Have men become more...repressed (dating?)

[Pinkbonbon]

OK this is a weird one but has anyone else noticed a shift where men are not kissing till like 3 dates in now?

And, last time I dated I also noticed, basic polite compliments of 'you look nice' seemed to have vanished too (que paranoia xD).

It just seems so different from a decade ago. Maybe because I'm getting older. But I also wondered if it's just because times have changed.

I'm finding IM the one who wants to be tactile on dates now but worried about freaking THEM out.

Like I think because I've been approaching things in the manner of just wanting to go out, do a little drinks and a bit of snogging and see where things go. I'm not just looking for short term but, I'd like to sample a little, see if there's good chemistry.

But it's like men have become repressed!
Either that or I've become scary xD
Just wondered if anyone else was noticing similar.

Well I've never been much good at reading body language or had the self confidence to go in for a first kiss. So I've always waited for the woman to make the first move, which also makes consent completely certain. And I do think that has become a major factor in what you're experiencing now, with the meeting too stuff, and better awareness of consent consent in general. For most men the thought of overstepping has become quite terrifying so the vast majority of decent blokes have become rather submissive, especially when dating/with new partners.

Women still don't tend to report actual sex crimes. Let alone borderline creepy dates.

Report to where? Are you suggesting women should report anyone who comes across as 'borderline creepy' to the police?

Have you not come across the women only facebook groups where they post/share/discuss men to avoid? It's every blokes worst nightmare to think they might do or say something wrong and end up posted about on one of those groups. I've got female friends who were on them and some of the things men were black listed for were remarkably trivial. A bloke going in for an unrequited kiss would be considered a pretty serious 'offence' to many of them.

Men should ABSOLUTELY not rely on reading body language.Most men will absolutely fuck that right up!
Women are the gatekeepers of relationships and sex. It’s women who do the choosing so it really does not make sense for the men to do the chasing does it.
if the women is interested she will hopefully make it obvious, and it will have to be really really obvious!

@Pinkbonbon Last guy I had a date with and a young girl walked past and told me I had a pretty dress. And I said thanks. And he...said nothing. Like that would have been the perfect time to say 'yes it is, you look nice today' or something. But, nope.

Really confused by this. From listening to women and reading what they write online, I thought women generally felt happy when they received compliments from other women, but compliments from men tended to have a negative impact. I never comment on women's appearances.

Depends a lot on the context. Uninvited catcalling in the street or workplace, no. Someone for whom you have made a particular effort, it is nice if that's acknowledged - especially if it's something like, "I love that colour on you, it really brings out your eyes," rather than "your tits look hot in that."

I don't think that's correct at all. Although no one is disputing that "your tits look hot in that" would be an unwelcome comment in any context, I don't think that milder comments from men are particularly welcome either. I knew a woman who was put off when a man who was expressing interest said he liked her scarf and shoes. Also, part of the issue is that most men don't understand that their compliments will not have much impact as women are complimented all the time on their appearance and they already know that they are attractive. The safest approach is to never comment on a woman's appearance, which is the approach I take.

No I was replying to someone, making the point that no one is going to report anyone for being (arguably) a bit creepy on a date. Like, that's not a thing.

If you go on a date it's fine to tell her she looks nice today. You're on a date with her! It's not the same as if you're a random guy passing her on the street xD

Though to be fair, it's probably even fine for even a guy to say 'I love your dress' as he carries on walking imo. Unless maybe there's no one else around... then it might be creepy. An outfit compliment is always nice to get. Provided it's not a conversation starter. I'd just assume he was gay/into fashion.

But that's not the safest approach.
I've not seen men again because they haven't bothered to tell me I look nice after I've make an effort. It's pretty rude not to tell someone they look good on your date. It comes acrosss as disinterest. And why would I go on more dates with them if they can't even extend basic courtesy?

Sure there might be the odd weirdo that takes offence to a man complimenting her...but she's the exception, not the rule. Provided, as pp said, it's am appropriate compliment and not, about her tits haha

@Pinkbonbon But that's not the safest approach. I've not seen men again because they haven't bothered to tell me I look nice after I've make an effort. It's pretty rude not to tell someone they look good on your date. It comes acrosss as disinterest. And why would I go on more dates with them if they can't even extend basic courtesy?

Hypothetically, if I was on a date and I didn't comment on a woman's appearance, the worst outcome is that she doesn't see me again.

If I comment on a woman's appearance, the worst outcome is that she will be offended and I will look like a "creep."

Clearly, the safest outcome is not to comment on appearance. There are other kinds of compliments that can be delivered which are far more effective- for example, complimenting someone's actions or thoughtfulness.

Just tell your date she looks lovely, jeez! If she’s offended by that and thinks you’re a creep, then congratulations, you’ve had a quick and easy escape from a professionally offended control freak.

