Have men become more...repressed (dating?)

[Pinkbonbon]

OK this is a weird one but has anyone else noticed a shift where men are not kissing till like 3 dates in now?

And, last time I dated I also noticed, basic polite compliments of 'you look nice' seemed to have vanished too (que paranoia xD).

It just seems so different from a decade ago. Maybe because I'm getting older. But I also wondered if it's just because times have changed.

I'm finding IM the one who wants to be tactile on dates now but worried about freaking THEM out.

Like I think because I've been approaching things in the manner of just wanting to go out, do a little drinks and a bit of snogging and see where things go. I'm not just looking for short term but, I'd like to sample a little, see if there's good chemistry.

But it's like men have become repressed!
Either that or I've become scary xD
Just wondered if anyone else was noticing similar.

But that’s what we have now, a generation of young males who don’t know or are not equipped to become functional men

It reminds me of this meme

Like body language generally isn't hard to read.
Unless maybe your neurodiverse. Its pretty obvious when someone's up for a bit of a kiss etc.

No it isn't.

It's near the end of date two, she's suddenly standing very close too you, she's making lots of eye contact, she's playfully touching your arm or chest, she's looking at your lips with a playful smile.

If you're missing those fucking signals its not a 'can I kiss you?' you need, it's to give up and buy 20 cats.

*correction, adopt 20 cats. Adopt don't shop.

It'd be the ultimate 'ick' for a lot of women.

Beckybarefoot wasn’t being nasty

But that's society these days. You need absolute consent. It has been pushed for a LOT, and now it's here. As I said above, I've seen numerous posts on MN of women in the office saying men have asked them out and the environment changing. For all situations, men are being told to not approach, and that women will tell you when they're interested.

It draws a parallel to that side I hate about America. They 'tend' to ask whether you're in a relationship. Over here, if you date, kiss, spend weekends together, it's naturally assumed you're exclusive. In America, the 'trend' is that until they ask whether it's official, it is assumed you're seeing others. The 'nothing is happening until it's been mutually agreed by both parties, otherwise it is considered controlling, assertive, sexist' etc attitude.

The world is becoming gradually more equal, but equality smooths out both ends of the scale. If men are being told they are equal to women (which they are), and that there should be no assertion, dominance/taking the lead, control, etc, then it stands to reason that they will expect women to ask them out, pay for dates, give up on engagement rings etc to even out the status quo.

Sorry if this sounds like a badly written mills and boons!

Two people have been talking a while. Their heads are close. They’re both smiling, laughing. The woman licks her lips. The man leans in a little, saying nothing, making eye contact. The woman says nothing, doesn’t pull away, maybe closes her eyes.

A short, slow kiss at that point does not require consent. If either person pulls away, then leave it at that. If their head remains close or eyes remain closed, continue.

I don’t get the impression that the world is full of women falsely accusing men of sexual assault and innocent men getting caught in the crossfire. Reality is, the world is full of rapey fucks and women have to deal with them. If men are in a work or friendship group situation, then no, they shouldn’t make assumptions about women wanting any kind of sexual advance from them at all. But if they’re on a date, then they should definitely think that is a possibility. I don’t think a single short kiss attempt on something clearly defined as a date could ever really be seen as sexual assault, provided the man isn’t doing anything aggressive, like also pinning the woman against the wall at the same time and providing he responds appropriately to the woman’s reaction. At the very worst, the man had misjudged how the date is going and put them both in a slightly embarrassing position. But if the woman says “stop, I don’t want that” and the man stops, that’s not a sexual assault.

One short kiss, a short pause to see if it was well received, and take it from there. If you want to make sure then “Shall I keep going?” or “Tell me if you want me to stop” is less cringey than “Can I kiss you?”

It’s not rocket surgery.

Women can’t get a conviction when they’re raped and left with bruises all over their body. Nothing bad is going to happen to a man who leaned in for an unwanted peck on a date.

