DB wants to stay in our house whilst away DH will say no

[sewknit56]

My DB and DH don't really get on due to lots of different factors but my DB has asked if him and his 2 children can stay in our house for a week whilst we are on holiday. DH hates my brother and know he won't be happy but I have said yes to DB as he is going through an extremely messy divorce and his ex wife has treated him like . She was the main learner and she left him and he is really struggling financially. When they were married due to her job they were very well off and enjoyed a lovely lifestyle and my DB wants to be able to take his kids on holiday this year but has no money to do this but staying in our house and enjoying the amenities in a different area will be lovely for his kids.

I know my DH will not be happy but it is my house too and I have no problem. So who has the final say?? Surely he is my brother and it is my house too but my DH will argue he doesn't want him in the house.

I would say sewknit56 you are being unreasonable because you use the term niblings! Honest saying their sex doesn’t change the thread and won’t unmask you in the real world.
Your brothers money troubles are not uncommon during or after divorce. Your husband does sound a bit my way or the highway but it is your (plural) house and both should be in agreement on a decision like this.

Or maybe her husband just isn't a very nice person? Seeing as he doesn't have much time for his own family, doesn't like her family and doesn't like half her friends. Does seem to really like the BILs ex wife though and would chat to her all day.......

I think you're husband sounds like a horrible arse OP and you sound like you're at the other end of the scale where you allow anyone and everyone to take advantage or you and walk all over you because you feel you always have to be nice and look after everyone else.

IMO only knowing a teeny tiny bit of your life I'd be concerned that you have much bigger problems with your horrible DH than just whether your brother can stay or not.

This might come as a shock, but men don’t wank everywhere we go and I certainly wouldn’t do ‘that’ in a family member’s bed!

The situation is directly comparable to a woman staying - we’ve spent decades trying to move away from blatant sexism so let’s keep moving in the right direction rather than posting nonsense like this.

But she’s worried she won’t get her own way, rather than anything else.

Correct. If it’s a change to how things usually are (such as getting a pet or having a baby) then both people need to agree.

The same logic applies here

Regardless of whether I didn't get on either someone or not, I wouldn't want anyone stopping in my house!!!

It would make me very anxious!

@Deathbyfluffy Gettibg a pet or having a baby affects both partners and permanently. Someone living in your house for a week doesn't.

I suppose my main question is - is should I have to ask his permission?

It's not about 'permission', it's about working as a team, respecting the other person's right to have an opinion and, above all, coming to an agreement that you can both live with. Is it really worth falling out with your DH in order to give your DB and his kids a holiday?

My DH is easygoing, but I would be a bit nervous to ask something of him that I know he definitely wouldn't be ok with, when he's made his position clear, and I know I'd be pissing him off by asking. Same would go the other way I suspect. I wouldn't be nervous asking him if my DB could come and stay, because although they aren't close, there's no bad blood - he might still say he wasn't comfortable with it for some reason, and I would respect that. But if say, I had a friend or a family member I knew he absolutely couldn't stand, I wouldn't even ask him as it's unfair to put him in that position, it would be obvious to me that he would not be happy about it, so I'd just make an excuse to that person.

OP being nervous to ask him doesn't make him abusive as some PPs are suggesting.

It effects the status quo though. The expectation that they can bring people, even ones you don't like, into your home, whenever for whatever reason, much against one parties wishes. So it's exactly like a pet or a baby in that it isn't fair to just drop it on somebody who obviously doesn't want it.

Lying about it is even worse. It's disrespectful, deceitful and cowardly.

Yabu OP.
I'd hate anyone staying in my house whilst I was away even if I liked them.

The victim narrative you've done about your brother makes me think the story is very one sided.

Anotherparkingthread
I agree with you.

If my DH had a relative who I thought was always taking advantage and putting on DH, and DH was letting the relative walk all over him then:

• DH agreeing to the relative they could stay in our house when we are away (even sleeping in our bed), knowing how I felt and that I'd not like it.
• Relative asking DH separate to me, knowing there's conflict between us and I'm likely to object
• Doing the above without talking to me because they're centring the relative over openness in our marriage
• Considering using family funds (as most people aren't so independently wealthy that they can give large amounts of money away without affecting the family unit) to buy the relative a holiday
• Doing all the above with but think of the children... It's not relative's fault... Relative has made some bad decisions but I'm a kind person would come across as manipulative to me.

are all things that would cement my perspective that the relative is a piss taker and my DH needs to have some proper boundaries.

Everyone is different and has different lines and boundaries in a marriage, but my personal boundaries are that DH and I are a team and we are a unit.

But its not a request! She already decided. She is worried about informing her husband of a fait accompli not worried about having a discussion.

The problem is though that there needs to be a huge fall out or argument anyway.

OP could maybe have started the difficult conversation with “When you make this enormous demand on me that my family not be here I feel (a) brow beaten (b) like you are actively using this as an opportunity to damage my relationship with my brother (c) that you are enjoying ‘getting one over” him and me (d) that you have zero respect for me or my feelings. Can you propose a way forward here that might cause less damage to our relationship than you’re currently doing.”

