Would you stay after 9 years and no proposal?

[TwoLittleDogs]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I don't have any close friends or family that I feel comfortable speaking to about this, hence why I'm reaching out here for opinions and advice. I've been with my partner for over 9 years now, lived together most of that time, brought a house together (no children). I've brought up the topic of proposal and marriage countless times over the years, so he knows its something I have wanted, and he has always given the golden answer that he wants that too, but there has been no plans or action. We also went on a dream holiday a few years ago and I honestly thought he was going to propose then, but he didn't, and I've been growing resentment ever since. Something also happened this week which has just brought me to boiling point on the topic. My biological clock is also ticking, so I know I have to really decide what I want out of life. Any advice greatly appreciated.

He sounds like a difficult chap to communicate with; a bit secretive and peace-keeping rather than problem-solving. He clearly doesn't share your eagerness to be married and have children together either, though he might do it to please you if you make it happen.
Do you still want to be with him, given this is who he is? Maybe you do because you make each other happy in other ways. Maybe you love him deeply, and not having marriage and children together, or only having them because you want them and he's agreed, will be OK in your relationship?
These would be good questions to ask yourself and also to discuss with him. If he started to think that you might leave him because of his apathy around marriage and children, it might change the way his view about your relationship.

He's wasting your fertile years, unfortunately you need to push the issue or get rid now.

Men in that age bracket who have been there and done that marriage/kids wise are either raring to go and start again with a new woman or don't want kids again ever. Think it sounds like he's the latter

If you have kids, and take a career break to bring them up, that hits lifetime earnings, pension etc in most cases.

Study after study shows women do almost all mental load and majority of practical after kids, too. Which also impacts ability to focus on career.

If married, all assets go into a family pot should you ever part.

Unmarried, and all that matters is who paid for what, and if there was ever any intention of a shared eg family home.

I would never have kids with anyone I wasn't married to unless I were certain I would be happy returning to work full-time as soon as maternity leave ended, and confident all childcare chores and duties would be equally shared. And I know plenty of women who were confident of that until they had the actual child in their arms, whereupon career suddenly took a real back seat.

In most cases, marriage is the single best insurance policy a mother can have.

You clearly want marriage at the very least, so it's definitely time to sit down and have a frank conversation. It's got to be blunt. If you decide you would like children, you're wasting your fertile years with him.
Time to find out one way or another.

@TwoLittleDogs it really does depend on what you want.

I know quite a few very happy, unmarried, childless long term couples.
I know one long term couple who don't agree with marriage, have DC but have got all the legalities in place should one of them die.

I see DP has DC. How old are they? How old is he? Could this be like the Tom Selleck / Monica scenario in Friends? Does he want to go through the 'grunt work' child care years again?

I think you need to decide whether you want DC or not - that decision has a deadline on it. If you do and he is non-committal, you need to leave him and find a partner who wants the same things.

I think at your age you have to decide if having a child is important to you. Being honest their is nothing wrong in deciding to be child free. I think as well that you deserve better than this man who has kept you dangling for 9 years waiting for a engagement and a wedding.
At this stage I would take a day off work and get a few local auctioneers to value the house when your partner is not there. I would then get a solicitors advice about selling the house and what money you would be entitled to.

I would sit down with your boyfriend then on a Saturday morning with coffee and food. Ask him when are we getting engaged, married and having a family. Tell him I am now x age and I can't waste anymore time in this situation. He might not be expecting this but it time he was told - it time to make a decision.
If he is non committal or fobs you off I would tell him that fine we are going to split up so.
Tell him then I have gotten the house valued and was told it now worth x amount. I liked x auctioneer when I met them so I will ring them and we can get the house on the market or you can buy me out because I need to buy my own place now.

I would be that blunt with him. I would not be staying with him any longer. Nor would I be minding his kids or doing all the Christmas things either. Their comes a stage with certain things or people that you have to decide to put yourself and your needs before them.
I think that he has gotten comfortable in this situation. Your salary is helping pay a mortgage and I am sure over the past 9 years you done a lot for him and his children.
Don't be using your money and time to make his life easier when he is not willing to get married or have a child with you. You deserve better than this.

What stood out to me from your posts, @TwoLittleDogs is that you can't mention things to him, at least not face to face. So you send a message, then it's as if you'd never spoken.

Can you not see how really bad that it?
If you can't tell your other half what is on your mind, then he's not your matching half.

TBH he sounds a bit crap as a father as well.

But you seem to be thinking that he is better than no-one.
That might well not be the case.
You seem to be saying that you'll stay with this bloke, even though you know it's not great, because you don't want to do OLD.

He does not sound like the person for you, at all.

He's more likely to be playing the aggravated Grandad avoiding any sense of obligation as he has grown up adult DCs sooner than he is likely to reluctantly start a family with @TwoLittleDogs.

What are his mid 40s friendship group doing now with respect to babies - he's unlikely to want to be out of step with them now.

A man of his age has his eyes on accruing pension pots, investments etc and calculating if he can retire in the next 10 or 15 years - not wading that all out on childcare, weddings, raising DCs (...again - assume he at the very least financially supported his first family even if he was less than present, enthusiastic and encouraging for their emotional growth through childhood).

I had this with an ex, although I didn’t hang around for 9 years. After he said ‘I’m not ready’ or ‘soon’ for the third time we discussed it, I packed up my things and left. @TwoLittleDogs sadly, you really need to think about leaving.

I agree she deserves better - but he has already over the past decade shown her exactly who he is (not a good father, emotionally avoidant, uncommited) - he will not change.

