DP doesn't want to get married or have children

[BearsBeatsBattlestarGalactica]

So, will try and condense this so it isn't a short story. Me and DP met 2 years ago and ever since then everything has been blissful happiness.

After about 6 months of been together, we discussed marriage and children out of curiosity and agreed we wanted both things. After 1 year, he randomly asked what kind of shape ring I would like if/when he proposed. We've spoken about children's names and he mentioned if we ever had a girl he would like to name it after his grandmother. I'm only mentioning all of this to give context and show that we were on the same page.

Fast forward to last weekend, we hosted a BBQ and had friends and family round - all of whom have young children/babies. Naturally, the topic of children came up and DP was asked when were we having children. He replied 'no I don't want children I'm happy with the way my life is and children will disrupt that'. I questioned it the day after and his response was 'I said that because we have not used contraception for 6 months and nothing has happened so I think I am infertile, it's easier to persuade myself that I don't want them instead of disappointing you incase I can't have them'. I let it go and that was that. I do partly believe that because I've had a couple of false positives (evap lines etc) and he was ecstatic and then heartbroken whenever period came.

Then tonight - we went out for a date night and ended up in the pub drinking too much wine. A couple came in and the woman told us she had just got engaged. I turned to DP and said oh I can't wait for it to be our turn and he replied 'I don't think I ever want to get married after I've seen what my friends have been through'. For context, one of his friends was kicked out of his marital home when his wife left him for another man and he was left with nothing.

So, AIBU for feeling disappointed that his feelings seemed to have changed and he didn't discuss with me? Does it sound like his feelings towards me have changed? We have the most amazing relationship - love his family, we go on holiday a lot and love travelling, share similar hobbies and have a really good routine living together but none of that is enough if it isn't leading to marriage and children.

Do not just let it carry on.
You are unsure about his motives as someone else said that he’s either lying to you or lying to his friends and family - so comfortable with not being honest.

First mistake was moving into his. He should have have the upheaval.
Second is trying for children without being married (as that’s important to you).

Tell him you’ve digested his comments and you’d like to move out now. And do it.
He doesn’t get the cosy relationship unless he’s committed.

For context my friend wanted children and marriage and her partner were very similar although met in her early 30’s. They get on well and have shared hobbies and interests apart too. In the end after 10 years he persuaded her that their life together was perfect as it was and bought a house together . She was fed up of years of dating. They are still together unmarried, no kids and she’s 42 he’s 51. She’s given up everything, he’s risked nothing. Don’t be her.

Time to split up if he's not on the same page. And the fact he couldn't be honest about the change of heart to you, when he knew your thoughts on the matter.

My initial thoughts aren’t that he’s just been telling you what you want to hear, but rather than he’s seen his friends marriage end and he’s seen how difficult it can be to get pregnant, and he can’t deal with these things. As in, he’s got the emotional maturity of a shrew, and has decided to act like a total arse instead of processing some of this.

while i sympathise, OP, i do think it's possible for people to gradually change their minds.
Not the same situation but i was clear from before marriage that there will be no babies in my life. My DH accepted that and we almost never discussed it, although i knew that he would quite like kids.

Which is why, when i changed my mind 15 years into marriage (we married very young) i waited nearly a year before i told him, just so i was clear in my head. Of course your DP may have been stringing you along in terms of children/marriage but it is entirely possible that he really does think he's infertile, and maybe in his mind if you're not married when you leave him for a man with whom you can have children, he won't lose out (like his friend)

It really is worth a few sessions of talking about this, and evaluating if you are both still aligned in your hopes for the future.

He's literally said he'd be over the moon about having kids, and he's just sad/embarrassed about it not happening.

And over half the kids born in the UK are born to UNmarried couples.

Perhaps you should both do fertility tests if you're keen?

Well you need to stop TTC, unless you’re happy to potentially be a single parent with the burden of all the costs. Given what you’ve said about the ring, I would give myself an internal deadline of 6 months or so then I would have another conversation to make sure you’re on the same page.

Stop sleeping with him; have a proper sober conversation about what you both want- it’s sounds like he’s trying to wriggle out of what you’ve said before but if you want marriage and kids and he doesn’t then that’s the end of it

You need to sit down and have it out with him, it might be a defence mechanism, or he may have told you about children in front of everyone so he does't have to have a difficult conversation with you in private and this makes sure you don't question it. Personally I'd stop having unprotected sex until you know exactly his position on this. Getting pregnant with a man who doesn't want kids or to marry will make your life very difficult.

The same goes for marriage, you could end up waiting years for a proposal on the basis you 'think' he's going to propose. How many threads have we seen on mn from women who have waited years and then been told its not going to happen. Some men have gone so far as buying the ring.

also agree with PP that it is shit of family and friends to ask you about your plans for chlidren in public. I remember being so sick of it i faked bursting into tears and ran out of the room with my SILs because it was relentless. Only that made them stop.

Waiting for a proposal is - meh. Just ask him, tell him you want to firm up plans and that you're going back on contraception until you're married.

You need to have a frank discussion with him about what's going on.

It doesn't matter what he might be doing behind the scenes. This is your future as much as his, you don't need to sit around stressing and worrying about giving him the benefit of the doubt while he gets to do whatever he likes without care for your feelings.

He's possibly explained why he said he doesn't want kids. It's a weird reason but one that could plausibly be true. There's no reason why he had to say he didn't want marriage.

Just say "You've said now that you don't want marriage. Is that true? Because I still do and I need to know if that will be happening for us, or if I need to think about leaving". And don't let him walk away from the conversation or fob you off. Be explicit and insist he is explicit too.

He can't be allowed to be spouting off anti-marriage sentiments without consequence.