In all honesty if I want fashion advice I will ask a trusted female friend. Either that or a gay man who’s opinion I trust.
Disclaimer: I’m not single and dh compliments me all the time.
However, if I want an honest opinion as to weather I should buy the blue dress or the red one I’ll ask either a good friend who’s style choice is bang on. Or if I’m shopping and only with dh, then I ask women in the changing rooms!
I would also give honest advice and say the red one suits your colouring much better.
Without wishing to generalise I think most men are not that attuned to say the right thing regarding how a woman looks. Yes they know they find her attractive but that’s about it.
They are not Tom Ford.
They also don’t want to cock things up and come across as some kind of sex pest.
Having said that if you’ve been on several dates and you are not feeling it, then it’s fine to bin him off.

And what if she tells her social circle?

From a Mans perspective its just such a minefield that personally just follow the Female`s lead now and go along with it.
For instance my previous relationship began with a lovely first date where she asked me back to her House at the end of the date and was very willing to sleep together,which I didnt want to do as i dont see that as first date material personally (relationship lasted 3 years after that but I never really forgot the first date thing tbh)
Im now in a new relationship that after 5 dates we hadnt even kissed which was fine as im a bit of a traditionalist ,ended up back at hers on date 2 and 3 and just kept it respectful and just chatted.
First kiss was date 6 and slept together on date 10 and I respect her for that and am glad we waited.
I guess it depends what you want,but id personally rather miss out on easy Sex than expect it on a plate or feel entitled to it
Honestly though when OLD I was very surprised at how many women were comfortable with inviting a strange man back to theirs very early in the dating process and even more surprised at how many werent bothered at all about insisting on a condom either

Tells them what? That he complimented her? On a date? Ooooh the horror!

God, where's the passion? I'd find all this reticent man stuff such a turn-off. I hate passivity in men. I guess the pendulum has just swung too far the other way, and hopefully will settle back to somewhere between creepy sex pest and shy male wallflower.

I guess it depends what you want,but id personally rather miss out on easy Sex than expect it on a plate or feel entitled to it

I want a relationship with good sex. I don't want to spend time getting to know someone and be emotionally invested if they turn out to be a crap kisser or rubbish in bed. I have plenty of friends to talk to.

even more surprised at how many werent bothered at all about insisting on a condom

Yes, this has surprised me. Men around my age will have reached puberty as the AIDS epidemic hit, and yet most of them won't mention condoms or STI checks unprompted, and then they'll usually complain that sex with a condom isn't as good - which it isn't, to be fair, but we can always do no sex, which is the alternative.

It's okay, @Runsyd - there are plenty of passionate, confident men out there. Admittedly, a lot are arseholes, but there are some good ones among them.

Funny how women are at far more at risk of harm from men, but now that women speak about it openly, women are now seen as the danger that men need to protect themselves from.

Also-I work in an environment here we mix freely and its a predominantly male workforce.
There is a pretty young woman 30-ish who flirts unashamedly with the men,has had a one night stand with one of them and was then in a relationship with another for a few months-But she has also reported another two men to HR,they just responded to her flirting in the same way as the other two but because she didnt fancy them she reported them instead.
I`m definitely no bleeding heart Liberal but I see this kind of stuff playing out every day,and partly the reason why decent men have to be very careful nowadays.
Ive dated a lot over the years but always let the Female take the initiative nowadays,its definitely swung back too far the other way but thats a sign of the times I guess.....

@Specialized101 Does your workplace have harassment training? It might help to make clearer boundaries for all. At ours - it was okay to ask colleagues out once, but more could count as harassment. (Although relationships between people at different levels in the same reporting line are forbidden.) It also made clearer what sort of behaviours aren't acceptable.

If there's no snog by the end of date 3, I'm not seeing him again. At least half of the people you kiss are either going to be really bad at it or, you are going to find it just doesn't do anything for you.

I actually had an experience with a guy who seemed great but then on the first kiss, that I 'okayed' - jammed his tongue down my throat and backed me against the chair and accidently brushed...a little too high on my thigh, shall we say. Fun times. Then when he tried to come in again he no joke, made an O shape with his mouth and I was like 'nope'. Some people are genuinely octopus xD

Better finding out on date 2 than many dates in!
I can laugh about it. But if I'd had to wait 6 dates to find that out I'd have been pissed!

I don’t think it’s about men being passive, more about men being cautious when 1st getting to know someone, which is probably a good thing & women needs drop the entire “let the man do the chasing “ bullshit and be more clear

But if this threads shown anything it's that no matter how clear women are, it's being flat out ignored by some!

I'm not passive personally.

I do absolutely like it when the man shows initiative though :)

I don't think wanting to be the woman in the relationship is something that women need to deny themselves just because some guys have decided to be passive, anally retentive, herbivores.

I dunno how more introverted women fair dating today. It must be torture. Still the problem of creepy men, but now also these odd jittery sort too.

i think it’s basically some men just trying to navigate the new world order and because they are not sure what is and is t going to be acceptable going with the “ if your now sure what to say the better say nothing at all “ approach.
its a spectrum like all things, the herbivores twitchy guys you mention are not dating at all, the ones in the middle are trying to do the right thing whatever they think that is and there are 10-15% who never heard of moo too or the patriarchy and will quite happily meet you with an opening line of “nice arse babes”

Geez I really should get some reading glasses! Apologies!