Manchild sleeping through pick ups

[Turtleyturtles]

My ex who (still lives me) with was fast asleep yesterday when he should have been picking up the kids. This is the 4th time this has happened in the last month. On one occasion the school rang me because our 4yo and 8yo were in reception waiting to be picked up. He was asleep then too. After the first time it happened he promised to set an alarm. Second time he was asleep and forgot to pick them up he blamed me - he sleeps so much and says he is depressed because I ended our relationship. I ended it because he is a manchild who contributes zero financially and doesn't pull his weight with childcare or housework either. He works from home and often ends up napping at about 3pm. He says he can't help it.

We are having couples counselling to help us split amicably and he is moving out within 6 months. But I'm not sure what to do about him sleeping through pick ups. I don't want to take over. His share of the picks up is his responsibility. Nor do I want to add 'wake up dad' to my list of jobs! If he is late to pick them up for after school club, we get charged another hour, which I ask him to pay. But beyond that, any ideas?

the counsellor has also seen OP alone - it's not uncommon for couples' counsellors to do this

I'd be asking him to get to the doctors because falling asleep on a regular basis mid-afternoon isn't normal.

Not ideal though is it with a manipulative partner

Not OP's job, as he is not her partner anymore.

There are so many similarities with my ex. He also napped and didn’t understand the fuss when it impacted the family. Not to the extent of forgetting the kids, but when we lived together he’d doze off rather than watch them whilst I was cooking or doing chores. Since moving out he’s missed video calls with his kids because he was asleep. I once went to drop them off at his (all arranged not a surprise at 10am) and he was still fast asleep. I was knocking like a loon on the door, calling, almost left when he slunk to the door. No apology. I told him of it happened again I’d take them home and that would be it for that visit.

My ex was also bordering on abusive, but (and I know others will disagree) he genuinely didn’t seem to understand how that was the case. I suspect he’s autistic, which is certainly not an excuse for awful behaviour but there is a difference between intent and genuine lack of understanding mixed in with emotional dysfunction/delay. He would want to understand why I was angry about something then immediately shout over me and shut me down as he couldn’t deal with criticism. He’s kick objects in a temper then be absolutely incensed by the idea it was abusive behaviour as ‘that’s what he’d done as a teen to release stress’. He’d also bang his fist against a wall in a oh-so-dramatic tv show manner, because emulating seen (melodramatic) behaviour is how he felt most comfortable behaving. It was both worrying but also bizarre, like watching a bad actor in a play. I told him in no uncertain terms his behaviour was unacceptable, and he did curb it but I eventually realised that he wasn’t every going to understand how to be an adult on an emotional level (and let’s not get started on the deliberate incompetence).

I’ve always said the key difference between men and women becomes glaringly obvious when a split happens. Women often do not have a choice but to rearrange their lives at a whim when things go bad. When I split from my partner I had found and fully furnished a rental within 4 months. Every man I know who’s split from their wife/longterm girlfriend has ended up moving back in with a parent and never left (unless found a new victim to emotionally drain).

Good luck!!

Well, I agree, but as noted above, the counsellor is seeking advice about this from her panel.

And it sounds like the counsellor is calling out the controlling behaviour

I would be deducting the cost of after school club from the sum you owe him for the 10% of the house as well.

OP says she makes STBXP pay that anyway.

This reply was tongue-in-cheek.

have never heard of people just randomly falling asleep during the day unless they have a medical issue.

Did he manage to get the kids today OP?

It's my turn today so all was well. No alarms necessary 😀.

Thanks, yes, I will do this, good advice.

Yes, I will because he already thinks he is father of the year. He really does.

I suspect it's because his emotional abuse isn't intentional as such and isn't that bad. And @Gerrataere you said similar.

I think these statements are very telling. People tend to think that abusers must be evil people and if they're not, if they're just good people who are flawed, then it's not abuse or shouldn't be treated as abuse.

But it still is. The abuser might not be a bad person. But he (or she) are behaving in abusive ways and they probably don't realise or care because they genuinely think that they are right. It's not a case of them choosing to abuse you. It's a form of disordered thinking.

Which is why addressing it with them is so hard. In fact, in many cases, when it starts becoming a bone of contention, they think THEY are the ones who are being abused or treated unkindly.

A good analogy might be like someone who is misogynist. They don't accept that they are misogynist. They just see the world in their own way and think the rest of us are ridiculous/silly/overreacting/woke etc. very few misogynists would put their hands up and say, "yes, I'm a misogynist. I think women are lesser".

Oh I do not disagree with you. No intending to be abusive or simply not understanding why their actions are abusive doesn’t mean the actions are excused. My ex isn’t intentionally abusive but he was not a healthy person for me to be around and it was making me a shitty person because I became reactive. Then we slip into a whole dependency/enabling situation which is a whole other level of messed up, especially adding in the deliberate incompetence.

I’m now watching my ex become self destructive, he couldn’t stand being told what to do ‘like a child’ but without my ‘nagging’ everything is falling apart. But with children it’s a catch 22 situation - don’t get involved and eventually dad will not be able to sustain himself, get involved and you’re in for the same old barrage of crap again.