If you aim is to get married and have children, leave your current partner and find a man who wants to get married and become a father, and who doesn’t mess with your head.

why would he assume that HE is infertile . . . unless he knows?

How many times would you need to measure a ring?
I have a feeling once would be enough. He is just saying what you want to hear.

This.
From your updates it does sound as though he could be using it as a coping mechanism with the pregnancy and throwing you “off the scent” with the engagement. But that is not okay. He should be able to talk to you about these things, and if he doesn’t and lies about things instead that’s a big red flag.

Also completely not okay to say these things to friends and family before discussing them with you. another big red flag and controlling behaviour. There are other things he could say if he was worried about infertility - “we’re not ready yet but maybe one day”.

You need a really frank conversation with him about these things, and be prepared to walk away if he’s not on the same page as you/messes you around/is ambiguous with his responses.

What's the rush? Seems like you are diving in head first, trying for a baby 18 months into dating (that's what I'd describe it as, you weren't even living together when you ditched contraception!). Why can't you take it slow, have a few years of being a couple, if you only moved in together in May I'd say you were very much in the honeymoon stages of a relationship, you don't truly know someone until you've lived with them (and I'm not counting the 1st 6months when the novelty is still there!).

I'd been with my husband for 10 years before we bought a house together, got married and then had children, granted we met at uni when we were young, but we had a lot of living to do before we dove in and commited to marriage and a family. It was very important to spend those years together as a couple as once we had children it was tough, you aren't the priority anymore. I couldn't imagine having a baby with someone I'd met 18months before. You need to enjoy being a couple before you start trying to have babies and ideally get married first. If you have a baby first your exotic honeymoon is out the window! Yes you need to make sure you are on the same page before you invest time in a relationship once you reach a certain age, but I wouldn't be trying to bring a baby into this relationship right now, maybe 2/3 years time when you've had your fun and after you've got married, you're 27 not 37.

If you have a baby with him , he will leave . I would end this relationship .

I've been that person to tell everyone I wasn't sure if I wanted kids to protect myself as I thought we would struggle. I totally understand his logic there!! It is horrible to have people look pitifully at you in a "aww they really wanted kids" way!

You need to sit down and talk to him! Simple as! If his feelings about marriage has changed and yours hasn't, it won't work out!

I don’t understand why you are having unprotected sex when you aren’t married. Whose idea was that?

A friend of mine went through four years of this shit before finding out her partner had had a vasectomy.

Dump him and find someone who’s got their act together.

I’m going to go against the grain here and take what he’s saying at face value. You’ve been trying for a child for 6 months and he thinks he might be infertile. He’s obviously feeling very down I would think. Perhaps he thinks you’ll be having second thoughts about marrying someone who can’t give you children given how important that is to you. So I can see that he may feel now is not the time to propose. What he says to other people in public may not be his real feelings as I wonder whether the honest answer from him would be ‘ I want children but don’t think I will be able to have them. Having children is important to my DP so I don’t think she will want to marry me’. I can see why he would just make up an excuse on the spur of the moment. Would you marry him if you knew you couldn’t have kids?

A proposal doesn't mean anything. Lots of men faff about, finally propose and then faff about forever afterwards. There are so many women on here who have been engaged forever, have multiple children and have finally realised that there is never going to be a wedding. My first husband did propose. We did get married. We had two children. Turned out he actually didn't want any of those things really and he left with someone far younger. We weren't brilliant at communicating ( no shit Sherlock) We should have had proper discussions about all of it. I knew I wanted marriage and children and he thought he should want that so he drifted along. Once we had our second child it all got too much for him and he finally told the truth ( after accidentally putting his cock repeatedly into someone else sadly) . The romantic ,Prince Charming, fairytale stuff is all very fabulous for your Insta page but what matters a billion times more is the ability to sit down and talk about things that will affect you for the rest of your life. If you can't talk about getting married and having children how are you going to sort out money when you take maternity leave. How are you going to sort out the boring, endless pick ups and drop offs and Saturday ballet/ swimming/ football, picking up and looking after a sick child / annual leave. You are going to be back on here in a couple of years saying that you don't have access to family money, you pay for everything to do with the children, he's taken up one of the inevitable MN man hobbies and is out every evening and all weekend. Please sit down and communicate properly about what future you want. If it isn't with him then splitting will be hard. Staying together and drifting will be far worse.

This ^ 100%
I can’t stress enough how important it to have marriage before kids.
you’ve said that your life together is perfect atm. Well, it’s only for him not for you as you haven’t got what you wanted : the stability of marriage for you and your future kids.

This.

He’s also blindsiding you with this new information in front of friends so you can’t react. It’s deeply manipulative and shows a complete lack of respect for you.

Completely agree @pizzaHeart - you need to move on Op otherwise you'll still be in this position when you're 35/40 plus!

Another bery good point @brightdayloomingdark - very manipulative with the timing! Id not thought of that!

No-one on here knows what your DP really thinks so instead of reading lots of silly guesses from Mumsnet posters, just ask him directly. If you want marriage and kids, you need to have a direct conversation with your DP and express your wishes very clearly.

From a different perspective, I was a bit like your DP.

I was always very openly anti marriage (driving with DP past a church with a wedding going on and saying ‘don’t do it’ out loud inside the car) and despite plenty of unprotected sex with exes, I never got pregnant, so wrongly assumed I couldn’t get pregnant. DH was already divorced when we met and neither of us spoke about getting married.

However, after 7 yrs living with DP, I did get pregnant out of the blue in my early forties and we got married 12 years after getting together, even though I was still not bothered about getting married. DH had been diagnosed with cancer and wanted us to be married, just in case. We got married in a simple registry office ceremony with a few witnesses and it was very low key. DH has been cancer free for over 5yrs now. Fingers crossed!

I’m still ambivalent about marriage. 🤷🏻‍♀️