daughter absolutely devastated after being on end of disgusting game

[thgdd55]

My daughter is struggling and won't leave the house after being a victim of such an awful game of "who can sleep with the ugliest girl in room" she was completely used by a complete sicko and I am unsure how to get her help so she can't get past this

I was a victim of a similar ‘game’ back in my uni days in the 90s. It was called ‘pull the pig’. Thankfully for me, it was confined to a snog in the club, but it was still soul-destroying when I discovered what it had been about.

It absolutely is not just as bad, they're not even in the same league.

Sadly, people can be so cruel. I think you need to get her some counselling and quickly, she will need help to get over this, bless her.

Fuck that, these pricks need a fucking pasting for their £&@?! Behaviour - preferably one that causes them as much emotional harm as possible (a good punch would be good too - wankers!)

They absolutely deserve to be shamed!

This poster says it best, tempted as I am to say you should co-ordinate a social media response by your family, to the mums and other relatives of the scummy 'men' involved. More important to support your daughter though, solidarity to her.

What sort of people are at this wedding? They must be incredibly scummy. What relationship does the man in question have with the bride? I would be so angry if I was the bride and this sort of thing had gone down.

In my day it was called “pull a pig” but that was more than 25 years ago. And honestly? All the revolting men (they were boys really) who engaged in that shite have grown up to be revolting adult men. Losers of the highest order, selfish, entitled, unable to maintain any kind of adult relationships, have had multiple children but are terrible fathers.
They are all single living in shitty places and having shitty lives.
Your DD has absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. She has been taken advantage of by a shit man and honestly? We ALL have been! She shagged a loser? So what? I know this is MN and people like to claim they’ve only ever had 2 boyfriends, but in reality, most of us have shagged some utter dross. This isn’t about her, this is about him (and his tiny, pathetic ego)
Peronally, I wish him gangrene of the face and genitals. Your DD will recover but he will always be a revolting piece of shit.

Sorry l thought it was teasing at school and asking guys who was ugliest etc. My bad. Felt it was more of a younger girl.

Agree with this.

As it was witnessed by so many already, I wonder whether a group email to the friends and family of these men?

I'd absolutely describe it as rape-adjascent. What they did was rapey behaviour and utterly dehumanising. I would disown forever any male connected to me who behaved like this. Huge red flag for future behaviour too. They don't see women as fully human.

Your dd feels shame but the shame entirely belongs to these men. A therapist experienced with rape victims would really help, when your dd is ready.

Absolutely. There’s no precedent for this sort of behaviour constituting the crime of sex by deception. The courts have generally found people guilty of that crime where the deception is of a more fundamental sort (such as deception as to the sex of the person or the nature of the act). Even the women who unknowingly had sex with undercover policemen weren’t successful in trying to bring a prosecution. I think it’s really unlikely that reporting this to the police would go anywhere.

(None of this takes away from how morally repugnant this was.)

Bit off topic, but to me it's relevant:

How did we get to this point, from boy-meets-girl, asks girl out and does his best to impress and please her (in a non-bed way)?

I've read and heard (from older people over the years) about 'courting' in the past and I've never heard of anything like this, or similar, which (alarmingly) some people seem to think is normal and nothing to get het up about.

The worst that might happen is someone would turn you down for a date.

Seriously, what's happened? It's not as stupid a question as it sounds. Is it a corollary of the more sexually-free attitudes today? I'm guessing that for many people in the past, sex wasn't on the menu until further on in a relationship - for BOTH sexes. I'm not being sexist here - just trying to analyse how we've got to this awful place in sexual/romantic relations. (Or perhaps that's the issue - the 'romantic' bit is what we've ditched, unfortunately.)

I know people will jump to the conclusion that I AM being sexist in that post, but I'm not. I'm not suggesting men and woman should have different standards or codes of conduct in sexual relationships. Just asking why it's all become so crude and mechanistic and whether that's why some people think they can get away with treating sexual partners like shit.

Or have we all become more vulgar, cruel and outrageous in general, and if so whY? Social media? Misogynist propaganda, incels etc?

It’s a fair question, @CoffeeCantata but it’s not that recent a change as a lot of people on this thread have attested- definitely happening in the 80s and 90s.

I think Louise Perry’s book, The Case Against the Sexual Revolution, is interesting on this stuff- she argues that the pill and changing sexual attitudes, rather than liberating women, have harmed them by creating expectations around sexual behaviour that primarily benefit men and leave the majority of women vulnerable in multiple ways. I found it very interesting (although obviously not a take everyone will agree with).

Thanks, Craig - and I think there's a lot in that.

I've always believed that the sexual revolution gave men a green light, and didn't help women very much. I say that as a strong feminist, not as a Victorian matron!! It allowed (and allows) men to pressure women more easily and, if all else fails, they can always accuse them of being uptight etc (and accusation which some posters on these threads come up with, sadly).

