Overwhelmed by the mess I’m in and can’t see a way out. Can you see my way out?

[OHVanessaShanessaJenkins]

Married for over 20 years.
2 kids, 19 and 11.
Im the main wage earner, have good savings, great pension due in 2 years.
Husband could not afford the house alone, has no savings and is not great with money.
we own our house, not long left on the mortgage.

Husband does most of the childcare for our youngest. Probably about 85% as I’m away with my job a lot.

Im resentful of his lack of fucks to give about the house. I am continuously cleaning up after him & the kids. Continuously.

I think I want out.
Kids would be 50:50 with each of us.

I would have a good deposit on another property, but couldn’t afford to pay the same amount for this house (the kids home) and support myself in another property.

What about my pension? If I left, would he be entitled to my pension?

Where do you even start to start again?
If you have been where I am and have come out the other end, can you advise?

@Inkpotlover ahhhhh, the old feckless husband argument. You chose badly!! Nice victim blaming there. And yet this happens to so many of us. How people behave after marriage is so different from the courtship days.

Few families can afford a SAHP these days. Personally I just don’t see how whatever domestic contribution is made - while bringing in not one penny of cold, hard cash - entitles you to half of the other person’s earnings. I have always paid my own way and more.

I have been a lone parent for five years and I have done the LOT. There never was a need for a SAHP.

Something I've observed in life is that people find it very difficult to judge 'fairness' when it pertains to them having less than they would like/had before/think they should have.

I see it often in a work context, where a desirable (but limited) resource is distributed randomly, so as not to advantage anyone in getting it (those who 'miss out' still get a perfectly serviceable version of that same resource that will meet their needs - just not exactly the one they wanted). People who didn't get their preference of said resource often bitterly complain that the process is unfair, but it isn't - what they really mean is that they don't like the feelings they're having around not getting it.

OP, I mention this because you're already feeling massive resentment towards your husband and are considering embarking on a divorce that could stir those feelings up tenfold. I'm sure that on paper, you'd agree that it's right and appropriate that when two people have legally chosen to tie their lives together through marriage, it's right that if that marriage ends, each person gets enough resources to begin their solo life (if that's at all possible from what's in the collective pot). But there's agreeing with that intellectually, and then there's living it; and living it when you're already feeling generally impatient and angry is going to involve FEELINGS.

I'm not saying don't get divorced - that's totally up to you! I think you've made a wise choice to begin HRT and I hope it's helping you. What I'd suggest as a next step is some counselling, just for you. Because you've said yourself that this is the first time you've shared any of these feelings, and one if the things you've found a bit tricky in this thread is how people have understood/interpreted those feelings that you're sharing for the first time. I don't believe you want to divorce your husband purely because he doesn't load the dishwasher and I accept what you've said that as things stand, you feel it's over between you, but it's not been easy for you to express the issues here in a way that everyone gets. At some point, if you want to proceed with a divorce, you're going to have to share at least some of the issues with your husband, so time spent exploring what's happening for you, with someone neutral and supportive, could be of real benefit. And you'd then have a resource to help you when the FEELINGS start to get a bit much, as they likely will, because whatever your vision of the future is you may find he doesn't share it or can't get on board with it when his own FEELINGS come into play.

And yes, do get some legal advice. But have someone in your corner for the emotional stuff, too. Best of luck.

OP you don't need to justify wanting a divorce. If you no longer want to be married to him you don't have to be. In a divorce everything gets thrown into the pot. Any pensions yours and his, any savings yours and his including ISA's and stocks and shares. Equity in the house. Then if both of you are capable of work then you would both be expected to work full time. 19 year old would probably choose where they lived but could spend time with each parent if they wanted too and 11 year old 50/50 time spent with each parent. That's what a solicitor will tell you. You also have to declare items of value on a form so cars, jewelry etc. You can agree to trade offs of equal value. Good luck OP. If you're not happy with him no point wasting your life being miserable. Better to lose some of your pension than your mind.

Hang on, you described your ex yourself as 'abusive, a drunk and layabout' – if that's not feckless I don't know what is! It's not victim blaming you in the slightest either, you've misinterpreted what I said. You couldn't help what he was like.

And there are plenty of SAHP out there. MN is full of them.

