazy. That one was emotionally abusive and a gaslighter. These men tell on themselves. Wanting to be a cool girlfriend “not like the other girls”- no, I had no boundaries around what I wouldn’t accept!- meant I was sorry for them and took their word at face value. Twice!! Like a fool.

@olivietolivie i think some do it because they don’t like women, or respect us, so they think it’s fine. Some do it to bully and get power. Some do it because they have disordered personalities. Sometimes all these are true. Have you read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft? Very eye opening.

(edit - quoted wrong post, meant to quote you asking what abusive men get out of it)

The best explanation I have ever read is in a book that's often recommended here, "Why does he do that" by Lundy Bancroft. You can download it for free online - just Google it and you'll find the website. It's honestly a total eye opener that makes so much sense, written by a man who spent his career working with abusive men and their victims. The point that really struck me in the book was that - it's not about feelings, it's about thoughts. We so often fall into the trap of thinking "oh, he just has such big feelings, he just needs to channel them more appropriately", when actually it's his underlying beliefs which cause the problem - beliefs which boil down to a sense of entitlement to control. Once you've seen it, you can't unsee it.

E.g. imagine you were upset because you thought your boyfriend was getting up to things you didn't approve of with his friends, and on his computer. You might be upset, angry, you might leave him. What you probably wouldn't do is feel entitled to film his friends or ransack his PC deleting his files. An abuser thinks they are entitled to do anything if they consider that you have slighted them. They might not even have the self-awareness to realise that's not normal. I have heard men say things like "Well, she did X, so of course I did Y" or "Well, his girlfriend did X, so of course he did Y" - not necessarily instances of abuse per se - and I'm just sitting there open-jawed thinking "WTF? Why "of course"?! That's nuts!". These are men who otherwise may seem/be perfectly pleasant and reasonable, but have a massive blind spot regarding what it means to respect another person. At the extreme end of the scale, you will read about men in the news who feel justified in having killed their wife because she did something "wrong".

I don't think most abusive men think "Hee hee, first I'll pretend to be nice, then bam! After six months, I'll start being nasty!". They just don't respect other people, especially women, as autonomous beings, and they feel entitled to use any means necessary to control or have vengeance on those who bruise their egos. They have also learnt that they need to lay on the charm in order to form the initial relationship.

Look up covert narcissism as well. I know the word narcissism gets thrown around a lot, but reading about covert narcissistic is helpful in making sense of men who seem sweet and humble, yet also have a dark side that lashes out.

Absolutely this

Why?

Why would you take any risks when the CL disclosure shows an established pattern of behaviour? He has only disclosed some stuff to you - so he is controlling the narrative about himself by a) disclosing some things which he has explained away but b) has consciously chosen not to disclose the weirder stuff which cannot be explained away - deleting files and photographing his partners friends.

@olivietolivie WHY are you trying to minimise this? HOW will you explain this to social services in a few years given that you chose not to heed warnings? HOW will you explain this to your daughter?

WHY is this man more important than your child?

Just because he says the allegations are false doesn't mean he's telling the truth. There are many reasons that dv allegations aren't taken further including the victim of the abuse being so mentally destroyed by them that they believe them when the abuser says that if they drop the charges it will never happen again & they believe them, also that alot of police forces are beyond terrible at investigating dv and fail the victims often with catastrophic results. You have to ask yourself is this relationship really worth even taking that risk that he's an abuser. In my opinion no relationship is worth that risk when there's such a huge red flag over it. Never ever think that if he is an abuser that it wouldn't happen to you aswell either, the hitting doesn't just start, they grind your down first to the point where you feel there's no way out & remember the abuse doesn't just have to be physical either, abusers can abuse you in so many other ways. If I was you I'd walk away while I still can.

’there’s so much pressure on this thread’ - That is sad to read. Sorry that you see it like that. None of us posting on here have any other feelings than horror of what you are about to experience if you don’t stop seeing this man. What you see as pressure is nothing of the sort. It is loving concern from many women to another woman. You presumably came on here to gain advice and support. You’ve had that in spades.

Remember that many women posting on here have experienced abuse. Others have spent their careers working with victims of abuse - so the advice you’re receiving sadly comes from experience.

I suspect you’ll feel pressure of a different kind from that man if you choose to stay with him. It’s your choice to decide for yourself what you wish to do. I don’t think you should be making that choice for your child. You might want to think about some support or counselling to help you make the right choice. Contact Wonen’s Aid. I wish you all the very best.

He could have filmed her friends because she said she was out with him and he was proving she wasn't - not everything is black and white.

Deleting documents, she could have had photos of him he didn't want her to have or could have been his documents on her laptop/tablets - again not everything black and white

It could have been one of those relationships where they thrive on drama and actually don't like each other.

You know what to look out for, no charges where ever brought, just be cautious

He could have filmed her friends because she said she was out with [them] and he was proving she wasn't - and you think that's a reasonable action?

could have been his documents on her laptop/tablets - so you think she may have reported to the police that she'd copied his files without permission and he deleted them from her device? Not only that, but the police considered his actions threatening enough that they made a Clare's Law disclosure.

Looks like you could do with a fresh set of boundaries, too, @wineandagoodbook.

If you don't have a proper understanding of domestic abuse you really shouldn't comment on threads like this, as this sort of advice can be very damaging.

These were not the only examples of his abuse that were disclosed, they are the ones that the OP didn't know about. She didn't know about them because they are the examples which would have tangible proof, so he didn't tell her about them. He got in first with his disclosures so that when she found out about them from someone else, she's less likely to believe the actual version because he has already told her voluntarily. He minimised his behaviour and gave her a sanitised version, so by the time she found out about the worse behaviour it doesn't seem like such a big leap from what he told her.