I'll put my cards on the table: it's a much safer bet all round for both sexes, but especially women, to get to know your partner first before jumping into bed. Someone upthread has interpreted that idea as old-fashioned and sexist, but it's not. It's surely just common sense! Why make yourself so utterly vulnerable to a complete stranger - and especially if you're a bit tipsy and maybe not making the best assessment of him/her? It's not prudish - it's self-protective. Ah - but men, and some women, will try to frame it that way for their own purposes, won't they?

I really feel for the young woman in this scenario - and I'm not judging her. My comments reflect my horror at what happened to her, and I've been thinking about it a lot and trying to work out just how we got to this horrible point.

The OP hasn't returned. I find it curious that the whole family sat and watched this entire spectacle. The OP hasn't explained whether anybody from her family- including her?- intervened.

This sounds like a truly scummy family wedding if this is all true!

You say it's much safer but is it? You do make yourself somewhat vulnerable by jumping into bed with someone but are we any less vulnerable by going the more traditional route? When do you know someone enough to have sex with them? This forum alone has plenty of horror stories and cautionary tales from people in horrible situations after years of marriage. I'm not convinced that either option is a guarantee of safety.

For every casual sex encounter that has negative consequences for either party, there are plenty more that don't. We're more likely to hear the stories like this because these are the stories that grab our attention and give us something to discuss.

I think, if anything, I could agree that society has become too openly sexualised and there's a lot of pressure on people to fit into certain moulds. I don't think the answer to that is to regress to more traditional ways of connecting, the solution is to do more to empower people to be secure in themselves and to make choices that hold to their values.

@Plantparent OP hasn't come back - I hope that she's able to do something to make this situation better for her daughter. But, having asked for help, it would be good to have some kind of update. That poor girl.

@divinededacende Interesting points - but I would argue 2 things: 1) its not a regression to return to taking things in sexual relationships a bit more slowly. I would say it's progress! Who loses out? Only vile men who are after a free shag on the first date. Nice men will wait and be respectful. You read so many accounts on here where it's clear they've only joined a dating app for that reason, and put pressure on the women.
But I do think that nowadays it seems hard to meet partners in the old 'organic' way - where you join a hobby group or sports club etc etc.or even at work, for various reasons. It's a sad aspect of modern life.

2. if you do a de-familiarisation exercise and imagine meeting a stranger for just an hour or so, then getting naked and putting yourself absolutely in their power - emotionally and physically - how mad is that? Personally, I think it's crazy. I would be very wary and want to get to know them and see them in a number of contexts before having sex. I confess I don't get how people can put so much trust in another random, especially in the feverish, alcohol-fuelled and possibly druggy atmosphere of a club or party. I'm not suggesting that, as a woman, you should only have sex with someone you're going to have a long relationship with, but you don't have to do it so quickly. At least find out a bit about them first and establish trust.

I suppose what I'm saying is very quaint...basically, what happened to romance? I would want to be wooed a bit and made to feel very special, I'd want the man to show a real interest in me as a person, try to impress me and show respect. Only then would I want to go any further. It may be old-fashioned, but it's so much more enjoyable than a drunken shag on the first night you meet them, and an embarrassed (or humiliating, in this girl's case) awakening in the morning!

Just to add...I think if you go for a quick shag your are missing one of the best bits of the relationship: he build-up with all the butterflies in your stomach,the excitement, flirting, looks and smiles etc etc. Why would anyone want to go straight from A to Z?

I think they key thing here is that you say only men lose out. That isn't the case. Women lose out too. Promiscuity (for want of a better word) might benefit men more on the whole but it still benefits women and everyone should be free to chose the approach that works for them.

Promiscuity doesn't mean that romance can't exist. It's down to what matters to the person, what romance looks like for them and where it fits into the picture. You attach very specific meaning to sex and you can only enjoy it in specific circumstances. That's absolutely fine and that's part of the freedom to chose without shame.

There's nothing wrong with either approach. I think the important thing is that people know why they're making the choices they're making and what they hope to get from it. The risk to your wellbeing comes when there's a disconnect between your values and your actions which absolutely happens in the world we live in where everything is fast and high-pressure - not just in terms of sex and romance. I think it's far more important to address that.

The men involved who were guests at a Wedding humiliated your daughter and other female guests publicly. Akin to humiliating disabled people, akin to humiliating people of colour or people of religious backround they humiliated women for their entertainment at a celebratory event. The person involved needs to be shamed called out for his behaviour. She should quietly let the bride/ groom aware and make quiet alliance with the other women involved. she did nothing wrong. did anyone put photos on social media of " his win".? If so, definitely needs addressing.