Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Please remind me that they don't change...

219 replies

Toomuchwine89 · 28/03/2023 06:30

I'm currently in refuge, been here for four months now (no physical violence).

Ex has flipped between love bombing, emailing via solicitor to ask me to reconcile (there's a non molestation order in place), filing for divorce, asking to stop the divorce, dropping the step kids like hot shit, saying he wants to see the step kids, applying to court to see his bio children, saying he doesn't want to go through court, applying for a prohibited steps order to stop us moving anywhere, but not letting us back to the family home while I'm stuck in refuge with six children.

Anyway yesterday was the first court hearing for the child arrangement order. It was over video link. He looked broken (but I don't feel THAT sorry for him). He was given indirect contact for now (he can drop letters and presents off to my solicitor, and I'll get charged every time ffs).

I didn't know until just before the hearing that he'd emailed the court a few days ago, basically a letter to me. Firstly he apologised for everything, accepted how terrible he'd treated us all and said he wanted to rebuild his relationship with all six kids. Then he wrote a paragraph directly to me... Basically saying how he will always love me and truly believes we can work on our marriage, especially as he's had counselling. He even said during the court hearing that he's not clear what the future will hold for me and him!

I left because of emotional, sexual and verbal abuse - with the latter mostly towards the children.

I so nearly emailed him last night, but didn't. If he replied then I could technically have had him arrested for breaking the non molestation order and I don't want to be that person.

I'm right to stay away, aren't I? Or could he have changed? We were together six years. He was bad all the way through tbf.

OP posts:
Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 28/03/2023 14:11

TeeBee · 28/03/2023 08:08

Oh, he's done quite the number on you, hasn't he?
If you go back OP, you know what's in store...much of the same. You'll find yourself in exactly the same place months down the line when he hasn't changed. Your poor children. But you getting out, despite being in temporary accommodation, has already had a positive effect on them...and you. Focus on that and keep moving forward. If you can't do it to save yourself, do it for those poor kids.

It's just so hard to know if I've done the right thing. For the older ones probably yes, but I reckon the younger ones miss having a father figure sometimes

OP posts:
Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 28/03/2023 14:12

LiliLil · 28/03/2023 08:12

What he said about you having a man in the house shows you that he sees you as his possession. If he was a good, decent man and you split up he would want you and the children to be in the family home while things got sorted.

Its so hard to break away, I’m a year out and even this morning wanted to reach out to him but I won’t, I can never put myself through that again. Your thread has helped me actually.

Its not love, it’s control. You don’t love him. You’re attached to him.

Your life will be so much happier without him I promise. It’s normal to have wobbles, healing is not linear. Keep posting, we’re here x

I don't love him and I didn't love him when I left. But my brain sometimes thinks I do! I know it's control. And I'm really glad this thread has helped you too xx

OP posts:
Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 28/03/2023 14:16

GreyPaw · 28/03/2023 08:33

From someone who works in the sector, they can sort of change but only with some very targeted and comprehensive work. Anything else is part of the cycle. His broken-ness might be a result of the fact that he's feeling sorry for himself and perhaps in this moment in time has some intentions to change, but it's likely to be fleeting (if real at all).

What I see in these cases is that underpinning the broken-ness is a sense of anger and outrage. When a relationship ends, a non-abuser is sad, whilst a non-abuser is outraged that they've been left.

And this outrage comes out in the "me me me" attitude that you see in the aftermath, and that you're probably seeing now. When he's talking about missing seeing his daughter on her birthday, listen carefully. It's most likely to be centred around how bad that makes HIM feel, and how HE'S missing out. It's like the way abusers talk about child contact - THEY want THEIR rights. It's not often framed in terms of their child's rights and what their child might want.

And wider than that, an abusers reasoning for wanting the relationship back is usually framed around what THEY want as well. It'll be about how terrible they feel, and how they just want things back the way it was (I bet they do), and how they just want the chance to show you etc etc etc. I've hardly ever known of an abusive man at this stage to say an open and honest "I'm so sorry, I messed up - what do YOU need. What are YOUR goals and aspirations". And then, crucially, honour those things by giving you space if that's what you ask for.

IME, they push all the buttons that worked before. And if those buttons don't work the first time, they'll go back round and push them all harder and faster, wondering why they don't work this time when they have in the past. And then they'll try some different buttons. The buttons won't include love, care or respect though.

