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Original poster

This whole male/female platonic friendship thing

192 replies

Wahtnow · 06/12/2023 10:15

I so want to believe it's possible, but my experience is that men don't really want it.

Years ago I worked in a male dominated industry, I avoided getting close to most of the men because it was blatantly obviously none of them were interested in knowing me as a friend, or even a friendly colleague tbh. There was one man who seemed "safe" a dedicated family man, absolutely committed to his wife, we became good friends through a shared interest and for years it was all good, until it wasn't, and he kissed me at the end of a work function, when I thought he was being a genuinely decent bloke seeing me back to my hotel.

And now it's happened again. I have a mixed group of friends, some married, some single. Based on my previous experience, I have been so careful not to become especially close to the married men or to spend time alone with them, we get along absolutely fine in the group, but my close friends within it are the women and a couple of single men.

We've just been away to an event for a few days, tbf lots of drinking involved and varying stamina levels. Of 12 of us, 6 had left the bar fairly early and a couple of hours later married man said he was going, me and one other said we'd walk back with him. The other (single man) got distracted by another bar on the way back leaving me to walk with married man. All good, I feel completely safe with him and there's never been any reason for anyone to feel concerned about it.

We staggered home (large air BnB) made a cup of tea, sat on the sofa, half the party already in bed in rooms very close and the rest expected back at some point. And then he makes his move. I did not see that coming at all, up until that point it felt exactly like if I'd been with a female friend drinking tea at the end of a fun evening.

Do all men "turn" eventually/ have an ulterior motive for friendships with women or is this something I'm doing?

I stopped him, he stopped immediately and was very apologetic. He also apologised again next day and it will be fine, but it also changes things.

His wife wasn't on this trip because it was for something she doesn't enjoy, but I know and like her a lot, so that leaves me with another issue. Until this point I've always genuinely believed he was one of the good guys 😪

OP posts:
User43219 · 06/12/2023 10:32

Not this again, this is asked almost monthly on here.

Of course men and women can be friends, my best friend is male. We've never done anything, the thought gives me the ick. He doesn't harbour feelings for me, he sees me as a sister and he's like a brother to me. We've known each other for 25 years.

But you'll always get people with differreing views on these threads. Some who don't believe it can happen without one of you having hidden feelings.

I'm a tomboy, always have been. I have much more in common with men than I do women. I don't do spa days, shopping etc. I would rather go to a rugby match than spend a day sat in a spa, it would bore me to tears. So I tend to gravitate to people with similar interests which the majority are male.

PaintedEgg · 06/12/2023 10:33

I think it is possible only with very clear boundaries...and I think work friendships are a whole different beast. I genuinely like my colleagues at work - would not hang out with them outside of work simply to keep my private and professional life separate.

As for male friends - my theory is that any friendships that is too close/ to intimate/ leads to people spending more time together than they do with their partners can lead to some sort of romantic feelings developing...or at least for a man to want to have sex with his female friend

Original poster
Wahtnow · 06/12/2023 10:34

User43219 · 06/12/2023 10:32

Not this again, this is asked almost monthly on here.

Of course men and women can be friends, my best friend is male. We've never done anything, the thought gives me the ick. He doesn't harbour feelings for me, he sees me as a sister and he's like a brother to me. We've known each other for 25 years.

But you'll always get people with differreing views on these threads. Some who don't believe it can happen without one of you having hidden feelings.

I'm a tomboy, always have been. I have much more in common with men than I do women. I don't do spa days, shopping etc. I would rather go to a rugby match than spend a day sat in a spa, it would bore me to tears. So I tend to gravitate to people with similar interests which the majority are male.

Well that exactly how I've felt in the past, but it always seems to happen in the end. I didn't have any feelings for or attraction to either of these men, but they didn't feel the same (although I'm not sure it was "feelings" they were feeling).

OP posts:
Original poster
Wahtnow · 06/12/2023 10:36

PaintedEgg · 06/12/2023 10:33

I think it is possible only with very clear boundaries...and I think work friendships are a whole different beast. I genuinely like my colleagues at work - would not hang out with them outside of work simply to keep my private and professional life separate.

