Have men become more...repressed (dating?)

[Pinkbonbon]

OK this is a weird one but has anyone else noticed a shift where men are not kissing till like 3 dates in now?

And, last time I dated I also noticed, basic polite compliments of 'you look nice' seemed to have vanished too (que paranoia xD).

It just seems so different from a decade ago. Maybe because I'm getting older. But I also wondered if it's just because times have changed.

I'm finding IM the one who wants to be tactile on dates now but worried about freaking THEM out.

Like I think because I've been approaching things in the manner of just wanting to go out, do a little drinks and a bit of snogging and see where things go. I'm not just looking for short term but, I'd like to sample a little, see if there's good chemistry.

But it's like men have become repressed!
Either that or I've become scary xD
Just wondered if anyone else was noticing similar.

If I feel its appropriate, yes and they've always for example, taken my hand when offered.

^^ the world is moving to positive consent now - this is big in UNI now

Too true. No bloke makes a move until he is 101% certain of where he stands.
It's called "self preservation".

There has been a lot of conversations on SM about this where the women don’t feel like they’re pursued as much as they would like/men not putting the effort in as much as they would have a few years ago.

And the men seem to have the same answers that they don’t want to give off the wrong signals/be too pushy etc for fear they’ll come across as a creep/perv.

Maybe the didn't fancy you or maybe they're just not that type of bloke?

It's definitely a post-Me Too thing. Men are now hyper-aware of respecting boundaries, not being creepy, not being pervy, not being too forward. Which is better in some respects than men who trample over your boundaries and feel entitled to be creepy/pervy like they were 15 years ago (and I gather that kind of behaviour is alive and well anyway).

And positive consent is all very well but when it comes to the crunch actually clinically saying words like "can I kiss you/can I compliment you" is cringe and awkward.

On top of that a lot of people (not just men) are not great at reading (or trusting) social signals in the first place which rules out anything happening organically. And on top of that anyone who's been on OLD for any length of time probably won't have sky-high confidence.

I'm a big fan of a meta conversation so I'd just use all the above as a talking point (in the abstract rather than specific), which would enable me to convey my personal boundaries, I guess.

You've probably just changed who you're dating compared to a decade ago. The confidence and suave guys will make a move, the more reserved and respectful type (who have probably been less successful in dating) might not.

I can't believe "can I hold your hand?" or "can I kiss you now?" has been put forward as the solution, on the thread. It's cringey as fuck and would turn women off.

Im nearly 50 and looking back - I think I've almost always made the first move. Spent some time internet dating two years ago after end of long relationship - kissed/slept with three and it was me who made the first move every time (though one of them was very "cuddly/holding hands" from the start). With my current partner who I met out dancing - it was me who suddenly decided to kiss him at the bar on our first date, and me who asked to go home with him two hours later. He recently said that if I hadn't made the first move he would have waited until date two or three to try anything.

I do think a lot of men prefer for women to set the pace and I'm totally fine with that. I probably don't react well to sexually forward men anyway - I have a low tolerance of anything I perceive as potentially sleazy.

But I do enjoy non sleazy compliments and my partner was very complimentary from the off, and very appreciative in how he looked at me.

100% - this , I think the days of men “chasing” women like in some kind of awful Benny Hill skit should be over really

I think this is one of rare times that men’s behaviour has changed and women now need to catch up and put in more effort ( and about time really)

Then I think you will have to get used to be being turned off, positive/ affirmative consent is pushed lhard in education now , so the next generation of decent men should be asking these questions

And it's also healthy that it's now acceptable for women to say what they want and act on it in a dating context, without being viewed as wanton for expressing sexual interest in a man.

Long way to go though; on most MN dating threads 90% of posters insist the man has to pursue in every respect because (insert cliche about being old-fashioned or when a man wants something you'll know).

Yes 100% agree, there is so much rubbish spouted on this site about how men should be doing this that or the other, society is constantly evolving and those days (should) be over

Nothing is more of a turn-off than a passive man. Women don’t want to do the chasing - that’s the point. We want a man who takes charge and who demonstrates that they’re willing to take a risk. Not some pathetic low-T dude who waits for a woman to kiss him. Fuck that shit.

Dear god

I assure you I have no problems pursuing or, being the one to initiate. I'm relatively extroverted, but not in an in your face way or anything. Consider myself an effective communicator too.

But the thing is, the vibe just seems off with some guys these days.

