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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"The Rules" - yay or nay at 40 yrs old

218 replies

To4rb · 09/01/2025 20:03

I was wondering if anyone has had any luck with The Rules, for dating? I am 40, been single 5 years. Dipped my toe in the water with OLD and ended up getting completely over-invested in a man who lived quite far away and was breadcrumming me horribly. Made a bit of a tit out of myself because I liked him so much; sending him messages daily (he'd 'heart' them mostly but sometimes replied) even though we were never in a relationship. Would get over the moon if he messaged me rather than the other way round but he messaged less and less and I just kind of jacked it in after about 9 months. Someone recommended The Rules and I've read it and kind of like the idea of actual rules to follow (am ND) and also seen good things about it on here. But wondering has anyone actually found a long-term partner from following it? I have the updated version however even that is very outdated now; all the new bits are about Facebook and MSN Messenger! Not sure exactly how it would translate to Bumble/ Tinder / Hinge etc. Thanks x

OP posts:
Noflukeforthenuke · 10/01/2025 23:58

LaBrasseria2024 · 10/01/2025 23:36

@Pyjamatimenow - in what way stricter? Sorry if I sound clueless, but I am fairly new to the dating game!

Ironically the people I do know in London are all in LTR.

@LaBrasseria2024 why don’t you just give it a try?

normally, I’d agree - don’t chase, let men do the running.

but if you are going to London anyway, fit in a date. I wouldn’t make a habit of it though and let him do the running afterwards.

the way I see it:

you go to London, and risk looking too keen. But at least you’ll know sooner if you get on well ( or don’t)

alternatively, you don’t go and you never get round to dating. There’s an argument that he should be keen to make the effort, but as we’ve been saying, maybe when he meets you in person he’ll realise you are someone he wants to chase.

BlueSky2024 · 11/01/2025 00:13

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 09/01/2025 20:55

Being approached won't happen if you aren't pretty. I am very plain and have resting bitch face (even when I smile). No man has EVER approached me. Ever. Unless it was to ask for my friend's number...

I'm not bitter. Not at all...

Not to sound patronising but plain people can look pretty if they smile, it makes them look more approachable, people want to associate with positive people and a smile shows you are,

When my sister was younger she told me when they were out with her group of friends one particular girl in the group would always get approached ( she wasn’t the best looking one in the group) she told them that how she did it was that she would give a guy who looked at her a little sly wink and that then encouraged the men to approach her, they weren’t picking the prettiest girl, they were picking the most approachable one

LaBrasseria2024 · 11/01/2025 00:17

@Noflukeforthenuke - he has been very persistent with messages. However when I think about it, a few months back I did actually propose we met in Dublin, so he could see old friends too. He used to work there and it's two hours from me, so I thought a fair compromise. As two hours travel for me and 1 hr 25 flight for him.

However, that never happened, sooo, yea, maybe I shouldn't bother lol

Noflukeforthenuke · 11/01/2025 00:34

LaBrasseria2024 · 11/01/2025 00:17

@Noflukeforthenuke - he has been very persistent with messages. However when I think about it, a few months back I did actually propose we met in Dublin, so he could see old friends too. He used to work there and it's two hours from me, so I thought a fair compromise. As two hours travel for me and 1 hr 25 flight for him.

However, that never happened, sooo, yea, maybe I shouldn't bother lol

Yeah - that’s fair enough. Ignore my earlier suggestion 😂

another one back in the sea!

PromiseNotToCall · 11/01/2025 00:45

LaBrasseria2024 · 10/01/2025 18:28

@PromiseNotToCall - would you accept a guy paying your hotel bill for you to come to his city for a date? I had this offer recently but declined as it made me feel weird

I wouldn't necessarily travel to visit a man; however, if the hotel is decent I would consider it!

blueshoes · 11/01/2025 01:01

Ariba · 10/01/2025 00:06

Admittedly I know nothing about online dating, but I don't see why setting some rules wouldn't work well. I read the Rules books and followed them, but this was 2007. Also why men marry bitches series.

I think it did help, and I think the main / sole reason it helped was that it is a tool for weeding out or filtering out those who are not interested in serious relationship / not interested in it with you specifically. Helps sort the wheat from the chaff.