OP says

"I've brought up the topic of proposal and marriage countless times over the years,'

Why should she beg and humilate herself even one more time? Even if he agreed he would waste her time - likely to keep delaying and change his mind - OP doesnt have time on her side. And even if he did agree - these avoidant types just get revenge by punishing silently with their contempt, withholding affection and support ... "it was you who wanted children - so you get up, deal with the trantrum, do the chores etc.." and the resentment kills the relationship anyway.

He's in his 40s and the kids are grown up.

@TwoLittleDogs I'm in a similar situation. The last thing on earth I'd be wanting to do at this stage is start childrearing all over again. He's stringing you along and has been for quite some time. He likes having a wife figure and I'd hazard a guess you do most of the keeping the house running too.

I need the harsh reality, so I appreciate it. I've also just found out today that my younger sibling is getting married and I'm obviously happy for them and putting on a front, but with the timing of it I just feel like I've been stabbed in the chest.

The "only being a Dad out of obligation" would make me throw this one back. Don't get stuck in the sunk costs fallacy.

I say this as someone who proposed to my husband after 9 years, but we were 20 when we started dated, skint and moving from place to place trying to chase our dream careers (same field, met at uni) and quite frankly because we were in our 20s I don't think it actually crossed DHs mind to do something that grown up because we weren't planning to have kids anytime soon.

I think if I'd have hinted he'd probably have proposed but I decided that just proposing was basically the same as hinting anyway so may aswell do it myself and do the whole romantic proposal shebang because I'm the romantic in the relationship anyway lol. We had our only kid 7 years after marriage.

But you've hinted and he's done nothing and he's a reluctant father so I'd quite frankly cut my losses. The worst part of me would worry he's trying to run down you biological clock so your sunk cost fallacy will be complete and you'll then feel completely stuck with him married or not.

Oh Darling. xx

I think you need to dump and go forwards into a brighter future. It will be hard at first. But so far it has all been about him. You deserve so much more. x

Thank you. I knew this was a possibility in the back of my mind but I didn't really think of it in this way. The fact he may think he only needs to string me along for a few more years until I'm over the fertility window...

From experience if he is the go along with it type it probably means that you are the proactive one and make sure that you have days out, holidays, presents for each other. It won’t change and if you have children you will carry the full mental load of a lot more. That would be my first concern. My second is timing and body clock, by the time you get even a simple wedding sorted it will be another few months down the line, and you will have organised it all no doubt.
You maybe need to ask yourself some hard questions, would life without him be better or worse than single childless, better or worse than single parenthood, can you imagine being with him in twenty years time. If it would help you to make an informed choice it might be worth getting some tests to see if children are going to be possible or likely.

I wasted far too many years on a man who was never ging to propose. Luckily i saw the light before my chance to have kids evaporated......I think if he had wanted to propose he would have done it by now.

'I just feel like I've been stabbed in the chest.'

Take not of that feeling - its very deep and is your gut screaming at you to listen to what you have known for a very long time (at least from the dream holiday situation years ago).

Be happy for your sibling and be honest with your friends and family who have likely been wring their hands and watching from the sidelines - they will want to support you now in leaving and getting on with a new chapter - if they dont - they were never your friends. Dont waste another minute. See the sibling engagement as a blessing that it woke you up to reality right now.

Is the sibling engagement the issue you referred to earlier or is there something else that has triggered you this week?

If you want a baby, you need to leave.

It doesn't always take long to meet the right person. My DH proposed 12 weeks after we met. He blurted it out before he meant to but we both knew.

You do not want a baby with this man. I always desperately wanted kids, I was broody even in my teens, and many times I thought, "I could have a baby with this person, we won't last forever but I'd be OK with doing it alone. How hard can it be?" Now I see friends dealing with a husband who is more like an extra child than a Dad, or my DH and other people trying to organise custody and child maintenance with an ex that they'd really rather never see again but are tied to for life. I know how full on parenting DD is and how I could never give her the life she has on my own, and the idea of having to pack her up every other week and send her to a different parent, a parent who I might not trust to act in her best interests, is so much worse than it seemed before I had a baby.

A few good arguments listed here for the OP to use to make her point 😊

Goodness if you believe it could be a possibility that he would string you along knowingly putting you through the heartbreak and pain of years of infertility - so that you never had a child - how vile a person would that be....?

Its bad enough that he has wasted a decade of your life and a significant chunk of your fertile years where you could have had many more relationships in order to meet the future father of your children.

Get rid asap find someone your age or slightly younger with no baggage - you will be glad you did - you dont want your future teenage kids to have a disengaged grumpy resentful old man in his late sixties for a DF.

Thank you (and thank you everyone for your continued responses). I think I knew this deep down but it's not really until someone explains it to you that you start to connect the dots. I agree I'm not his top priority, and I see that from his constant actions. But I don't think he's being purposefully deceitful or malicious. Until today I thought he truly believes that he loves me and has my best interests in mind.

I think you have had some good advice on here and good examples of things both working out & not.
I wish I had had this kind of advice all those years ago when I was in your position.

Spend some time thinking about all you have read here & maybe talking it over with a close friend or family member & then decide how you are going to play it.

Good luck x

He only saw his children out of obligation - WTF is the matter with him. If he isn't interested in the ones he already, he's hardly going to want more.

He doesn't have your best interests at heart. He only thinks of himself.

@SeatonCarew
Time to start playing the main part in your own life, not a bit part in his, I think.

Thank you for this, it really resonates with me.