He finally told me why he hasn't been able to tell me he loves me...

[Tearroller]

My ex husband of 1 year came over tonight to talk about us potentially getting back together after we recently went on a few dates to see if we could revive our marriage. His request. I was saddened to end my marriage but needed so much more from him: love, sex, affection and commitment- all of which were missing. We have continued to get along and raise our children pretty well as a coparenting team. So, I was open to the discussion.

By the end of the conversation, I just feel so upset. First we both discussed our core values which are quite different in some ways, so we acknowledged that there could be some issues there. I talked about the things I needed from our marriage- all the things that were missing- him telling me he loves me, physical touch etc.

He managed explain for the first time (thankfully but upsettingly) that the reason he has felt unable to love me or be affectionate with me in recent years is because of these values. One of my values is freedom and primarily having the freedom to express myself, my feelings, my thoughts. He told me that he finds this unattractive and that because I am so open and expressive and will speak up about things I feel are wrong it has caused him to feel less attracted to me and unable to tell me he loves me. This value is such a big part of me that him basically implying that he sees this characteristic as ugly has really hurt my feelings. Although I am glad he has told me.

What do you make of this?
My head is spinning.
I feel like he has never really loved me for me if this is how he feels.
Will any man ever value this characteristic in a future relationship?

It's one thing to debate and discuss opposing viewpoints. But if you're one of those people who are perpetually angry with everything that's wrong in the world, that amount of negativity is a very draining and unattractive personality trait. I know a few people who are like this, and I don't know how their partners put up with it.

It's impossible to tell just from hearing one partner's viewpoint, but ultimately it sounds like the two of you are just incompatible.

I have made no assumptions about OP, in fact my post is the exact opposite. I have said that the OP needs to provide more info on what she means by freedom to express her opinions. If she starts lecturing everyone on her fringe political beliefs at every single opportunity then it's a behaviour that EXH is fairly to saying is preventing him being a loving husband. If she wants the right to tell him how she feels and take and equal part in discussions and express emotion and opinion and he's telling her to be good little woman like the Harry Enfield "Women, know your limits!! sketches then the guy needs to be kicked in to touch.

We just don't know, and won't know until we hear a bit more detail and specifics.

She doesn't say anything being inappropriate, rude, judgmental and over the top does she ?

Well no, because typically people who say stuff like this don't actually recognise it as judgemental and rude- thats the entire point! If they did, they wouldnt hold those opinions in the first place LOL. They hold those opinions because they think they are right. I've yet to meet anyone who spouted a bigoted hateful opinion and then clarified afterwards "oh, but I recognise I'm being rude and judgemental".

Noone is saying OP is in the wrong, simply that its impossible to judge this situation until we know what kind of views she wants to express.

Huge difference between her talking with passion about peace in the Middle East and her spending hours every day criticising and gossiping about the neighbours, her in laws, etc

He's talking absolute bollocks. He's trying to put his issues onto you. But it's not you, it's him.

really hope no children are involved

He doesn't give you 'love, affection or commitment' and your values are fundamentally incompatible - why do you want to make things work? He literally doesn't sound like he even likes you - I don't say that to be cruel, I just can't work out why you've married someone who isn't willing to give you the very bare bones of human connection, never mind a marriage. You deserve better.

First thoughts are you are actively allowing this man back into your life to humiliate you and hurt you, so stop doing that.

Secondly, being open and honest about things is always going to annoy someone who wants to be shut down and closeted emotionally. Of course it’s a turn off to him. He wants to control you and can’t. Boo hoo. Find a way to co-parent with him without the emotional threads. Find someone who is fun and outgoing and expressive and enjoy your life. Expect him to try and ruin it though, he sounds expert at snuffing out your flame, so protect it fiercely.

I don't believe him for a second. He's picked on something you are already insecure about and made you worry about it. I'd be more worried he's emotionally stunted- he can't show affection, emotion or love, that's kind of a much bigger personality flaw in a relationship than being a bit outspoken on occasion! I just don't believe him because when you love a person, you tend to love the whole of them and put up with their flaws, it's very rare you pick on one thing and then detach from them as a result of that (bar abuse or something).