As for male friends - my theory is that any friendships that is too close/ to intimate/ leads to people spending more time together than they do with their partners can lead to some sort of romantic feelings developing...or at least for a man to want to have sex with his female friend

Yes and that's definitely a mistake I made with former work colleague, we were working in a high pressure environment and there weren't many people I could turn to for support.

This one hasn't been a particularly close friend, just part of a group.

OP posts:
PaintedEgg · 06/12/2023 10:40

Also - if a man is into casual sex (and I think most single men are...and good proportion of married ones too apparently) then sure he will be up for a shag with his female friend, no strings attached

Finally, I think that some men become close friends with women that they fancy - either consciously or not

Years ago when my long-term relationship ended I've had a whole bunch of old male friends checking up on me, offering support, offering to take me out for a drink etc...like I'm sure they were just very concerned about my wellbeing after not speaking to me on regular basis for years 😂

gannett · 06/12/2023 10:40

You have a data set of two. You can't draw conclusions about "all" or "most" men based on that. (You also have at least one close male friend who hasn't hit on you.)

I've had more than two men make a move on me when I thought we were just friends. Some did it respectfully and backed off when I said no. I don't have an issue with anyone shooting their shot and I'm still friends with a couple of them. The ones who did it disrespectfully, or when they were in a relationship, or were a bit too persistent, or made me feel unsafe - I distanced myself from them completely.

But all the above are a minority. I've had many, many male friends and friendly acquaintances over the years and the majority have not tried to turn it into anything more, regardless of the situation. I've been the last one left after drunken work drinks with a good male colleague, and no one made a move. I've gone out clubbing all night with a male friend and no one made a move. I've been at wasted afterparties with male friends and no one made a move. Last month I went for a fancy tasting menu with a male friend which ended up as very fun late-night drinking - no one made a move.

Blanket statements about these things are not especially clever.

SamW98 · 06/12/2023 10:44

I have loads of make friends both single and attached and although there’s fun flirty banter there’s definitely a line none of us cross.

Maybe because we’re older and mix in a wide circle then we respect each others boundaries as friends and know that crossing that line wouldn’t be worth upsetting the group dynamics.

Original poster
Wahtnow · 06/12/2023 10:47

SamW98 · 06/12/2023 10:44

I have loads of make friends both single and attached and although there’s fun flirty banter there’s definitely a line none of us cross.

Maybe because we’re older and mix in a wide circle then we respect each others boundaries as friends and know that crossing that line wouldn’t be worth upsetting the group dynamics.

We're all in our 50s!

I'm upset for exactly that reason, it changes the group dynamic. I will also see his wife at least twice in the next month. No idea what to do about that.

OP posts:
PaintedEgg · 06/12/2023 10:53

@Wahtnow I would tell her, it will probably implode the group, but I can bet all my savings he has at least tried this on with other friends of his wife

Original poster
Wahtnow · 06/12/2023 10:59

PaintedEgg · 06/12/2023 10:53

@Wahtnow I would tell her, it will probably implode the group, but I can bet all my savings he has at least tried this on with other friends of his wife

I know but nothing actually happened...

OP posts:
Knitgoodwoman · 06/12/2023 11:00

I was in the armed forces and if I didn’t have male friends I didn’t have friends!

I’d say over the years I’ve had/have 10 male friends and one of them tried it on, one other told me he had feelings. But 80% didn’t.

I would consider if you’re sending out signals and indeed the sort of company you keep. If every male friend you ever have hits on you.

My male friends I have now are genuinely like brothers.

Vivi0 · 06/12/2023 11:03

I so want to believe it's possible, but my experience is that men don't really want it.

This is my experience.

I always see people on MN saying that of course men and women can be friends, but I have never had a male friend not try and make a move on me, eventually. It’s fucking grim.

KitchenAngst · 06/12/2023 11:13

I agree with @gannett -- your data set is far too small to generalise from.