Abused people who go back into relationships don't go back to abuse, they go back to the love-bombing person. But one doesn't exist without the other - he's the whole package and likely always will be.

Oh everything since he left has been about him. His wants, his feelings, his needs, his suggestions. And I did think about this re the birthday on Friday. She will be TWO - she won't even understand what a birthday is all about, never mind who is there or not! Definitely all about him. HE wants to get divorced. No. HE wants to save the marriage. HE wants us to be in contact. HE doesn't see the point of the non mol. Honestly, you should see some of his court paperwork!

I am a little worried now though because the judge strongly advised that he lawyers up. Could have done with him to continue representing himself tbh...

OP posts:
Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 28/03/2023 14:19

GreyPaw · 28/03/2023 08:39

And just to add to what I just said, him contacting you through your solicitor is a case in point. He knows FULL WELL what that non-molestation order means. He knows you went to some effort to get that and have it served on him, and he knows it means you want to be left alone. He knows that. And yet because HE wants to talk, he's finding ways round it. He can't even honour your need for some space without direct contact from him, despite everything he's done. He could let the solicitors deal with the child-related issues, but no. Tells you everything about his ongoing state of mind, IMO.

Oh trust me, I was so stressed about that. Very sly. I did report to the police but they said it wasn't a breach because it was via a solicitor. But it was about us getting back together, not the children!! He's always been a control freak and he will be struggling with not knowing what the future will hold. Well, neither do I ffs! I don't even know when or where we'll be offered housing

OP posts:
DeeCeeCherry · 28/03/2023 14:20

And I don't want to regret it when he meets someone else and starts love bombing her!

Your children don't deserve this. Really - they don't

Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 28/03/2023 14:21

Butterfly44 · 28/03/2023 08:40

This
A thousand times over.
How far you've come since in such a short time compared to all those years.

He is classically trying it all, saying things you want to hear. It will be the same if you went back, deep down he will not forgive you for having done this, but can't tell you at this time. He's saving all that anger for later. Your children will not do well in that environment.

Right now you are all thriving. Please carry on forwards and don't look back. For your children, for yourself, for your futures. Flowers

Show quote history

Thank you lovely ❤️

I definitely agree now that he's saying what he thinks I want to hear. It's funny how there's been absolutely no mention of the older children until I told his old solicitor how nonsensical it was that he "didn't want to lose his family", then all of a sudden he's seeking contact with the step kids 🙄

OP posts:
Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 28/03/2023 14:21

DeeCeeCherry · 28/03/2023 14:20

And I don't want to regret it when he meets someone else and starts love bombing her!

Your children don't deserve this. Really - they don't

I know :( x

OP posts:
Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 28/03/2023 14:25

callthataspade · 28/03/2023 08:43

Ah just read your update. That's amazing.

Totally agree with everyone. Print that out and stick it on your fridge

Honestly you've done the hardest bit. Be proud of yourself. You've got this.

And always come back here if you need a boost/reality check.

To do what you've done takes enormous strength. And yeah the fact he's let you and the kids go to a refuge shows exactly who he is. And that is never going to change.

Thank you x

He also acts like us leaving for refuge was a bolt from the blue - okay, yes, I accept it would have been a shock to come home from work to that.

However.

Merely three weeks previously, he'd been so awful that I booked a caravan holiday last minute and took the children there over half term without telling him. I got there and let him know what I'd done and said I need space. My plan was to pretty much ignore my phone and reconnect with the kids. But he rang and messaged loads, to the point I was always on my phone, because he was writing huge essays about how he realised he had done wrong, he's so sorry, he will change etc.

We went home, the house was immaculate and he was lovely to everyone. It lasted two days. I feel like that was my warning shot.

You know I'd almost forgotten all that

OP posts:
Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 28/03/2023 14:27

Nailsandthesea · 28/03/2023 08:45

This.

He can’t contact you direct and knows it - so is using the court process.

Stay strong. You have seen the real him. And no he will never change. It will be a million times worse if you ever go back as one day he will punish you all for daring to leave and stand up for yourself.

trauma bonding is real.

Show quote history

I knew he'd use the court process. And it's crap because it's so archaic.

It does seem pretty fair at the minute though. The judge read through my allegations and described them as "serious"

OP posts:
Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 28/03/2023 14:28

Pickle4444 · 28/03/2023 09:22

OP - you are doing SO well. I know exactly what you are going through. I also left an abusive marriage, though thankfully I didn’t have children. You are an absolute hero staying strong with six little ones.

