Have men become more...repressed (dating?)

[Pinkbonbon]

OK this is a weird one but has anyone else noticed a shift where men are not kissing till like 3 dates in now?

And, last time I dated I also noticed, basic polite compliments of 'you look nice' seemed to have vanished too (que paranoia xD).

It just seems so different from a decade ago. Maybe because I'm getting older. But I also wondered if it's just because times have changed.

I'm finding IM the one who wants to be tactile on dates now but worried about freaking THEM out.

Like I think because I've been approaching things in the manner of just wanting to go out, do a little drinks and a bit of snogging and see where things go. I'm not just looking for short term but, I'd like to sample a little, see if there's good chemistry.

But it's like men have become repressed!
Either that or I've become scary xD
Just wondered if anyone else was noticing similar.

Sexual assault, not all assault.

But it's NOT an unwanted touch. Because you read eachothers body language.

You can’t assume that for everyone though. Because often people can’t read each others body language properly. I was certain a friend fancied me & he told me he was gay after I made my move 😆

If you do touch their arm and there's no reciprocation or they aren't happy about it, you back off. It's not difficult!

But it might cost you another date if you like that person

I would certainly leave regardless of any chemistry, and would certainly tell them there and then what I thought of it.

This hasn't been my experience. I've dated a lot and kissed on all of my first dates recently where I wanted there to be one - without there being a 'can I kiss you'
But then I do meet them half way - become more tactile, more prolonged eye contact, close the gap etc.

I actually think it's really good that men are now asking for consent/waiting a little longer until they're sure, though. When I was young I hated kissing on a first date and the amount of men that'd just get in my face in the absence of any non verbal cues was astounding.

The problem is where I'm making it obvious that I want something to happen and they won't, though - rightly or wrongly I find it a turnoff.

I've been starkers in a man's bed, after taking my own and his clothes off, actively and enthusiastically participating, and he's asked for consent at every step - think 'can I touch you here', 'can I kiss you here', 'can I go get a condom'.

I know why he did it in theory, but it turned me off. I don't want to be asked, when I've made it staggeringly obvious. It disrupts the flow and makes it awkward.

So it's a bit of a double edged sword. I'm glad for those (like young me) who are more reserved, but find it annoying where all the signs are there (like with older me).

I think it comes from attitudes on social media - the other day I was sent a tiktok that was promoting hairdressers asking for permission before touching someone's HAIR for fucks sake. I don't think a proportion of men know what to do for the best

So, what you are saying is that men don’t make advances in women because they feel it may be embarrassing if they are rejected?

I didn’t say that although some will be embarrassed sure. I’ve been rejected & felt embarrassed before, I think it’s a normal reaction. I think many young men do not want to be seen as pushy, dominant etc as they can be seen as toxic. Certainly I see that shift in the teen boys I am around.

I said I think it’s more sensible to ask for consent regardless of body language. And I said I don’t think men would necessarily worry about getting accused of assault if they touch an arm unasked but they may worry about a second date etc.

If only there was something that could be done if you were not sure...oh...I dunno...like, asking!

But tbh I don't think its not being clear. People usually have open vs closed body language. 90 percent of our understanding of eachother is body language and subtle signals that we are always reading.

For example, she may be friendly, but not standing very close. Affording herself more personal space. Creating a barrier with distance. Moving back a little as we move forwards.
Or it may simply be she keeps her arms crossed creating a physical barrier.

We read these signs 24/7 without knowing we are doing it. Because we do it our whole life with everyone. Determining through their body language how much space to give them.

Now I'm not saying everyone is excellent at this xD But generally speaking, it's inate to us.

Horses for courses. A man might lose a date with you by being too forwards, and lose one with OP by being the other way.

Do you think they would have done something wrong by touching you on the arm?

That’s fine, maybe that’s the world we live in.

Yes I do think they’d have done something wrong.

That’s an Olympic gold winning leap you have just made

If you're avoiding another date on the basis they...touched your arm... you probably shouldn't be dating.

I've been starkers in a man's bed, after taking my own and his clothes off, actively and enthusiastically participating, and he's asked for consent at every step - think 'can I touch you here', 'can I kiss you here', 'can I go get a condom'.

I know why he did it in theory, but it turned me off. I don't want to be asked, when I've made it staggeringly obvious. It disrupts the flow and makes it awkward.

@retinolalcohol I’ve always wondered how the above “ideal” situation plays out in reality because as you say no flow or spontaneity.

@Pinkbonbon but @Fagled is saying she wouldn’t want an unsolicited touch, I’m not sure why that means she shouldn’t date?

And from the others person perspective in that scenario they are likely to not do an unsolicited touch again on future dates.

I think pulling out of a date because someone touches you on the arm is pretty extreme. If I felt like that, I’d definitely take my time getting to know someone or a date and make sure I e collapsed my position on non-consensual touching in advance. I think it would be far more socially inappropriate to impose that kind of rule on a date without discussing it first than it would be to touch someone’s arm without asking.

Yes, exactly, I’ve got no problem finding dates, the vast majority of people have been incredibly respectful and don’t go around touching me. If there’s any intimacy they make it clear what they’re about to do and I have a say in the manner.

Whilst my time with that person is definitely over, hopefully it means one less man touching someone inappropriately in the future if they’re receptive to learning.

Sorry, there were parts of that post that were a bit mangled. I think the gist of it was there though.

She didn't say unsolicited.

If someone's a creepy handsy fucker who keeps grabbing you then of course that would, fairly, cost you a second date.

But someone touching your arm on a date is hardly that. If it does turn out it was 'unsolicited'...whatever the fuck that even means in this context...so what? It's a little arm touch xD

If only there was something that could be done if you were not sure...oh...I dunno...like, asking!

Im confused, I have said they should ask before they touched an arm. I thought you were saying they should be able to do it without asking & just reading body language?

Yep - hard for men to know I think.

For me, the ideal would be that there are no/few words exchanged when I've made it obvious.

But then, as demonstrated by this thread, some women don't even want to be touched somewhere nonsexual without verbal consent.

I find it annoying, but if more men start going in this direction, I suppose it is the lesser of two evils. Rather me slightly irritated/turned off than someone else upset/traumatized kinda thing

I do think we can just read body language. But personally I have no problem with being asked if they are unsure. It's a bit weird but, whatever.

Is a touch on the arm “intimacy” or “inappropriate”?

If only this was true! I've been both oblivious in the face of a man hitting on me too many times, and seen too much obliviousness from men who are being hit on. No neurodiversity in anyone involved as far as I know.

Body language is also hard to read if you're nervous or prone to second-guessing yourself (which ironically will be more the case if you actually fancy the other person).

I am starting to remember why I hated dating so much.

I see no difference between the two. I want neither on a date.

She didn't say unsolicited.

As in it wasn’t asked for?

But someone touching your arm on a date is hardly that. If it does turn out it was 'unsolicited'...whatever the fuck that even means in this context...so what? It's a little arm touch xD

But you are not taking the point that for you it’s fine but for others it isn’t. That’s my point, everyone is different.

Is a touch on the arm “intimacy” or “inappropriate”?

It all depends on the person getting touched doesn’t it, which is the point.

So do you think that men are reticent on dates, not because they are worried about being accused of assault, but because they don’t want to upset the subset of women who think any unsolicited touch is inappropriate?