You are living in some kind of Mills and Boon fantasy land, men ( and male behaviours) have been so demonised by society over the last decade - men are not allowed to be men anymore and you expect them to suddenly change , you don’t live in the real world

modern men are scared of women ( not physically), but more about the perception of been seen pushy & forward - it no wonder they retreat to the internet and online porn - that’s not going to play fucking stupid body language games , if you want to kiss a bloke after a date then just fucking kiss him ( with his approval) and stop moaning about it and playing dumb arse games.

we ( society) are looking for different male behaviours, now that you have them you are still not happy, time for you to buy 20 cats as that’s the only way you will be happy

It’s bloody insulting, really, when men pretend Me Too was about women complaining about men doing perfectly normal things. It was always about men perving on their work colleagues, or some kind of power imbalance, or actual sexual assault, about not stopping when asked to. It was about putting hands on women’s bodies without being asked, not about trying for one kiss at the end of a pleasant date.

Men haven’t been demonised - huge numbers of them have been demons.

Men are generally much worse at reading body language and signals than women are because that's not what childhood and adolescent friendships between boys are based on. So when you combine that with fearing not having consent (for teenage boys and young adults, even the suggestion of an unwanted pass can ruin someone's life), it's hardly surprising men now err on the side of caution

And no, not all men are like that. Only about 4 million of them in the U.K., according to the met chief. Not all men are like that, but every woman has met a man like that. That’s what Me Too was about.

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jun/04/met-chief-says-millions-of-men-are-danger-to-women-and-girls-in-england-and-wales

How does a suggestion of an unwanted pass ruin a boys life? I work in schools and I haven’t seen any boys lives ruined, and let’s face it, over the amount of time I’ve been teaching, a good few of those boys will have committed actual rapes.

In the same amount of time, I have seen young girls getting into lots of difficulty with nude photos of themselves. Whilst some boys are worrying about making unwanted passes, plenty of others are still pressurising girls for sexy photos and then distributing them.

Edited to remove terrible typo

Nude photos, not nice photos! That’s the worst typo I’ve ever made! Aaargh!

Many men are terrified these days. They can’t even say you look nice, we can’t even say we like their outfit either. It’s bonkers, a miracle anyone gets together

But your story will never happen

Society and feminism has told girls and women ( quite rightly so ) that they do anything they want and be anything they want and we now we have all these confident outgoing smart clever women .

Society now tells boys and men that they cannot do what they want, they mustn’t upset women- everything needs consent now

so your 2 people are never going to kiss, the woman will have a good job and career and the bloke will work at McDonalds and they will never meet

No, society told men to stop being rapey, sexually abusive fucks.

They haven’t done that yet.

So the worst thing about overstepping and not asking for consent isn’t about how it’ll affect the woman, it’s how it makes men look bad? Isn’t that one of the rules of misogyny?

That's progress surely than someone who you were never planning a second date wirh, lunging at you at the end!

I work with graduates mostly and there has been a sea change over the years, we see more young women and less young men, the women are confident and outgoing and self assured, the men are almost scared of their own shadows, they hold back and almost paranoid about not being seen to be taking over or being forceful or pushy.
the generation of young men I see are almost scared of being men- that must come from somewhere, school, society, university ?

Is this an age thing? I'm in my 50s, dating men around my own age, and several have complimented how I look, my dress, tried to hold hands, and so on. They've certainly not been backward in asking to come back to mine or anything. But I also don't mind being asked for a kiss - that has happened too.

The creepiest one kept going on about women's boundaries and how he wouldn't do anything unwanted, yet as we walked down the street, kept trying to touch my bare back (summer dress) and would then snatch his arm away as if remembering himself, which was probably more annoying than if he'd confidently left his arm there, so I could have said, "please don't, I'm not comfortable with it," but it was one of the least things against him.

Maybe this is why men don’t want to date women anymore, ?
even if he checks in for consent he will be called misogynistic? 🤷🏼‍♂️