They never change. Domestic abuse is the work of someone with a narcissistic personality type and in my opinion they do not change, even with counselling. It is who they are. It can be tempting to dream of going back and it all being better and easier but it will only continue to get worse. You are doing the right thing.

and a law degree too! I did my law degree with the OU during my marriage (wasn’t allowed to work) and I left and basically gave up everything to become a barrister. I’m two years out. Even I have bad days now and wonder if it was the right thing. Don’t doubt yourself. You know what he is, you can see how much better you and DC are doing.

sending you so much strength x

Thank you! Well done you for getting out. It's so so hard.

I've always wanted to do a Law degree. It will be with the OU as I've been to uni before. How did you find it?

OP posts:
Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 28/03/2023 14:30

Channellingsophistication · 28/03/2023 09:35

You are doing so well - your health and wellbeing has improved and same for kids. You are protecting them - they must feel so much safer and probably more than you know. You were all living under so much strain.

Men like that always make the “good” wonderful thats how the game works isnt it?

keep going forward dont look back.

Thank you.

I feel like a crap mum sometimes but hopefully my 11 year old doesn't mean the nasty things she says to me sometimes!

OP posts:
Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 28/03/2023 14:33

Bunnyhascovidnoteggs · 28/03/2023 09:39

My exh raged at me he had also had the snip. I told him it prevented any other woman going through what I did - we had 3 x ds's. Ds still has therapy from witnessing his df's anger issues and he is 31.. We divorced when ds was 7 and he didn't have to see his df the judge decided...

Ah I'm so jealous! I was scared of looking obstructive so I agreed to the letters and presents. Wish I'd said no now. Oh well.

We've also got to think about how contact will move forward by the next hearing, with him seeking legal advice especially if he wants to see all six. Etc am I supposed to say to that? Contact centre?!

OP posts:
Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 28/03/2023 14:34

Deathraystare · 28/03/2023 11:08

@Toomuchwine89

I left because of emotional, sexual and verbal abuse - with the latter mostly towards the children.

Give your head a wobble and remind yourself of the above words. If you do need to, imagine a friend in the same predicament and say the above out loud. Think of your kids!!

Oh I have pretty nasty video evidence of it to watch when I feel confused. If anyone wants to see it to confirm it was "that bad", please let me know. Because every relationship I've ever had (including with my parents) has been abusive, so I'm all skewed

OP posts:
Definitelycross · 28/03/2023 14:43

You've come so far.

My STBXH tried this with me. I'd been with him 33 years and never saw him cry until I made him leave and stood up to him.

He cried, he looked awful, he was so sorry - but at the same time he was living with someone else, still having a great old time with our joint account.

When I cleared all the money, that was mine, out his whole approach to me changed. When he saw I wasn't listening he showed me how evil he really was.

And as for his next victim/woman? I even spoke to her to try to warn her but of course I had him all wrong whereas she was going to properly look after and support him.

They don't change. Ever.

My children have positively flourished. Not always, granted, but overall they have a much brighter present and aspirational futures that are built on facts not promises and lies.

Stay strong. You've done so well so far. I read somewhere that we are supplies for them. I'm not sure of the correct wording but you need to keep that contact cut and build on your strength.

LexMitior · 28/03/2023 14:45

It's all words and words are cheap.

Don't move or budge. You saw how this man acted. That's what you pay attention to, not a few words.

Definitelycross · 28/03/2023 14:48

And think of the example you're setting for your children.

I cried the other week when one of mine said that I had given him so much strength and shown him how to be in a healthy relationship.

They're respectful young adults now with more emotional intelligence than he could even dream of.

Good luck. I know it's really hard especially if you've not had great relationships in the past too.

littlenickyy61 · 28/03/2023 15:06

Yes they do change - enough to tempt you to go back and then once you have they revert to their previous abuse and usually worse as they punish you for leaving

Tiger2018 · 28/03/2023 15:24

I agree with @littlenickyy61 honestly OP, he will promise the earth to keep you - but it's all a lie. A person cannot change who they are unless they choose to change for themselves. For no other benefit apart from they are a better person. Doesn't sound like your ex can do the work for that.

To keep strong when I was leaving, I wrote a list (added to all the time) about what my future could look like - my own house that was safe and nothing left of him, safety for my children, a good career, financial independence and yes a kick-ass partner (in time) who loves me and shows me that he loves me...none of this should make me feel sad, angry, hopeless. If I went back, I couldn't see these things in my future.