@Inkpotlover but apparently it was my fault I was shackled to this reckless man and if I had chosen wisely I’d be better off? Isn’t that what you were saying. I never did believe in marrying for money but maybe I didn’t fully realise I would be giving so much away.

Marriage is so much a tradition and still seen as the right way of doing things but I can’t for the life of me see why agreeing to a long-term relationship with someone gives them a cut of your earnings. Doesn’t make sense.

OP, I am so sorry that you have fallen out of love with your husband, it happens, it is not your fault. I can see that you currently feel trapped, but really what you need to do is go and get some decent legal advice about the way forward for you and your children. Your husband is a grown arse man and can make his own plans.

Make the appointment with the solicitor, make sure you have as much detail about your OH's pensions and savings etc, because you are equally entitled to his monies, too.

You are only going to get through this a step at a time, and the first step is an appointment with a decent divorce lawyer.

Agreeing to a long term relationship does not. Marrying does. It's no one else's fault that you did not take your marriage vows about bestowing all your material goods seriously.

OP you matter, what you think and feel matters. Do ignore the MRAs/trolls. Don't respond to them, they are losers.
You don't have to have any BIG reason to end a relationship. People change and their feelings, needs and wants change. You don't want the life you have. Please feel entitled to change it. Wishing you lots of luck.

OP,

Clearly your marriage is over, so good legal advice is key.

Why are you so scared of him?

How does he behave badly?

Is he abusive?

If he is, you need to record his behaviour on your phone.

Film the condition of the house.

If he is claiming to be resident parent and yet does nothing in the house, get proof.

Have you friends and family you can confide in?

Continue to get as organised as quietly as you can.

Perhaps look at some counselling too for yourself.

Nope, never said that either. You are misinterpreting again and projecting your own feelings regarding your marriage, which is fair enough, but no one is victim blaming you.

The point I was trying to make is that the law applies both ways and I don't agree that it's legalised theft. SAHMs who have given up their career to do all the heavy lifting of family life so their DHs can continue theirs deserves financial parity if the marriage ends. If the law was done away to avoid advantaging men like your ex, those women would suffer and many would stay stuck in marriages that were toxic.

"Awfully upset" not sure I have seen that written since I read Enid Blyton 😂

@MysteryBelle interesting that your silly post has been removed though!

Yes this is equality in the modern world - she sounds like she has everything great job good pension caring stay at home husband a son that is looked after by his father. It sounds like how things used to be years ago but in reverse. Men went out to work and women stayed at home with children she is sounding like 1970's husband lol! But she is unhappy !

If you've been together this long, can you not wait until both of your children are adults and then reflect on it?

@Inkpotlover the law does not protect working women who also do most of the heavy lifting at home. It is based on old-fashioned which date back to the days when my grandmother was forced to give up work when she married. In future most wives will be working and the law leaves them vulnerable to financial abuse. I don’t know what to tell my hard-working daughter who quite naturally aspires to marriage and kids and dogs and roses round the door. She is capable of bringing in the money for that but could lose it all if her partner turns out to be anything less than equally hard working.

As the law stands a woman’s lot still depends on who she marries - bearing in mind that frogs can appear to be princes as well as vice versa. Marry Prince Charming and when you’ve had enough you will be set for life anyway. Marry the frog and you will be fleeced and struggling to support your kids while he even tries to dodge child support (happens all the time).

It’s completely against feminism and the idea that a woman can earn her own way in life. It’s also why there are gold-diggers. The law should be changed and I hope someone is able to afford the cash to argue this in court. Because I couldn’t.

I do see where you are coming from. How would you change the law, then?

@HerculesMulligan It's really brilliant that you & your H have come through his depression together & you have managed to save your marriage.

Who knows if OP's H is depressed but I wanted to say that imo it is crucial that any person is able & willing to take responsibility.

My experience has been a 22 yr marriage to a man who has suffered periodic bouts of quite bad depression. Mostly he will not seek help for this but the family suffers (2 x kids with ASD & I am physically disabled). 2 years ago he moved out as 'family life is stressful' (yes!). Last year he stopped work & has now just got a Tier 2 retirement. All I have ever heard is: 'it's not my fault'. I don't mean to go off on a tangent here. It sounds as though OP is beyond fed up of her H's having 'checked out' so has emotionally checked out herself. For this to be fixable, both parties would want to & both be willing to do the work.