Like some on this thread it seems his answer to her is (usually?) “Get fucked”. She doesn’t really need to know any more about how he perceives her.

Of course you have to both be in agreement!

The fact you know he is likely to say no makes this worse to say yes without asking.

Your DH has every right to privacy and to not allow anyone to stay unsupervised in your home. If he was going away and you were at home with DB then I would be more inclined to say it isn't affecting DH as much.

I love my siblings but there is only one who I would consider letting stay by themselves and only because we are really close and stay at each others homes a lot (never unsupervised though).

Brilliantly put! 👏🏼

OP could maybe have started the difficult conversation with “When you make this enormous demand on me that my family not be here I feel (a) brow beaten (b) like you are actively using this as an opportunity to damage my relationship with my brother (c) that you are enjoying ‘getting one over” him and me (d) that you have zero respect for me or my feelings. Can you propose a way forward here that might cause less damage to our relationship than you’re currently doing
See this is where perceptions probably differ because if my DH took that approach to me, I'd think he was being quite manipulative. It comes across to me as "I know you have an issue with my brother so I'm going to put myself in victim position so that when you say no to my brother you're actually being mean to me. Even though there's no issue with my family other than this conflict with my brother, I'm going to present it as you trying to ruin my family relationships. When you express a boundary regarding my brother, that's not respecting me and you're browbeating me. So how about we find a solution that places my brother's wants above our marriage because I've actually already said yes to him so you need to find a way forward".

We see so many threads on here where men are centring their family members at the expense of their partners, getting walked all over by families, guilting their partners to roll over, say nothing and the overwhelming consensus is that it's a DH problem and he needs to get some boundaries in place.

A better approach in my opinion would be for the OP not to agree to things behind her DH's back and have a conversation that's more like "I understand you and my brother don't get on. I want to support my brother and understand you have concerns he's taking advantage. Let's talk together about how we can navigate this as a couple so we're on the same page."

It very much depends why.
Is your brother responsible? Will he take care of your home?

OP has said:
I trust my brother and know he would be respectful. He would treat the house with respect like he does his own just like we do when we stay in other peoples houses.

The problem with that approach is that it’s off the scale manipulative, and doesn’t acknowledge in general slightest that the OP herself is damaging the relationship by putting what appears to be a feckless brother ahead of her husband

This isn’t really a clash of preferences - it’s a pretty fundamental clash of values. OPs DH doesn’t see extended family as important. OP does. Neither are right, but I couldn’t be in a relationship with someone who didn’t value extended family and then attempted to impose those values on me.

I would probably try to talk to him about it and suggest some compromises (eg can the kids share one of your kids bedrooms and your brother sleep in the other child’s room, leaving your room free?). But he doesn’t sound like the kind of dh who WILL make compromises. At the end of the day you are entitled to have whatever kind of relationship you with with your family of origin, regardless of whether your dh agrees with it or not.

which is the real problem. When you have one person who’s rigid and the other who is easy going what happens is that the easy going one gives way every time. Not a recipe for success.

I don’t know what the solution is in the long term but this would be a real problem for me. Couples therapy?

@pikkumyy77 thank you :) I don’t think of it as a fait accompli as OP has backed down from even asking. It seems the brother and children will not be staying. OP cannot bring herself to ask.

The DH often slags off OPs nearest and dearest. That’s a horrible thing to experience and an awful trait in any partner. The DH sounds absolutely insufferable.

OP please trust your gut - you really should be able to expect and ask for a family member coming to stay. This is really no big deal. It seems very mean of your husband.

Discussions around these arrangements should NOT be causing you stress and anxiety.

But then OP says We have always had people (family and very good friends) stay in our home whilst we have been on holiday (my parents, DH's brother, cousins etc )and we have had stayed in other peoples homes - whilst they have been away. It's just because he doesn't get on with my brother I know he won't like it.
So he quite happily lets other family members (both his and hers) stay in their home when they go away. It's just this one person he really doesn't like and doesn't want in his own personal space. I personally think that's entirely reasonable.
There are people I wouldn't want in my home, especially without me and especially sleeping in my bed.

Not only would I not like him to stay in my home whilst I was on holiday, I would fear he would be very slow to leave when I came back.

"Oh just a couple of more days... so the cousins can spend more time together"

"Oh yes, I have been looking at other places to rent, but xyz reason means I can't go yet"

"Oh yes, bound to have sorted out <issue> before the kids go back to school in September"

"But it's worked out so well - we should have christmas as a big family !"

I think the problem here mainly is that stupidly I didn't ask DH as I probably knew he would say no. My brothers personal circumstances shouldn't really make any difference - he is my brother and we are close and as DH isn't close to his family he finds it really hard because I am quite close to my extended family and I think he probably thought when we married my family would become less important to me. DH isn't close to his family at all. If it was a family friend or one of his friends - he wouldn't have any qualms as I said this has been normal for us as it has been for many years. My brother and his kids are house trained!!

I have never ever thought of having people in my house when we are away as odd or abnormal as its something we've always done - I just don't like being dictated to by my DH about who and who I can't have in my house.