Never approached anyone, just seemed approachable. Actually my partner his friend approached me and my friend. I don't know about online, but why not. Also join hobby groups, go out with friends, work etc.

I also have ND (I think), so I made rules like 1/3 of the days I would reply instantly, 1/3rd of the time in an hour, and 1/3rd of the time within say over 4 hours at least. Stops the too quick false intimacy building of text / social media contact above real life getting to know each other.

Didn't have any sexual contact for the first over 2 months / multiple dates at least, just kissing. Not until we felt it could be serious and we actually liked each others company. This usually weeds out those men just looking for sex, they can't be bothered with the effort if they don't really like you. Don't talk about other partners.

Never gave up or rearranged plans to see them. I think I remember doing some version of the do not accept a Saturday date after Wednesday. If they like you, they will learn quickly to plan in advance. But like the book says, don't tell them this, just say oh I'd really love to but I made plans to xyz, but would really love to schedule it soon. If they don't, then another low effort one weeded out!! Absolutely NO last minute hook ups.

I remember most of the time I didn't initiate contact, I let him do that. Although sometimes I did send a nice text or something which showed I was thinking of him.

I am quite possibly the most messed up about relationships ever, but I never showed much of it until we really knew each other. Book goes into this and I think it's still relevant. Don't be pessimistic about men.

Don't start trying to change them straight away, like their clothing choices, earnings etc.

Say something happens like you get lost in the car on a date, don't complain and make a big deal about it. Be patient. Why men marry bitches book says be hard to get and easy to live with, or something like that.

Don't get too invested in one man. Men usually fall in love slowly and with some resistance from themselves. It's not playing games on our part, it's better to give them the conditions to fall in love with you, and for your own sake weed out the idiots.

I know it's only an anecdote and possibly a coincidence, but I dated lots and it almost NEVER went well, until I started following this. I didn't follow it forever, maybe for the first 6 months or so.

I don't really like the image / looks parts of the books (cause I'm objectively ugly!!), but I see how they are relevant, try to make the most of presenting yourself as best you can, is the best advice to take from it without angsting over it - ,men don't!

Like I said, I know nothing of online dating, but I expect it would still work / translate to a large extent. No man is worth your angsting over, particularly if you barely know them. As controversial as it is, I do think the advice in the books books help weed out poor contenders, who would only cause you heartache anyway, leaving you to hopefully find a decent one!!

This is the essence of The Rules

PromiseNotToCall · 11/01/2025 01:07

PromiseNotToCall · 11/01/2025 00:45

I wouldn't necessarily travel to visit a man; however, if the hotel is decent I would consider it!

Make sure he pays for your travel, etc. Choose the hotel you want to stay in.

PromiseNotToCall · 11/01/2025 01:08

Alsonification · 10/01/2025 11:00

Sorry haven't read all the replies but thought I'd post my recent experience.
For background;
I'm a divorced mother of 2 adult children. Been single since I was 7 mths pregnant on my second child who is now 22. In that time I've had a couple of dates with 2 different guys. One was a guy I'd known years before & another I met through work. My heart wasn't in it however & ultimately I was happier single so I haven't been bothered.

Back in May of last year I met an old neighbour by chance. She told me taken up lake swimming every morning. Was raving about it etc.
I got thinking about it at home. I'm an early riser, usually up at 6am but start work (from home) at 8am so I had time & I need some exercise. However freezing cold water doesn't interest me 😂 so I joined my local leisure centre to use the pool. Now I can't really swim so I thought I'd walk up & down instead.
So I joined 5th June. I'm in the pool by 6:15am and stay for an hour every morning. Turns out there's a few others that do the same. I got talking to them as we walked. Most of them are retired men. But one man is only 4 years older than me. We chatted the most. Before Christmas he told me he had a present for me & he gave me a box of my fave chocs (he said I'd mentioned I liked them & he saw them in Tesco & thought of me ☺️). We exchanged numbers & over Christmas met up twice for coffee.
At the moment he is a friend & I enjoy his company. We text every evening & if I've missed the pool he'll text to say hi & phones for a quick chat before work.

I apologise for the length of the post but my point is, it's all been very easy & natural. I wasn't joining the pool expecting to meet anyone. I was doing it for myself. It's been a happy extra. It may come to nothing or it might be something but either way I've made a new friend.

I think my main advice would be to make sure you are happy in your own company first & doing things that interest you and once you're happy then that will attract people to you. Be they friends or more.

Love, love, love this! There is hope, ladies.

foghead · 11/01/2025 01:09

The Rules are basically telling you how not to act desperate and they work in as far as men run a mile from desperate women.
Some of the rules come naturally to many women but others, it doesn't and especially when they are really keen on a relationship.

PosiePetal · 11/01/2025 01:09

I remember reading it decades ago and yes, it definitely helped me.

LaBrasseria2024 · 11/01/2025 01:20

@PromiseNotToCall - he did offer to pay for my flights also! But I would be over there sometimes anyways! Not sure what hotel he would choose but he seems quite posh!

He is older than me -13 years!

LaBrasseria2024 · 11/01/2025 01:23

@Ariba -I have screenshot your post so I can read it again and again😁

ViciousCurrentBun · 11/01/2025 01:29

My housemate had ‘The Rules’ book, this is around 1996! I had never heard of it. She relayed them to me and it was kind of how I was naturally. I wasn’t that bothered really and having a great time overall. I was in my twenties and had left my childhood sweetheart a couple of years before as he had become such a boring guy very quickly.

I dated a couple of guys and then ended up with DH who was already a friend. I never slept with anyone quickly at all. I remember letting a guy who had bought rme dinner peck me on the cheek on date 2. We were together for a year and he asked me to marry him. I have had 3 marriage proposals in my life.

I just honestly felt that men were quite inconvenient as they needed at least some attention. To be honest my marriage has been successful because DH has no issue with me doing my own thing. I’m glad to have been called very awkward by many men :).

PromiseNotToCall · 11/01/2025 01:49

LaBrasseria2024 · 11/01/2025 01:20

@PromiseNotToCall - he did offer to pay for my flights also! But I would be over there sometimes anyways! Not sure what hotel he would choose but he seems quite posh!

He is older than me -13 years!

Let him pay for everything. Have him put the bookings in your name. I would fly out with little to no luggage and would say something cropped up at the last minute and have him buy me something to wear 😂

Starseeking · 11/01/2025 01:59

Applying the principles makes sense; nobody wants to be with a desperate person.

LaBrasseria2024 · 11/01/2025 02:05

@PromiseNotToCall 😂😂

I have been reading back on WhatsApps with this man and there was also a previous cancelled date in London (cancelled by me) ....we were supposed to go to a fancy lunch and I asked what people wear in that particular restaurant/said I wasn't sure what to wear and he said 'sexy/slutty dress&heels please' .

It was quite a while ago so I had forgotten all about it as all creepy comments from men all sort of blend into one. 😡

ElleintheWoods · 11/01/2025 06:45

AppleKatie · 09/01/2025 20:29

I would agree with trying to meet men in person but do people really get dressed up and go to bars alone hoping to be picked up?

I just can’t imagine a decent bloke picking up women like that! I mean say he does come over and chats to you what do you say ‘oh yes I’m just out for a drink on my own hoping to meet mr right?’

it’s all bit bad 90s rom com isn’t it?

No definitely not a bar!

But I would get chatted up in coffee shops, book shop, generally out and about (eg last weekend a man spoke to me in a shopping centre), yesterday someone started talking to me at the gym etc.

In fact events/ bars/ etc is where nobody ever approaches me, strangely.

ElleintheWoods · 11/01/2025 07:05

PromiseNotToCall · 09/01/2025 23:00

I am highly accustomed to dating in this climate - I just went against the 'norm' of swiping.

Out of interest, how’s that going for you?

I’m the same, tried apps briefly but they’re not for me. Do you find the men you meet are similarly ‘offline’?

I do feel like in the current climate of swiping everyone feels like there’s endless options and nobody feels ‘special’. I know what it feels like to meet and instantly feel the magic IRL, and that’s probably the only thing that will do it for me now.