I am now divorcing as I can't stand his passive aggression (a separate matter)

I wouldn’t worry about the money side. What will be, will be.

You can always earn more when you are divorced and work longer if need to make up
pension. (To be honest he probably won’t want your pension if he can’t access it yet so may accept less of that for more of the equity in the house which might work better for you and put you in a stronger bargaining position)

The top and bottom of it is that you clearly can’t stand living with him any longer and once you are at that point it’s game over.

just crack on with separating.

@Inkpotlover for a start there is a big difference between a couple where both work or where one stays at home. If both work then the split should be according to the percentage of earnings coming in. So if it’s 60/40 that’s how it should split. Then there is the extra burden that each partner shoulders in communicating with schools, buying uniform, making sure homework is done and projects completed at short notice, making a Book Day Costume, doing washing and cleaning, gardening and home maintenance etc or even paying for childcare. I am talking about those with kids, of course some don’t have them.

In fact reading the posts on here it seems many women returning to work often have to pay all the childcare themselves when that cost should be split. I even subsidised my ex for a year in childcare so he could retrain. Plus living costs - - he was always subsidised on those. An account of all that should be taken into consideration.

At the moment the argument is the courts can’t look into the details of a marriage and yet they do ask for a forensic breakdown of how much is spent on everything including dry cleaning and even the “fishmonger”. So why not a breakdown of at least who did what/paid for major burdens such as childcare?

If one parent truly has to give up work to look after kids because of the other’s working hours or disabilities then that should have a section on the form and be compensated. And was it a unilateral or bilateral agreement??

It’s interesting that these days on divorce both parents are expected to work and yet before divorce apparently one person is too busy to work! That’s a contradiction. The whole thing needs a proper Royal Commission to investigate. I doubt that will ever happen.

I’m not against marriage - my parents’ was happy and long-lasting. But I am against the law as it stands. In my case I earned 70% to his 30% but he walked off with 55%. It was grossly unfair. Still, at least I had a job so have continued to support myself and the kids.

As for the fecklessness, this is like a death by 1,000 cuts. It’s not apparent to start with. Maybe you marry an intelligent professional. But then it creeps in. Mostly as a wife you have to put up with it out of shame, terrified people will find out until this is the daily reality you are living. Then escape is almost impossible because of the financial damage you and your kids will face but in the end it has to be done. The system is financially abusive.

You are joking surely? how old are your kids at the moment. Mine are in their 20's and still dependent due to university, post grad etc. why hold on for years and years and just get more and more resentful and miserable. why condemn a child to be brought up in a miserable household where their only role models are 2 people that hate each other? do you think the kids wouldnt notice?

It also makes no sense when you find yourself in the situation of being in a marriage where one party does everything as basically a lone parent and also the only earner, while the other doesn't work and does very little to help. Financially, household or parenting.

I dunno I used to want marriage and that's why I did get married but situations, people change and now I'm not so sure I would again. I didn't go into it looking at it as a legally binding thing in that sense, it's not really looked that way generally is it.

@JibbaJab correct. I doubt anybody really goes into it looking at it that way.

I hope the OP can find a way out.

@TorringtonDean Although I'm not there yet, I'm still trying to get child access. I'm presuming everything is going to be divvied up. So what, done absolutely nothing at all not contributed for near a decade, basically freeloading and gonna take your slice from a cake I baked. Nice.

To me and most people it's more relationship goal than anything financial or legal. Go into it blind almost.

@OHVanessaShanessaJenkins Although people may be questioning the cleaning. It's extremely exhausting living with someone who won't clean up after themselves or have any sense of what mess is. I had all that, leave stuff in the sink overflowing, on sides and on floor even. Couldn't even use a bin and when did, put rubbish on top of it. There's untidy and there's mess.

That was my impression, too. There are some posters here who always react aggressively and spitefully to any woman who says she is a high earner or the main breadwinner etc and I have come to the conclusion it is due to their own insecurities.

He's not a SAHP. She has done most of the caring for the children and does most of the housework.

What's with all of this projecting?