He's messing with your head and it's been successful, now you re worrying no-one will like you ever which is ridiculous.

Why do you want to go back with a man who is emotionally deficient and can't give you the love you need? That's the question you need to be answering, perhaps with a therapist as a sounding board.

My feelings exactly, Also, sounds like bollocks to me.

He's an ex for a reason - you simply don't want the same things in a relationship.

Keep co-parenting well together and move on.

People are making a lot of assumptions.

"Freedom" could mean anything from "I'm going for a coffee with my friends" to staying out all night, not calling, and turning up pissed the next morning. It could be anything from a gym class twice a week to buggering off without notice all Saturday to go cycling. If someone is exercising their freedom in the latter ways, there is a problem.

"Expressing myself" could mean anything from wanting to be heard or dressing in a slightly kooky way, to constantly taking over the TV and ranting, or being unable to have a conversation with someone without becoming argumentative. It could mean wanting to learn a language or paint, or it could mean jacking in your job in order to pursue your own interests. As above, the first ones are fine, the latter not.

Until OP clarifies exactly what's going on, we really can't say either way. Regardless, I don't think the problem is OP wanting freedom or expressing herself.

When I was young and first married I was more compliant but as I matured as a wife mother and employee and business partner my confidence grew.

I know my DH sometimes misses the partner who would go along with everything, on the other hand he does appreciate my business acumen.

He did say once "You never do as you're told these days". and he's right.

Unfortunately in @Tearroller case her ex can't accept that we all change as we mature it's called wisdom. He's stuck in the past.

@Sparklfairy - well done for turning the insult back on him.

my DH is often surprised when I speak up in similar ways m, but some men like OPs are just stuck in the bloody dark ages.

So he’s ‘unable’ to love you/ be affectionate because you express your feelings? Or is he actually WITHOLDING love and affection as a tool to shut you up because he doesn’t want to have to have any responsibility for whatever needs/emotions you are expressing? You either love someone or you don’t. Is he after a Stepford wife or something?

I really do feel like you need to keep him as an ex.

I mean, if he doesn't love you because of your personality then there's not really anything to rekindle and make work.
Fwiw I think he sounds full of shit.

For some reason the Sistine Chapel Screamer makes me laugh still...I went to College with a lovely Italian girl who would cry at the smallest thing { if she was happy, even!} or if she saw something lovely.

She reminded me too of the SCS.

It is a real phenomenon: 'Stendhal Syndrome'

''I was in a sort of ecstasy, from the idea of being in Florence, close to the great men whose tombs I had seen. Absorbed in the contemplation of sublime beauty . . . I reached the point where one encounters celestial sensations . . . Everything spoke so vividly to my soul. Ah, if I could only forget. I had palpitations of the heart, what in Berlin they call 'nerves'. Life was drained from me. I walked with the fear of falling.''

One of my values is freedom and primarily having the freedom to express myself, my feelings, my thoughts. He told me that he finds this unattractive and that because I am so open and expressive and will speak up about things I feel are wrong it has caused him to feel less attracted to me and unable to tell me he loves me.

You are fundamentally incompatible and you are best off without him.

Obviously without knowing you, it's impossible to say what this really means. For all we know, you might be the sort of person who (eg) can't have a conversation with friends without having an argument and is a stranger to the concept of picking your battles.

However, even if you were a bit of a nightmare (which I doubt you are, but anyway) your ex is being a manipulative prick to cite that as a reason for him being unable to say the words 'I love you'. You are who you are, and he presumably knew that when you got together, so basically he's been an arsehole. If you can only love someone when they remove an entire chunk of their personality, you don't love them at all.

He's basically saying 'Yeah, I'll throw you some little crumbs of affection but only if you change your personality for me' which is awful behaviour on his part. You deserve better than him. And of course plenty of men will not mind this trait/value in the slightest. This man is not the man for you.