I'm cheering you on! x

Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 28/03/2023 17:01

Definitelycross · 28/03/2023 14:43

You've come so far.

My STBXH tried this with me. I'd been with him 33 years and never saw him cry until I made him leave and stood up to him.

He cried, he looked awful, he was so sorry - but at the same time he was living with someone else, still having a great old time with our joint account.

When I cleared all the money, that was mine, out his whole approach to me changed. When he saw I wasn't listening he showed me how evil he really was.

And as for his next victim/woman? I even spoke to her to try to warn her but of course I had him all wrong whereas she was going to properly look after and support him.

They don't change. Ever.

My children have positively flourished. Not always, granted, but overall they have a much brighter present and aspirational futures that are built on facts not promises and lies.

Stay strong. You've done so well so far. I read somewhere that we are supplies for them. I'm not sure of the correct wording but you need to keep that contact cut and build on your strength.

Thank you. We're definitely supplies. He was fuming if I wouldn't have sex with him because that gave him supply. We did everything together.

OP posts:
Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 28/03/2023 17:02

Definitelycross · 28/03/2023 14:48

And think of the example you're setting for your children.

I cried the other week when one of mine said that I had given him so much strength and shown him how to be in a healthy relationship.

They're respectful young adults now with more emotional intelligence than he could even dream of.

Good luck. I know it's really hard especially if you've not had great relationships in the past too.

Aww that's lovely.

I'm going to put my heart and soul into this statement for the court because I really don't think he should be around small children tbh

OP posts:
Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 28/03/2023 17:03

littlenickyy61 · 28/03/2023 15:06

Yes they do change - enough to tempt you to go back and then once you have they revert to their previous abuse and usually worse as they punish you for leaving

Yeh I agree x

OP posts:
Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 28/03/2023 17:06

Tiger2018 · 28/03/2023 15:24

I agree with @littlenickyy61 honestly OP, he will promise the earth to keep you - but it's all a lie. A person cannot change who they are unless they choose to change for themselves. For no other benefit apart from they are a better person. Doesn't sound like your ex can do the work for that.

To keep strong when I was leaving, I wrote a list (added to all the time) about what my future could look like - my own house that was safe and nothing left of him, safety for my children, a good career, financial independence and yes a kick-ass partner (in time) who loves me and shows me that he loves me...none of this should make me feel sad, angry, hopeless. If I went back, I couldn't see these things in my future.

I'm cheering you on! x

I love your list! I've been mentally compiling one over the months.

One of the main ones is to have a house in my name again, just for me and the kids. Even though we were married, even though I put a lot of money into the house, even though I decorated it, paid workmen and kept it clean, the mortgage was only in his name. He used to love saying "it's MY house!" when he was pissed off. And the insecurity of that life was destroying me

OP posts:
Definitelycross · 28/03/2023 17:17

@Tiger2018

That's just what I did only in a journal. It was so good. Only don't go back and read those entries. It's best they're down and gone from your mind.

I also wrote a letter to myself from five years ahead telling me what my life was like and how the kids were. This is more like you said.

I know that sounds a bit batshit but it was honestly so, so positive. Now and then when little things happen as in the letter I smile to myself.

I'm in charge of my life now. I make the decisions.

And also @Toomuchwine89 mine complained about sex. And hated if I talked to anyone else about our home life.

They only change in that they gain strength when we allow things to continue. You're strong and you have all of us behind you.

Well done

LiliLil · 28/03/2023 17:24

I’m sorry you had an abusive upbringing.

You’ve broken the cycle for your children. You should be so proud of that x

Original poster
Toomuchwine89 · 28/03/2023 20:44

Definitelycross · 28/03/2023 17:17

@Tiger2018

That's just what I did only in a journal. It was so good. Only don't go back and read those entries. It's best they're down and gone from your mind.

I also wrote a letter to myself from five years ahead telling me what my life was like and how the kids were. This is more like you said.

I know that sounds a bit batshit but it was honestly so, so positive. Now and then when little things happen as in the letter I smile to myself.

I'm in charge of my life now. I make the decisions.

And also @Toomuchwine89 mine complained about sex. And hated if I talked to anyone else about our home life.

They only change in that they gain strength when we allow things to continue. You're strong and you have all of us behind you.

Well done

Thank you so much. And I love the future me letter idea!

OP posts: