This whole male/female platonic friendship thing

[Wahtnow]

I so want to believe it's possible, but my experience is that men don't really want it.

Years ago I worked in a male dominated industry, I avoided getting close to most of the men because it was blatantly obviously none of them were interested in knowing me as a friend, or even a friendly colleague tbh. There was one man who seemed "safe" a dedicated family man, absolutely committed to his wife, we became good friends through a shared interest and for years it was all good, until it wasn't, and he kissed me at the end of a work function, when I thought he was being a genuinely decent bloke seeing me back to my hotel.

And now it's happened again. I have a mixed group of friends, some married, some single. Based on my previous experience, I have been so careful not to become especially close to the married men or to spend time alone with them, we get along absolutely fine in the group, but my close friends within it are the women and a couple of single men.

We've just been away to an event for a few days, tbf lots of drinking involved and varying stamina levels. Of 12 of us, 6 had left the bar fairly early and a couple of hours later married man said he was going, me and one other said we'd walk back with him. The other (single man) got distracted by another bar on the way back leaving me to walk with married man. All good, I feel completely safe with him and there's never been any reason for anyone to feel concerned about it.

We staggered home (large air BnB) made a cup of tea, sat on the sofa, half the party already in bed in rooms very close and the rest expected back at some point. And then he makes his move. I did not see that coming at all, up until that point it felt exactly like if I'd been with a female friend drinking tea at the end of a fun evening.

Do all men "turn" eventually/ have an ulterior motive for friendships with women or is this something I'm doing?

I stopped him, he stopped immediately and was very apologetic. He also apologised again next day and it will be fine, but it also changes things.

His wife wasn't on this trip because it was for something she doesn't enjoy, but I know and like her a lot, so that leaves me with another issue. Until this point I've always genuinely believed he was one of the good guys 😪

How do you know your female friends aren’t gay or bisexual or bicurious but either have never had the opportunity to make a move, or decided against it? You don’t. But most people don’t go about their lives tying themselves up in nihilistic knots about what the people they spend time with might have had invisible thoughts about. They a) accept people at face value and b) acknowledge that it doesn’t actually really matter either which way because thoughts alone don’t affect anyone but the thinker.

Why would it matter? I have no idea if anyone I’m friends with has a hidden crush on me or not and when if they do, if they don’t act on it then it wouldn’t affect our friendship so it’s not important.

If someone has a crush as invariably it happens then its not platonic which is the whole premise of the op. Its not can your friendship survive after making a pass or despite a crusg its about whether its platonic.
If someone has a crush there is an ulterior motive of a romantic and or sexual nature therefore not a platonic friendship. You can say you dont care if the lines are blurred but you cant say that it would be a platonic friendship.

In practice it might not matter for some.

but it may matter if you are trying to answer whether platonic relationships are possible without hidden ulterior motives.

Some could be disappointed to hear that the platonic relation is the result of lack of opportunity.

Sure. But the only way to guarantee that nobody you get in close proximity to or call a friend ever has a sexual thought about or a crush on you is not to have any friends or spend time with anybody at all, of either sex or any sexuality - including family members. None of us knows what anyone we spend time with is thinking, whether they have an ulterior motive for spending time with us, and whether they simply lack opportunity to act on it. But most of us don’t go about our lives that way because to do so is a descent into nihilism.

Totally agree. I’m sure we’ve all had unrequited crushes on people at some point that we don’t act upon and put it to the back of our minds until it fizzles out.

Im quite amazed by some of the attitudes on here that something like having a little crush would stop them wanting to be friends with someone.

Personally. I don’t have the ego to think I’m irresistible to every man who crosses my path and therefore I’ve maintained a very strong mixed sex friendship group for my whole adult life with various people coming and going over the years but the core group remaining strong and completely able not to make inappropriate passes to each other.

My life would be so much poorer with a female only friendship group

Having a crush on one male friend, colleague or acquaintance doesn't mean men and women can't be platonic friends.

But I agree- that particular relationship would not be platonic (and imo should have boundaries in place).

I would be interested to know, (and unfortunately never will) whether responses on this thread are driven, in part, by whether people went to single sex or mixed schools. Those in single sex schools mainly had peers of the same sex. Those in mixed had a greater influence from both sexes.

I have three very close friends, the type you tell when something happens, who are there for you and vice versa. One is male. We've known each other over thirty years. He is like a brother but is actually closer than my brothers. We both have five brothers, he says I'm the sister he never had. The thought of anything more would feel incestuous, so yes it's possible.
DH has become good friends with him too over the years. They go out together without me sometimes. If you have a partner there should be nothing you say or do that you wouldn't want your partner to know.

So here's a story (it's actually true), I went to our Christmas party last night. My male friend took me, drove me home and I stayed at his. I slept in one room, he slept in another. Completely like I would if it was a female friend. He didn't make a move, he didn't try anything. He gave me a hug this morning as I was leaving just like I do with my close female friends.

He isn't a rarity. Or maybe he is and I'm just a lucky woman to have these men in my life.

@StarlightLady I went to an all girls boarding school until I was 16. When I left at 16 to go to college I noticed how I gravitated towards the boys. I had more in common with them, found them easier to talk to and be around.

I guess I just find it uncomfortable that someone may fake close friendship with a sole view to have sex with the apparent friend

Why on earth speaking as a middle aged man wouldn't we?

I've got single female friends, married ones, partnered ones, not millions & had far more when younger, but a few.

50% of the population written off from being my mate because of their sex? heck I'm white but I've had & have still black mates, 4% of the population & Asian mates 9% so stands to reason I'd have mates in the 50%

I don't think the people who have hit on me are faking a friendship though? I don't think they're faking anything. Being attracted to someone doesn't negate the non-sexual aspects of the friendship.

I don't have a problem with anyone being attracted to me, as long as they comport themselves respectfully.

I think it is possible but I think a very small minority of women you meet. Most women fall into the category of I'm neutral about them and a smaller number I dislike. Many work female work colleagues fall into the former - I have a perfectly cordial

There are other women you'd like to see how a date works and a smaller number you'd really like to date.

The smallest category are those who are valued platonic friends - the ones who can tell you you're being an arse without fear or favour. I have four one who I've know for about 40 years, two former work colleagues and one bizarrely I met quite recently on OLD. For context the longstanding one actually rang met to tell me she'd lost her virginity when we were at university. i sill ask her for emotional advice to this day. We've never done so much as held hands

i think this is down to personal attitude and the closeness of the relationship

a guy being attracted to someone in his friend group is probably pretty common, not very serious and nothing to write home about

however, if we are talking about genuine close, intimate friendships then in my eyes they have to be platonic, otherwise it is fake - i would immediately question how genuine is the friendship if my apparent close friend would shag me if given a chance

how genuine is the friendship if my apparent close friend would shag me if given a chance

How genuine is the friendship in a marriage, or other committed relationship? Sexual feelings don't negate friendship. There's nothing fake about having feelings for someone and not disclosing them out of respect for them, or for their situation. You see it on here all the time... 'I fancy a married man, should I tell him?', and the responses are 'Are you mad? It's not all about you, you know! Keep your feelings to yourself, and stay away from him if you don't feel you can!'

and while I absolutely agree that people should keep their crushes to themselves while its not appropriate, I don't think the friendship is genuine if at least one side hopes for something more - i fact, I think it's worse when one side hopes for a relationship as opposed to just finding their friend attractive

my immediate thought is "would you still be my close friend if you didn't hope for more?"

Just to clarify, I'm referring to these close friendships that involve regular contact, not having mates of any gender or legacy friends from uni with whom we catch up every few months

I have a lot of make friends who have never and would never make a move on me!
Im wondering if those who have this problem are particularly gorgeous though.

I guess I just find it uncomfortable that someone may fake close friendship with a sole view to have sex with the apparent friend

Do they need to be mutually exclusive?

I don't think so. But I understand the drive to make it either / or.

It's not about what we believe. We may believe that women have so much to offer other than looks, obviously, but this is about what a lot of men feel like, and accepting that they may actually be different emotionally and sexually to women.

It's not convenient for me to think that. I'd rather that not be the case, but my experience is that I feel I have to keep most men at a certain distance.

Is it either or? Friendship good, friendship and sex even better, but still good without it.

@gannett No - it's not the responsibility, or the sole responsibility at least, of the boundary holder to assert them. It's a group social responsibility, like many others we have in our society. Most people lock their doors, but if you leave them unlocked that doesn't suddenly rid everyone else of their social responsibility not to enter your house without permission. If a woman passes out because she's drunk, that doesn't make it suddenly fine for someone to assault her.

We have, or should have, a social responsibility to anticipate and respect other people's boundaries, or rather, we do in my world. Some people don't want to do that as they don't want to take an ounce of responsibility for anything, unless they absolutely have to, and I choose not to associate with such people as they are generally selfish, mean spirited, and ruthless types.

I don't think most of them fake it @PaintedEgg . Some might, but I think most will start an acquaintance, thinking that woman is quite attractive but assuming that nothing will ever come of it. The over the months or years, they grow closer emotionally to that woman in a way they cannot easily do with male friends, and they start developing deeper feelings. Others will also not really expect anything, but are opportunistic and won't turn down a sexual invitation if they think it's there. Part of the issue is that they misinterpret the signals and think the woman is also interested when she isn't.

I could not deal with someone who views sex as a normal part of friendship personally, no way

Ditto. That’s crossed the line from a friendship for me.
Friends are just that - sexual partners is something different.

That's not friendship though. I don't fancy every man I meet so why would I sleep with my male friends? I don't sleep with my female friends.