On a separate point, even if they were "as bad as each other" (which is another thing that people who don't have any real understanding of how domestic abuse works say), it still doesn't actually excuse his behaviour. It's not ok to act in abusive ways just because someone else is. If his response to not liking someone else's behaviour is to act in abusive ways, then he is not someone to be in a relationship with.

OP, I know it's already been suggested but I really would recommend reading Why Does He Do That whatever you decide to do. If (as I really hope) you stop seeing him, you will have had a lucky escape, and it's important to recognise the signs and patterns of this behaviour so it doesn't happen again. Good luck x

He could have used her laptop and had stuff stored on there, had an argument and then he went on without her permission and deleted them.

I am entitled to my opinion based on experience

He could have tripped and accidentally deleted them too, but I doubt the police would have made a CL disclosure about it. I would really urge you learn more about domestic abuse, how it works, and how it presents, even if it's uncomfortable for you.

I've seen this where the woman was the abuser, reported him for stuff he didn't do, goaded him to try and get a responses, gaslighting him and he came off as the bad one, and she never followed through on pressing charges, she was manipulative and controlling, I witnessed a lot of her behaviour as she was a family member, she laughed about it.

I'm sorry you don't agree with my opinion, but I'm speaking from experience.

And yes, I do first hand have experience of domestic abuse

she never followed through on pressing charges

It's the police/CPS who decide whether to proceed with charges of domestic abuse, not the alleged victim.

You're talking shit.

This thread has made me think of a relationship from a few years ago.

He told me his ex used to cry everyday. A few months later it was me crying. Every single day.

It was never physical so don’t let his disclosure give you a false sense of security.

You're speaking from one experience. Me, and a lot of the people on this thread, have seen abusive men pretend that their victim was the abuser, pretend that they were reported maliciously, and minimise what they've done.

The problem with speaking solely from your own experience is that your views will be coloured by that one event, and you end up ignoring pertinent facts. That is why I recommend you learn factual information about abuse, so the patterns of behaviour displayed by abusers become much clearer, and you're able to look at situations like this with clarity, rather than emotion.

Backing up how awful police are at prosecuting. I was sexually assaulted in my sleep and had an admission and apology message from him. When I reported it the police said “it seems like he’s suffered enough” and then said that even if he was found guilty at court nothing would happen, so what was the point going through? They told me it wasn’t worth my time pursuing and urged me to drop the whole thing so the police could focus on “important crimes.” I felt it was important as he could have done this before or again. Not to mention the basic fact of how bad it messed me up

I made a complaint to this female officer’s supervisor for the way she spoke to me and how it was handled. He decided to send it to the court, who took it on without question. He was sentenced to 1 year in prison and 10 years on the sex offenders register. 3 other women came forward when it was announced he was in jail. One ex girlfriend contacted me with strong evidence of DV (he had strangled her) but she never wanted to go to the police as she didn’t want her life and name to be forever known by what happened to her. A burden I do have to carry.

The police are categorically terrible at protecting women. This was SA but DV cases are just the exact same. I’ve seen men accused by rape by 6 different women get waved off with “well there’s just not enough hard evidence” and he’s still walking around today, loudly declaring how he was false accused and not to believe the stories. Well, I’ve held 2 those woman as they sob their heart out in the dead of night because of what he’s done to them.

Your relationship is not that bloody old. Hear the warnings. This is a risk not worth taking. If their relationship was mutually toxic, he still allowed himself to get to that stage and retaliate. Mutually toxic still means he was toxic. Why would you wait around for signs when you can find someone without any of the warnings written down clearly in black in and white

So I am not allowed to share my experience or comment on this thread?

ok so I i said it wrong, either way the police/CPS decided not to press charges, we had all witnessed her behaviour first hand

why am I not allowed to share my experience on this thread and have been berated by several people for doing so

That's awful you got that initial response from the police. 😡 I'm so glad you did manage to get a prosecution. Appalling how these things are dismissed sometimes.

In case it isn’t obvious, you’re being berated for sharing your experiences because you’re giving examples of the exception, not the rule, to potentially encourage someone to give the benefit of the doubt to a man with a laundry list of red flags. I’m not disputing what you or anyone has experienced, but bleeting on about false accusations when this man is literally exhibiting textbook abusive behaviour is highly irresponsible.

OP is clearly vulnerable to this man’s bullshit and has a child, how on earth is any man worth the risk for the minute possibility that it’s all just one big misunderstanding?

The other poster saying they ignored a CL email about her BF and is happy with her decision, if you do an advanced search the man in question was moved in with her young SEN children within a month and is a violent, jobless cokehead. Don’t be listening to people who try and brush this off, they’ve got their own problems that they’ve invited into their lives.

EXACTLY what I was going to post. I really couldn't stay in the same room with a man who'd done this, much less continue a relationship and consider involving him (no matter how long in the future) in the life of my child..

Look I'm going to be blunt OP, you met this guy online at the end of October and it's now mid January. So far you've been told his ex-wife made false allegations of DV, started a thread online looking for emotional support and attended a police station to discuss serious allegations made against him.

What about any of this says to you that you will find happiness with this guy? It's been ten weeks and this is supposed to be the happiest, easiest, most fun part of getting to know each other. This is him at his best and it's confusion and police involvement. Don't do this to your DC, don't drag this guy into their lives and create chaos for them. Walk away now, you have been given a warning of what lies ahead, you don't owe him anything, you're not in love or invested in him, most of us have stuff in our freezer longer than you have known him, just walk away.