I also have no problem with being asked before physical contact. Though tbh I mean body language pretty much indicates what ppl want in terms of that imo. But I can understand why guys ask first in this day and age.

I'd happily chalk it up to them not being that into me. We can't be everyone's cup of tea. But it's...not that. Because they initiate texts, and ask for next dates etc... it's just, the vibe on them is different. Like they have a barrier up or something.

I guess it's hard to explain to people who haven't experienced it.

Like I say I'm dating a lovely chap right now, I don't want to generalise to all blokes. Or say there's necessarily a wring way to date.

I just don't think there's anything wrong with expecting the guy to do a bit of 'woo-ing'. Imo 'Let's abandon all the supposed to's' is just code for 'let's let men get away with the bare minimum''.

No, no I don't think I'll do that.

Yes it's important to match the energy and be a decent person in dating but I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting the man to be a little chivalrous. To treat you like his date, not his work buddy.

I think it’s really nice to be asked. I would also ask.

there was an episode of AJLT where Carrie seemed cross about being asked so I guess it’s a polarising one.

fine if it happens naturally but I’m guessing that’s a lot more complicated in an online dating scenario?

Not surprising, is it?
Our young adult son is really worried about overstepping.

It's not difficult not to put your hands on someone's privates/accidently shag them though is it?

No ones going to cry 'me too' for an ill timed hand hold/hug/kiss a few dates in. Especially if they ask first, which apparently is the done thing these days.

Imo the only people complaining about me too, are creepy fuckers who want to make out women are hysterical. So if they do do something they can give it 'women cry me too for everything these days'.

I can see how young boys might believe this narrative of course. Due to underlying societal mysoginy and fear-moungering. But I don't agree it has much basis in reality.

Women still don't tend to report actual sex crimes. Let alone borderline creepy dates.

I think men are so bloody worried about consent and playing by the rules. There's so many dos and don'ts involved in dating now.

Back in the day, I would early on have a conversation about them just being them. Here are contact boundaries other than that crack on. (As I'm not 1 am or before 6am) for them not worry about playing by the rules. To do what felt right. And if it didn't feel right, we probably were better off seeing other people. And, to never, ever ask to kiss me. Ffs talk about the number 1 way to turn me off.

I think the art of body language is also falling by the way side. Too much time spent online/behind screens. Generally speaking, your online/screen persona is not who you actually are. I've not done online dating. Does that comes across? Their great online and then in person, just meh?

hell, that’s one hell of an over reaction! @Pinkbonbon

He’s a good, gentle person. He would never do any of the things you suggest. I would be more worried about more experienced young women pushing him into things he wasn’t comfortable with.

As I said previously, it’s not hard to read body language, or it shouldn’t be.

this is why I hate OLD - why can’t people just interact with each other like normal people?

and even if someone tried to kiss me and I wasn’t feeling it I wouldn’t report them for assault for god’s sake. Randomly groping someone maybe, but a kiss? It’s all about intention isn’t it. If he’s misread, it’s awkward at worst. But that’s it.

If you read my final paragraph you would see I'm not lumping your teen in with the weirdos.

He's just young, so susceptible to the narrative pushed by society that women will report him for so much as looking at them wrong.

Most grown ups realise this isn't the case.

Maybe they've just heard what impossible standards the MN dating fraternity have in what a man should or shouldn't do and realise they might as well not even bother trying because the dater will be told to LTB! whatever the poor sod does

I'm a married man, so it doesn't really apply to me, but now that I think about it, I'd probably be the same as how many above are describing it.

There's so much media around consent, equality, feminism etc, that I'd actually be afraid to date. I know it's how it 'should' be, but I'd be more anxious on a date than enthusiastic now.

Should I open doors, or would she consider that oppressive? Should I be traditional and offer to pay, or would that be offensive? Is a quick walk in the park or coffee indicative of poor financial status and a sign of not taking her seriously, or vice versa, is extravagance considered too serious? If I message, should I express feelings, or is that love-bombing? If we're on a bench, should I be proactive and lean in for a kiss, or would that be 'rape' because I haven't had official consent? I remember someone a few days ago saying how they fancied someone in the office and I replied that if I were the man, I wouldn't touch her with a ten-foot pole... Even if you're 99% sure, and you misread those signs, the next thing you know you're facing HR, and she's on here saying how there are no safe spaces. You can't even look up in the gym anymore!

I used to consider myself so proactive and approachable before, but I'd be terrified of ending up on TikTok as one of 'those' guys now. I'm being genuine, that's legitimately how I feel.

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