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 11/01/2025 09:04

BlueSky2024 · 11/01/2025 00:13

Not to sound patronising but plain people can look pretty if they smile, it makes them look more approachable, people want to associate with positive people and a smile shows you are,

When my sister was younger she told me when they were out with her group of friends one particular girl in the group would always get approached ( she wasn’t the best looking one in the group) she told them that how she did it was that she would give a guy who looked at her a little sly wink and that then encouraged the men to approach her, they weren’t picking the prettiest girl, they were picking the most approachable one

Thanks, but no. I smile all the time. I'm happy, approachable (I need to be in my job) and people are quite content to approach me and chat. But not men and most certainly not in a situation where they might ask for my number. I think maybe your version of plain might not be the same as mine (I am, objectively, very plain).

To4rb · 11/01/2025 10:02

LaBrasseria2024 · 11/01/2025 02:05

@PromiseNotToCall 😂😂

I have been reading back on WhatsApps with this man and there was also a previous cancelled date in London (cancelled by me) ....we were supposed to go to a fancy lunch and I asked what people wear in that particular restaurant/said I wasn't sure what to wear and he said 'sexy/slutty dress&heels please' .

It was quite a while ago so I had forgotten all about it as all creepy comments from men all sort of blend into one. 😡

That is exactly the kind of thing I've had with the apps. The chats start of nice and normal, then you get thrown a curveball and it turns out the guy is actually a massive perv. Its so dispiriting to bother spending emotional energy talking to someone, only to discover the whole time they are actually indulging in some kind of wank-fantasy.
And even if you block them immediately, it is still kind of sad because you've spent time messaging someone who you think is OK.

OP posts:
To4rb · 11/01/2025 11:11

PromiseNotToCall · 10/01/2025 18:19

It's never too late to learn and share! We have to stick together to ward off junk men and protect ourselves 😂

Some men have said my behaviour is 'gold digger-ish', but I never gave a damn. If you're asking me for sex and to have access to my body, I want to access your bank account and have you pay some bills 😎

Love this. We absolutely do have to pool our knowledge as it is such a wild west out there. And yeah, I will definitely never allow myself to be breadcrummed again.

My ex totally love-bombed me so the bread-crumming seemed nice in comparison as I was wary of being love-bombed again, but of course there is a happy medium!

OP posts:
PromiseNotToCall · 11/01/2025 13:03

ElleintheWoods · 11/01/2025 07:05

Out of interest, how’s that going for you?

I’m the same, tried apps briefly but they’re not for me. Do you find the men you meet are similarly ‘offline’?

I do feel like in the current climate of swiping everyone feels like there’s endless options and nobody feels ‘special’. I know what it feels like to meet and instantly feel the magic IRL, and that’s probably the only thing that will do it for me now.

It worked for me, as I have been with my husband for 4 years. Many of my friends who chose to engage in online dating are still on the market and struggling to meet someone decent. While it's true men are men wherever you go, the guys I met offline were utterly different. I think it's important for women to be intentional with the kind of men they want and spend time in those spaces. Men target women all the time, and many of us can fall into that trap of settling for their nonsense. We need to remember one thing: we are the prize. Men are not!

LaBrasseria2024 · 11/01/2025 15:28

@To4rb - yes, it is so so frustrating. It comes from seemingly normal, professional men.

This guy made that comment then reverted back to normal convo. It was only cause I went back through messages last night I remembered!!

I sometimes wonder do they genuinely not realise it's out of order and are they trying to be humorous?!

randomMNusername500 · 11/01/2025 15:34

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

ElleintheWoods · 11/01/2025 15:48

PromiseNotToCall · 11/01/2025 13:03

It worked for me, as I have been with my husband for 4 years. Many of my friends who chose to engage in online dating are still on the market and struggling to meet someone decent. While it's true men are men wherever you go, the guys I met offline were utterly different. I think it's important for women to be intentional with the kind of men they want and spend time in those spaces. Men target women all the time, and many of us can fall into that trap of settling for their nonsense. We need to remember one thing: we are the prize. Men are not!

Yes I think you’re right.

I had a thing with a guy who didn’t do dating apps and not even social media and he was so different in his attitude to women and general outlook on life. Old-fashioned in the best possible way.

Whereas I’ve found that many dating app men are a bit bitter and cynical and have a disposable attitude to people/ think everyone is the same.

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