Also agree with her post in that I've certainly had (a tiny of minority of) male friends make a pass, or indicate that they would like to, but when I said no, they backed off and the friendship reverted to what it was before. It wasn't something I viewed as catastrophic, any more than an out of character clumsiness/ misunderstanding etc from a female friend necessarily made me end the friendship.

SamW98 · 06/12/2023 11:25

KitchenAngst · 06/12/2023 11:13

I agree with @gannett -- your data set is far too small to generalise from.

Also agree with her post in that I've certainly had (a tiny of minority of) male friends make a pass, or indicate that they would like to, but when I said no, they backed off and the friendship reverted to what it was before. It wasn't something I viewed as catastrophic, any more than an out of character clumsiness/ misunderstanding etc from a female friend necessarily made me end the friendship.

Ditto. Of course I’ve had male friends make a clumsy usually drunken pass or insinuated they would be interested in taking things further but ive always brushed it off, changed the subject and it’s been forgotten about.

In fact my closest male friend I met at a soul weekend and he definitely was chatting me up though we were both in relationships at the time. There’s always been a chemistry there but we’ve become such close friends that we wouldn’t risk that for a quick fumble.

Burntouted · 06/12/2023 11:25

"I so want to believe it's possible, but my experience is that men don't really want it."

Men and women are capable of being strictly platonic friends. Men and women can strictly be platonic friends.

People who think in opposition to this, are basing this on their own or someone else's personal experiences. Many of them have never witnessed or experienced healthy friendships between men and women. Many grew up hearing this and believe it.

A lot of people grew up in toxicity and dysfunction, witnessing adults claiming platonic friendships, as a cover-up for inappropriate behavior...and have normalized this mindset within themselves.

You know there's billions of people in the world...and surely you can logically come to the conclusion that not everyone is shagging every person they come in contact with, nor are they sexually attracted to everyone.

People in this world of the opposite sex often merge and coexist together to run the world..get jobs and other stuff done.

The few individuals that you speak of (perhaps including yourself) have no self control and don't know how to have healthy relationships.

Also, it takes two to cross those boundaries of friendship.

Cringe when I hear this on going non sense

Oliveandrose · 06/12/2023 11:35

Vivi0 · 06/12/2023 11:03

I so want to believe it's possible, but my experience is that men don't really want it.

This is my experience.

I always see people on MN saying that of course men and women can be friends, but I have never had a male friend not try and make a move on me, eventually. It’s fucking grim.

Ditto

TedMullins · 06/12/2023 11:57

I guess if that’s been your experience then you will be biased against the idea of men and women being friends but as gannett said that’s not a representative dataset.

my experience has been the opposite - I’ve had lots of male friends and I really have to rack my brains to think of times they’ve tried it on. I can think of two occasions and both happened at uni, they weren’t even really my friends, just boyfriends of girls in the extended group, and they made a pass when very drunk. One time it was me who made a pass at a friend (both single though), I didn’t actually have feelings for him, I was just drunk and it seemed like a good idea. Again, early 20s at peak chaos age.

Men I’ve actually been close to and had genuine friendships with have not done this. They’ve been no different to my female friends. I also think a lot of people think emotional intimacy is inherently romantic but I disagree with this, I want close and emotionally intimate friendships because what are friends for if not to be able to share your deep thoughts/worries/feelings (as well as have a laugh of course). Doesn’t mean I want to shag them.

PaintedEgg · 06/12/2023 12:33

some posters claiming that close friendships are possible also admit that their close friends at some point have made a pass on them...

that's the point - yes, having boundaries prevents awkward situations, but it still kind of sucks that it is a fair assumption that a lot of your male friends "would if they could"

User43219 · 06/12/2023 12:42

I feel almost offended that none of my male friends have tried it on with me. Obviously I must have hit every branch of the ugly tree on the way down and the rest of MN are irresistible to their male friends.

Or in reality our friendships are built on mutual trust, respect and interests. Just like my female friendships.

gannett · 06/12/2023 12:53

PaintedEgg · 06/12/2023 12:33

some posters claiming that close friendships are possible also admit that their close friends at some point have made a pass on them...

that's the point - yes, having boundaries prevents awkward situations, but it still kind of sucks that it is a fair assumption that a lot of your male friends "would if they could"

When the majority of my opposite-sex friendships have not led to any passes being made, why would I keep the minority situation in mind above that?

