Have men become more...repressed (dating?)

[Pinkbonbon]

OK this is a weird one but has anyone else noticed a shift where men are not kissing till like 3 dates in now?

And, last time I dated I also noticed, basic polite compliments of 'you look nice' seemed to have vanished too (que paranoia xD).

It just seems so different from a decade ago. Maybe because I'm getting older. But I also wondered if it's just because times have changed.

I'm finding IM the one who wants to be tactile on dates now but worried about freaking THEM out.

Like I think because I've been approaching things in the manner of just wanting to go out, do a little drinks and a bit of snogging and see where things go. I'm not just looking for short term but, I'd like to sample a little, see if there's good chemistry.

But it's like men have become repressed!
Either that or I've become scary xD
Just wondered if anyone else was noticing similar.

And thats why body language exists.
Or if needs be, asking.

I take your point about some people/dates being difficult to read based on nervousness though. That can absolutely be a factor I agree.

@retinolalcohol I agree, I prefer the no asking approach but understand why the asking is better overall.

We read these signs 24/7 without knowing we are doing it. Because we do it our whole life with everyone. Determining through their body language how much space to give them.

I do think you are assuming many peoples body language reading skills are better than they are in reality. After all MNs boards are full of posters not been able to understand the behaviour of partners, family & friends they have known for years!

I don’t particularly care. I know that I enjoy dating and generally speaking have no issues with the conduct of men on them, I find them respectful and aware. They behave as I would hope. However I’m not the one to post a thread complaining.

If perhaps in the future, men return to their old fashioned ways, I’ll be in the same position as OP and begin to start threads complaining about their behaviour. Not all women want the same things, if that makes a man think twice about their actions then so be it.

I don't believe any men genuinely think they will be accused of assault simply for touching their date's arm. But almost certainly they do think that if they misjudge it then they've blown their chance, so why not wait a date or two until they're on surer footing.

I don't really see what's so wrong with that.

How do people with a no touch rule navigate it happening in the rest of their life? Is it just men who are not allowed to touch? I’m genuinely curious as to whether this is a feminist stance, or about bodily autonomy, or where it comes from.

I always felt that the upper arm was somewhat of a safe place to touch, offer comfort when needed, etc.

I really don’t mean to pry if someone has a painful reason why they don’t want to be touched in any way whatsoever, but I am puzzled by the thought that this is a wide spread behaviour.

I really don’t want to cause any offence or distress and will stop this line of questioning immediately if it causes any.

There’s no painful reason if you’re asking me.

I don’t want anyone touching me, I don’t care where it is, if it happens by accident I don’t really care. It changes when there’s intent. Largely it’s forgivable, and I would just move away.

On a date where I expect exemplary behaviour, I wouldn’t tolerate it. It’s one of my few windows into who someone is, and I don’t believe it to be a green flag. There’s a million men to date, I don’t owe it to give them a second chance.

Men in gyms are routinely accused of being sexual predators, creeps, etc., for possibly a split second glance in the general direction of a woman.
Even a blind man was chucked out of a gym because a woman thought he was staring at her.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/i-booted-out-gym-staring-30267743

I don't think people can all read body language well. We're all meant to be more aware of neurodiversity these days - one of the many tests for it is about how well you can read facial expressions. Clearly not everyone is good at it. Some will have learnt to hide their reactions - e.g. if they've been in an abusive relationship of some sort. (Though they may also be hypervigilant about any change in other people's expressions and body language.) We are all different in how much we show and how well we can read.

It is better to ask than just launch straight in, especially if you're not good at reading body language. Perhaps if you find it off-putting, you need to use a dating app where people are more likely to be open about being dominant.

Interesting angle raised about the Me Too movement. In reality though, I think the guys who have taken that in would have been generally decent guys even before the movement. Whereas the creeps will just remain creeps.

There have always been guys that are super conscientious that appeal to a certain type of woman and there will always be a more cavalier man that will appeal to others.
I think you’ve just had a run of bad luck meeting the former.

I genuinely wouldn't mind of a guy asked..I think it weird but whatever. But the pattern shift I've noticed...it's not like that. It's a shut down of...flirting, essentially.

I feel like I'm meeting a pal for a chat. Now thats fine on date one tbf. Though I'd still expect at least a 'you look lovely'. But if it's a few dates in and he's acting like my buddy, not my date...I'm going to stop seeing him as a date. And I'm probably going to either not see him again or, friendzone him.

