Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Manchild sleeping through pick ups

211 replies

Turtleyturtles · 27/06/2023 11:44

My ex who (still lives me) with was fast asleep yesterday when he should have been picking up the kids. This is the 4th time this has happened in the last month. On one occasion the school rang me because our 4yo and 8yo were in reception waiting to be picked up. He was asleep then too. After the first time it happened he promised to set an alarm. Second time he was asleep and forgot to pick them up he blamed me - he sleeps so much and says he is depressed because I ended our relationship. I ended it because he is a manchild who contributes zero financially and doesn't pull his weight with childcare or housework either. He works from home and often ends up napping at about 3pm. He says he can't help it.

We are having couples counselling to help us split amicably and he is moving out within 6 months. But I'm not sure what to do about him sleeping through pick ups. I don't want to take over. His share of the picks up is his responsibility. Nor do I want to add 'wake up dad' to my list of jobs! If he is late to pick them up for after school club, we get charged another hour, which I ask him to pay. But beyond that, any ideas?

OP posts:
Original poster
Turtleyturtles · 28/06/2023 11:11

Begonne · 28/06/2023 10:18

Your counsellor sounds shit. She’s caught up in the narcissist web because she feels like she’s getting through to him. Great ego boost but a professional should be on guard for that. She’s going to fix him in four months? Hah!

Can he not move in with his dm while he looks for a place to live. That would sort out the problem with her not knowing. If it’s absolutely necessary that a woman take on the load of waking a man to collect his own dc, I don’t see what it should be you… or the school teachers….or his elderly dm … or his eventual new girlfriend but the only one you have control over is you.

He will be a Victim regardless. He will have his poor me narrative. Your reputation is not salvageable so let it go. Because your sanity still is.

It’s time to take your life back and the thing that’s standing in the way of doing that is this useless lump of a man.

(maybe the stupid counsellor would like to take over the nap waking duties)

I think she is getting through to him and seeing progress and you're right, this is probably an ego boost. But the six month thing wasn't her idea, it came from me and my ex. He wanted much longer and was astonished, acting bemused and overwhelmed that I wanted him to move out any sooner. The counsellor has said most women wouldn't put up with it and that most women would be straight to court to get him out. She says, after seeing us both for 10 or so sessions, that he is controlling and emotionally abusive and that I am a victim. I had no idea about this, so I think she's good and I'm glad we went because no one else has ever told me this. It really has opened my eyes. Other people just think he's a bit useless and that I am well organised and that 'opposites attract' etc. Regardless, I'm seeing a solicitor and will indeed stop faffing about!

OP posts:
Original poster
Turtleyturtles · 28/06/2023 11:18

SheilaFentiman · 28/06/2023 11:08

Yay! But also.... why is he going with you?

Do your kids know yet that you are about to split?

Ahh well because I don't drive, they live a long distance away and it's a nightmare with 4yo on the train. I know, I know, excuses.

Kids know we have split yes. 8yo said she already knew and it is obvious because we don't sleep in the same bed or hold hands. She's more interested in her own friends and other stuff and isn't the least bit interested (on the surface obviously and for now while nothing major has changed materially). The counsellor said I should drip feed info to her, and that I needed to tell her and be honest asap to maintain the trust between me and her. She said to me and my ex in one of our sessions that he shouldn't tell her because he would invite her sympathy and say "daddy doesn't want this you, daddy is very sad" etc. So I did it on my own and it went well. 4yo is too little to really understand at the moment.

OP posts:
SheilaFentiman · 28/06/2023 11:18

Good, well done!

(and apologies, you said in the OP that your kids were 4 and 8)

titchy · 28/06/2023 11:25

I think your counsellor sounds awful sorry. Once she'd ascertained he was abusive she should have stopped the joint counselling immediately. It is NEVER recommended where there is abuse or control from one party.

And drip feeding your children just rocks their foundations with uncertainty - again no counsellor with a modicum of experience with children would suggest that - it's really damaging to them.

SheilaFentiman · 28/06/2023 12:27

I think that was a typo and the counsellor said op shouldn’t drip feed info.

Original poster
Turtleyturtles · 28/06/2023 12:42

SheilaFentiman · 28/06/2023 12:27

I think that was a typo and the counsellor said op shouldn’t drip feed info.