I also don't take offence at anyone being attracted to me. It's how they go about it that matters. I've never had an unpleasant experience along those lines with anyone I consider a good friend.

GreyCarpet · 06/12/2023 13:14

I'm kind of with you, OP.

The first time it happened, I was 17. I didn't fancy him and it hadn't occurred to me he might feel otherwise. But then I started going out with someone. He phoned me up to tell le I'd hurt him and we didn't really speak again.

It didn't happen when I was in a relationship between 26 and 37 but, given my experiences since, I think this was a matter of respect that I 'belonged' to another man.

Between then and now (I'm 48), it's happened a great many times. Married, single, colleagues, friends' husbands, dad's of my children's friends, existing friends of mine, men I've met through hobbies... it seems to make no difference to them.

It has really put me off having male friends tbh. I'm not suggesting it's all of them but a great many of them. I'll still be friends with men but I won't socialise on my own with male friends anymore.

I think the best one was my then boyfriend's best mate telling me he was in love with me. The best part was, my boyfriend trusted him completely - they'd known each other for 50 years! He was worried that I'd got a crush on his friend and warned him of this. Having no idea that it was actually his friend he needed to worry about!

Original poster
Wahtnow · 06/12/2023 13:19

GreyCarpet · 06/12/2023 13:14

I'm kind of with you, OP.

The first time it happened, I was 17. I didn't fancy him and it hadn't occurred to me he might feel otherwise. But then I started going out with someone. He phoned me up to tell le I'd hurt him and we didn't really speak again.

It didn't happen when I was in a relationship between 26 and 37 but, given my experiences since, I think this was a matter of respect that I 'belonged' to another man.

Between then and now (I'm 48), it's happened a great many times. Married, single, colleagues, friends' husbands, dad's of my children's friends, existing friends of mine, men I've met through hobbies... it seems to make no difference to them.

It has really put me off having male friends tbh. I'm not suggesting it's all of them but a great many of them. I'll still be friends with men but I won't socialise on my own with male friends anymore.

I think the best one was my then boyfriend's best mate telling me he was in love with me. The best part was, my boyfriend trusted him completely - they'd known each other for 50 years! He was worried that I'd got a crush on his friend and warned him of this. Having no idea that it was actually his friend he needed to worry about!

Yes, interesting. I do think men have more respect for the fact that you "belong" to another man/the fallout of hitting on another man's woman, than they do respect for their own relationships. I've know this man about a decade and for more than half of that I was married. He never tried anything then.

I've always liked him and thought he was a decent bloke, so it's disappointing and whilst nothing happened, he's been very apologetic, I don't suppose he'll try again, it's not a good feeling to know he would if he could or consider what might have happened if I'd been feeling sad or lonely or a bit more drunk etc

OP posts:
SamW98 · 06/12/2023 13:28

PaintedEgg · 06/12/2023 12:33

some posters claiming that close friendships are possible also admit that their close friends at some point have made a pass on them...

that's the point - yes, having boundaries prevents awkward situations, but it still kind of sucks that it is a fair assumption that a lot of your male friends "would if they could"

In my case it was as only ever at start before a real friendship developed. Once we were firmly in friend zone the dynamic was totally different.

And it’s only ever been single men. I’ve never been hit on by married friends, work colleagues etc. I’m pretty forthright with my views on cheating though so I don’t think anyone would dare even if they wanted to.

ElAmerico · 06/12/2023 13:51

Well, I can only speak from my own personal experience and observation and my conclusion is if one of you is sexually attracted to the sex of other person then there is no truly platonic friendship even if tgey aren't your type, eventually one or both try it on or develop a crush. I have lived in several vastly different countries and cultures, met people from different backgrounds. I just wouldn't be friends with men as a woman and wouldn't like my DH to be friends with women either.

Watchkeys · 06/12/2023 14:25

I so want to believe it's possible, but my experience is that men don't really want it

Your experience isn't universal. Many mixed sex friendships are platonic.