I don't think it matters if the OP is 'too' loud or assertive or outspoken - a man who doesn't love you for who you are will not love you if you change for him. Life is not a feature from Jackie magazine ("Is he a romantic? Wear flowing clothes in soft colours!") 🤢

I'd bet he went out looking for someone more submissive and biddable who'd give him a cushier life and - surprise - there were no takers!

Ok, he doesn't love you.
Why does he suggest getting back together?

You can’t change yourself so your relationship is doomed . I honestly see no future if this so something he deslikes

You’ve already split up and there are kids involved. My honest take is stop messing about, the time for will they/wont they has passed.

It hasn’t worked and after discussion you can see how different your values and what you need from a relationship really are.

Knowing what you know, why would go back and put your kids through the mess of this again?

Keep the focus on coparenting and move on from the relationship.

Wow. I've only just managed to come back to the thread after a busy morning. I wasn't expecting to read so many responses.

In response to the freedom thing, I'll elaborate but don't want to say too much for fear of outing.

-The poster who describes the coat hanger man- I am just like her. I grew up with a very mysoginistic father and brothers who put women down so I'm the first to speak up about that sort of thing. I find it disgraceful. I also share a lot of feminist material on social media, a lot of it to do with domestic inequality. I'm a big fan of Zawn and share a lot of her posts. My ex husband told me that he found the sharing of feminist material insulting because people would think that I was implying that he wasn't pulling his weight (he wasn't). Friends have also voiced their own husbands irritations with my posts from Zawns page and similar. I share maybe one post a fortnight. Nothing too in your face.

• we used to have a shared I-pad and he once turned it on to find a thread on mumsnet which I had written about him. I suspect he had gone snooping in my history to be honest. The thread was about how unloved I was feeling in our marriage. He was furious that I had "shared our private life publicly" even though it's all anonymous! I'd tried speaking to him about how I'd been feeling over and over again but always got shut down. He then shut me down even more when he saw the post and ignored me for days. Not facing the true issue at all. He then posted himself his own version of what had happened on my thread and posters had a go at him for caring more about his "side" than about my feelings.

-His sisters and mother made derogatory comments about my feminist-type social media shares for years and took to blanking my presence in the end so I eventually asked them what their problem was and told them I found them rude and ignorant. He was furious at me for being "rude" and didn't ask them or talk to them about how they were being towards me at all. His family mentality was always shut up and put up. I was there to be seen and not heard in every sense of the word and to listen sweetly to all their achievements and life anecdotes as if I wasn't a human with a life myself. I had to have many years of therapy because of his whole family dynamic which was hard to escape from. It has been great to be free of that.

-Saying all of this, I am definitely opinionated when it comes to things I'm passionate about, I couldn't care less about the neighbours or choice of cars, or gossiping really but I do get a bee in my bonnet when I deem something as unfair. Fairness is another core value of mine. It eats me up a little when there is some sort of injustice. I have been known to write letters to my kids' school to complain a couple of times about things. I also run the union at work, something else I'm quite passionate about.

I think whilst some people value this side of me others likely don't because I probably challenge their comfort zone but I'm sort of ok with that. It's one of the downsides of speaking out about stuff but I never intend to be cruel, I just want things to be fair and right which will inevitably ruffle feathers.

I think when DH met me I was probably a bit of a complainer which he just put up with but with age, I've become more positive about speaking up politely and more of a doer and sharer if things don't feel right so I acknowledge that I have probably changed. He never liked me speaking to anyone about the issues in our relationship but didn't engage in a reciprocal conversation with me either.

To add, DH never liked me speaking up to anyone about anything. He'd sulk if he found out I'd complained to the school, if I ever wrote a negative review about something (which is rare as I try to be positive when I write reviews) and for not wanting to speak to my brothers anymore when they made insulting remarks about my body and for saying I was lazy for working part-time when the children were little.

I think I have definitely had more conflict around me than the average person but because of my own background and the male influences I've had around me, it's been difficult to avoid. Also, his family are stoic, cold and passive aggressive so there have been many relationship challenges to deal with, but he blames me for a lot.

It sounds like you’re not compatible.

What is the tone of the things you share OP - do they come across as aggressive?
(I think there is a place for agression sometimes btw)