OP, don’t get too caught up in what legally has to happen ie yes, here’s a “correct” way to do things but that only applies after practical things haven’t worked. Yes, he’s got a legal right to live in the house and he has a legal right to access the property, but police wouldn’t necessarily be interested if you changed the locks as it would be a civil matter. He’d then have to take you to court to get an occupation order which would take some time and a LOT of effort, particularly for someone who can’t be bothered to collect children from school.

If you can stand to live with him for the next 8 weeks then fine, but I’d be changing the locks at 6 months & 1 day. He’s had plenty of time to sort himself out and you can pay him what he’s legally entitled to from savings. If he insisted on selling the house then he’d just end up with the cash equivalent of the 10%. He can have that without making his children leave their home.

There are lots of legal rights/remedies that just aren’t practicable to enforce. If your seller takes all the light fittings that were included in the sale you have a legal remedy to compensation etc. Practically, how many of us would pursue the remedy? It’s really good that your being so correct about the legal position, but you may find he will leave and take his 10% without you having to do mediation, take him to court or manage his distress at being so useless you ended the relationship. You don’t need to manage his incompetence. Tell his mum that you’ve broken up, that he’s got 8 weeks to move out, that he’s entitled to 10% you can pay out of savings but that he might want to make you sell her grandchildren’s house and see what she has to say. If my future DIL told me that I’d go round with boxes to help pack up his shit before helping her change the locks!

I am a SAHP and have a daily alarm for 3.10pm so I stop what I’m doing in time to pick up the DC from school. It’s not bloody rocket science!!

Thank you, I agree and understand the analogy. Yes, I think 'behaving in abusive ways' is how I should see it from now on, and disordered thinking. This helps because the abuse isn't the only thing about him, in other ways and with other people he can be lots of different things - kind, thoughtful etc. He definitely doesn't realise or care about the abusive behaviour towards me. He probably does think it is me who is abusive and unkind for having boundaries now and for 'nagging' or controlling him to bet him to do stuff. The fact that the stuff I am asking him to do is reasonable, to look after his own children, share the housework and contribute half financially, doesn't matter. He said recently with a big sigh that now he has reached middle aged he is fully realised. So no hope of change at all!

This thread and the couples counsellor has helped me to see that it is abusive behaviour, so thank you.

@Turtleyturtles do you ever see that he starts an argument about doing anything simply because you haven’t asked him in the ‘correct way’?

I used to say ‘x, y and z’ chores need doing, and so often the reply would be that I hadn’t stated clearly that I mean 1. Wanted him to do any of it specifically and 2. I hadn’t said it in a a ‘nice way’. Which of course means I hadn’t said ‘oh pretty please, lord and master of our domain, if it doesn’t bother you so greatly, could you please clean the bathroom, especially the toilet that you’ve just left your beautiful and perfect excrement? I do realise this is beneath you and your holier existence but I promise I will not ask for your efforts for the foreseeable if you kindly bequeath me this honour…’.

This usually followed by an argument that these things didn’t need doing and I was being extremely uptight. I always suspected that if I moved out he’d revert to a messy teenage but on a whole house scale rather than just a smelly bedroom. I was right unfortunately.

I used to say ‘x, y and z’ chores need doing, and so often the reply would be that I hadn’t stated clearly that I mean 1. Wanted him to do any of it specifically and 2. I hadn’t said it in a a ‘nice way’.

Ex BIL complained often, in a very put upon way, to anyone who would listen, that if SIL would just tell him what it was that needed doing, he would do it. Accompanied by lots of big sighs and a sort of "well, she's a big meanie and this is what I have to put up with" kind of attitude.

It was always amusing when he tried saying it to me and I would reply, "surely you can tell when washing needs doing?". hahaha.

Ooh, food for thought, thank you. The locks idea is interesting. I can stand to live with him, mainly because we hardly see each other and have our own lives.

What you say about the legal rights and remedies and what is enforceable is really interesting too. I'm now thinking similar. For example, if he claims he should be entitled to more than 10% of the house since we both signed the Deed of Variation. I will ask him to prove it. I'm not doing the work! He won't be able to prove it (because has contributed zero to pay off the mortgage, a very low amount towards the initial deposit and very little towards home improvements) and he won't make the effort to even try, so that's a non starter. The more I can get him to do the better, because I did all the work in the relationship and now I am doing all the work to split up!

I agree, not bloody rocket science!

Hahaha!! Oh yes, he does that, same. We had the living room painted for the first time in 15 years recently and that was apparently excessive. How frivalous of me.

There is of course no 'correct' way to ask is there? It's all about them putting the blame and responsbility back onto you. It's so easy to fall for though!

Well done for moving out!

My partner of 5 years has said we should go our separate ways, that we want different things in life and that I don’t sexually please him and he wants to experience large boobs. He thinks our relationship has turned toxic as he wants me to change my body for him.
Am I wrong for still holding on hope and wanting this relationship or is there no hope?

See this is a great example of when I became ‘reactive’. I got to the point where I was sick of enabling the chosen incompetence and asked him to simply look around at the general chores that needed doing. That I was sick of essentially programming a robot to follow commands.

I was so sick of the entire mental load, of having to use exact detail of anything I saw needed doing, only to end up doing or sorting it myself eventually anyway. It was never done on the first time of asking and if I asked again I’d get ‘I said I was going to do it!!’. Followed by being accused of being a ‘nag’ of course. When I started breaking down and saying the mental load of essential thinking on his behalf was getting to me, he mocked me and rolled his eyes.