Oh no, you have me worried now. She did advise drip feeding, rather than a big serious, sit down announcement with grave faces. I'm doing it my way after reading advice online, in books and taking into account what the counsellor said and the ages of my children and their personalities. I don't want them left with uncertaintly, so I haven't said when ex is moving out. I wanted 8yo to know in case anyone else who knows mentions it to her. I wouldn't want that because I think it would break trust between us and cause her to worry and fill in the gaps with incorrect information.

OP posts:
SheilaFentiman · 28/06/2023 12:58

I don’t understand how drip feeding is compatible with tell her asap?

Original poster
Turtleyturtles · 28/06/2023 13:03

I think she meant start drip feeding asap. Maybe drip feeding isnt the best phrase. What she suggested was to not make it grave and scary, but rather be open, honest and talk about how everyone will be happier. And keep it simple, i.e. "I love you very much, Daddy loves you very much. Me and daddy aren't in love anymore." So that kind of thing first, rather than start talking about daddy moving out on X date and speculating about new pets, bedrooms etc. Because that can come next, when I know for certain about these things.

OP posts:
YetMoreNewBeginnings · 28/06/2023 13:12

Turtleyturtles · 28/06/2023 11:11

I think she is getting through to him and seeing progress and you're right, this is probably an ego boost. But the six month thing wasn't her idea, it came from me and my ex. He wanted much longer and was astonished, acting bemused and overwhelmed that I wanted him to move out any sooner. The counsellor has said most women wouldn't put up with it and that most women would be straight to court to get him out. She says, after seeing us both for 10 or so sessions, that he is controlling and emotionally abusive and that I am a victim. I had no idea about this, so I think she's good and I'm glad we went because no one else has ever told me this. It really has opened my eyes. Other people just think he's a bit useless and that I am well organised and that 'opposites attract' etc. Regardless, I'm seeing a solicitor and will indeed stop faffing about!

Show quote history

If he’s controlling and abusive then the counsellor should have put a stop to joint counselling - it’s absolutely not recommended to have counselling with an abusive partner.

Original poster
Turtleyturtles · 28/06/2023 13:15

Update: appointment with a solictor booked for next Thursday to understand my rights better. Also referral filled in for mediation: funded by the Mediation Voucher Scheme. What we agree in mediation can be turned into legal binding documents. So thanks everyone, this has been a real kick up the arse.

OP posts:
Original poster
Turtleyturtles · 28/06/2023 13:18

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 28/06/2023 13:12

If he’s controlling and abusive then the counsellor should have put a stop to joint counselling - it’s absolutely not recommended to have counselling with an abusive partner.

Show quote history

Okay, thanks for that. I will ask her about this. I suspect it's because his emotional abuse isn't intentional as such and isn't that bad. But she did actually say "abuse is abuse" and talked about writing it down and telling her supervision team. And I know that even if it isn't that bad, I don't have to put up with it and he needs to leave and stop it.

OP posts:
SheilaFentiman · 28/06/2023 13:24

Turtleyturtles · 28/06/2023 13:15

Update: appointment with a solictor booked for next Thursday to understand my rights better. Also referral filled in for mediation: funded by the Mediation Voucher Scheme. What we agree in mediation can be turned into legal binding documents. So thanks everyone, this has been a real kick up the arse.

Well done, OP

SheilaFentiman · 28/06/2023 13:25

Turtleyturtles · 28/06/2023 13:18

Okay, thanks for that. I will ask her about this. I suspect it's because his emotional abuse isn't intentional as such and isn't that bad. But she did actually say "abuse is abuse" and talked about writing it down and telling her supervision team. And I know that even if it isn't that bad, I don't have to put up with it and he needs to leave and stop it.

Show quote history

It may be something that has taken her a while to spot and fair enough that she wants to talk to a supervisor about it

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 28/06/2023 13:27

Turtleyturtles · 28/06/2023 13:18

Okay, thanks for that. I will ask her about this. I suspect it's because his emotional abuse isn't intentional as such and isn't that bad. But she did actually say "abuse is abuse" and talked about writing it down and telling her supervision team. And I know that even if it isn't that bad, I don't have to put up with it and he needs to leave and stop it.

Show quote history

Hopefully once she’s spoken with her supervisors she’ll advise accordingly.

It may be the first time she’s spotted it mid sessions and she won’t want to put you at any risk of escalation if she pulls the sessions instantly.

Has she told him that he’s been abusive to you?

MrsSquirrel · 28/06/2023 13:59

His emotional abuse isn't intentional as such and isn't that bad

It is that bad OP. You have been conditioned to accept it by years of this kind of behaviour.

And of course it is intentional. He is in control of his behaviour and he knows very well what he is doing. OK maybe his intent is primarily to get what he wants rather than to harm you and your dc, but so what? His behaviour is harming you and your dc. He knows failing to pick the dc up from school is distressing for them, but he does it anyway.

Original poster
Turtleyturtles · 28/06/2023 14:09

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 28/06/2023 13:27

Hopefully once she’s spoken with her supervisors she’ll advise accordingly.

It may be the first time she’s spotted it mid sessions and she won’t want to put you at any risk of escalation if she pulls the sessions instantly.

Has she told him that he’s been abusive to you?

Show quote history

Yes, she pulled him up in a session a couple of weeks ago and said "By saying that you are trying to control her. That is controlling behaviour. You are being manipulative" or something along those lines. He walked about, apparently astonished and bemused then apologised to us both. He has had a session with her on his own since so I'm not sure what they talked about.

OP posts:
Original poster
Turtleyturtles · 28/06/2023 14:17

MrsSquirrel · 28/06/2023 13:59

His emotional abuse isn't intentional as such and isn't that bad

It is that bad OP. You have been conditioned to accept it by years of this kind of behaviour.

And of course it is intentional. He is in control of his behaviour and he knows very well what he is doing. OK maybe his intent is primarily to get what he wants rather than to harm you and your dc, but so what? His behaviour is harming you and your dc. He knows failing to pick the dc up from school is distressing for them, but he does it anyway.

Yes, I accept that. He is self centred, another thing the counsellor said. And yet I thought I was the self centred one! That's what he always said, pretty much the moment I assert myself and have needs or preferences I am ridiculous or selfish. For example if I say I feel cold, he tells me it isn't cold! Or if I put a boundary around a thing I am doing (exercise for example), he says it's alright for me, I have it easy - if only he had time to exercise! I'm doing a qualification at the moment. He's not supportive, he just talks about how he's always wanted to do the same qualification but can't. He's victim all the way.

OP posts:
defi · 28/06/2023 14:20

He sounds awful. Well done for leaving! Can you kick him out sooner

SheilaFentiman · 28/06/2023 14:37

He has no time to exercise but has time to nap at 3pm on a WFH day?

Hmm....

YouTarzan · 28/06/2023 14:46

Thank god you have a solicitors appointment booked. I know you have previously said he has 6 months to move out, but I think that missing 4 pick ups in one month (who does that?!) is a good reason to say that circumstances have changed, and things need to move more quickly. The fact that his behaviour will now be raising safeguarding concerns at the school means that you need to accelerate the split.

Original poster
Turtleyturtles · 28/06/2023 14:46

SheilaFentiman · 28/06/2023 14:37

He has no time to exercise but has time to nap at 3pm on a WFH day?

Hmm....

😂

OP posts:
YouTarzan · 28/06/2023 14:48

I would also consider seeing more than one solicitor, to get a second opinion. When I got divorced, the first one I spoke to was horribly patronising, and just like any other professions, there are good and bad out there.

Whatonearth07957 · 28/06/2023 15:35

You sound great proactively sorting this out. Definitely keep a log in case he tries to come back as father of the year

AuntieJoyce · 28/06/2023 15:59

the counsellor shouldn’t be seeing him on his own if you go jointly. He should be seeing someone else

This ship are sailed for you but for anyone else reading this, setting out the percentage splits on the sale of the house is only part of the agreement. It’s also really important for it to set out the process that will be gone through if you split up.

For example how to value the house, how one party can buy another out and timescales

FiddleLeaf · 28/06/2023 16:04

Sounds like my father. He started off being late or not showing up then it progressed to forgetting to call on birthdays, Christmas etc. I feel for your kids. It’s rejection over and over.