So that's more likely to not get him a next date than an ill timed arm touch would.

Who raises these men?

Why don't you ask them?

I probably have asked them a couple of times.
Eg: "can I take your arm?" When walking.

Generally speaking body language is all you need to gage if someone is OK with touch or not though. I see closed off body language, that's a no touch, no ask territory fir example.

Again, I'm happy to initiate but thats not the point. The point is, men no longer seem to. I shouldn't be 3 dates in and having to guess whether they like me or not because they ask for next dates but even seem a little rigid with a goodbye hug (Which, I also, incase there was worry, check 'are you a hugger?' before jumping into xD).

I’ll explain it for you - the misogyny comes from caring more about consent because of your reputation (“self preservation”) than caring about consent because it’s treating women with respect and dignity. As always, lots of men selfishly don’t give a shit about women as people, they only care about how things impact them.

Summarised - don’t touch or impose yourself on a women without her consent. Not because it’s ‘a rule’ but because why would you?

What didn’t you get about that? Not rocket science is it!

Have you bothered to read ANY of the comments on this thread?

loads of people are saying it’s consent issue,

it’s not rocket science it it !

I don't think men are very good at reading body language though, compared to women.

The fact is, that women have a huge need to know the intentions of a member of the opposite sex, because they are constantly potentially in danger from them. You watch men far more closely on a subconscious level, you learn to get impressions about them and their intentions from the smallest changes in posture, gaze, entry into personal space.

Men don't do that, we don't need to. You're largely not a danger to us. We're far more likely to notice the guy on the other side of the room who might kick off, than the woman who's been staring at us for half an hour because she likes us.

You can ask pretty much any man and they'll have a story about someone who fancies them, and they had no idea until another woman let them know.

So men don't actually know the signs that a woman wants them to kiss them, or is OK with more physical contact. And until relatively recently, a lot of them didn't care. They'd wait the "expected" amount of time and then go in for a kiss regardless.

And then Me Too happened, and an awful lot of men realised how intimidating, how unwanted, some of their actions were. So a lot of men now hold right back until they are sure that they have a green light. But we still can't read body language, so the first green light we see is "She's kissing me"

And yes, we could just ask, but I see a good few threads on here every few months titled "He asked me to kiss him and it gave me the ick"

Note: I've been out of the dating game for a good 18 years so this is all just guesswork really.

This thread actually illustrates perfectly how contradictory and confusing women's expectations are.

It's hardly surprising so many men just give up or head off to lands where what's required of them is clearer.

I wouldn’t really expect a date to compliment my looks or physicality on a first or second date. Telling me they enjoyed my company and found me really interesting would go down better.
I would assume if a guy asked me out for a third date etc that he found me attractive.
I’m not single though so thus gs just loveyouu opinion.
Dh compliments me all the time. He remembers what I wore on our second date saying how attractive he thought I looked. Although he always calls it ‘that pink dress’ when in fact it was orange!
One of the things I liked about him was that he didn’t try and get physical at all, not until at least our 4th date. Then he asked if he could hold my hand and things progressed from there.
Looking back, the guys who tried kissing me and touching me from the off turned out to be total creepy bastards.

Women who read things like 50 shades don't want to be asked can I kiss you.

Consent has to be followed but women want men to take charge.

No wonder men don’t want to kiss or date women etc , when you see posters like this throwing around the misogynistic term like confetti about what a man might be thinking,

since when has this become a 1984 Orwellian state that says what are and are not allowed to think now

And thank goodness the people in real world don’t believe that kind of garbage

What sort of double standards are you proposing?

If you had a son & daughter are going to tell you son that touching people is wrong, but you daughter can do whatever she wants??

its comments like this that make me wonder if some people live in the real world

How many simplistic comments are going to be made on here about men?

Men are not in two categories, there's a scale going from completely disrespectful about boundaries to totally passive and not ever finding out where they are. They are rare at both ends of the scale. It's a delicate dance for most normal men who do sometimes misread a situation and back off.

I expect some men have been scared off by women who are also on a sliding scale of misandry. I'm not sure misandry is such a rare thing these days as it seems to have become socially acceptable. I can't see why men would risk being put up on social media and have their lives ruined for a woman they don't know.