Please remind me that they don't change...

[Toomuchwine89]

I'm currently in refuge, been here for four months now (no physical violence).

Ex has flipped between love bombing, emailing via solicitor to ask me to reconcile (there's a non molestation order in place), filing for divorce, asking to stop the divorce, dropping the step kids like hot shit, saying he wants to see the step kids, applying to court to see his bio children, saying he doesn't want to go through court, applying for a prohibited steps order to stop us moving anywhere, but not letting us back to the family home while I'm stuck in refuge with six children.

Anyway yesterday was the first court hearing for the child arrangement order. It was over video link. He looked broken (but I don't feel THAT sorry for him). He was given indirect contact for now (he can drop letters and presents off to my solicitor, and I'll get charged every time ffs).

I didn't know until just before the hearing that he'd emailed the court a few days ago, basically a letter to me. Firstly he apologised for everything, accepted how terrible he'd treated us all and said he wanted to rebuild his relationship with all six kids. Then he wrote a paragraph directly to me... Basically saying how he will always love me and truly believes we can work on our marriage, especially as he's had counselling. He even said during the court hearing that he's not clear what the future will hold for me and him!

I left because of emotional, sexual and verbal abuse - with the latter mostly towards the children.

I so nearly emailed him last night, but didn't. If he replied then I could technically have had him arrested for breaking the non molestation order and I don't want to be that person.

I'm right to stay away, aren't I? Or could he have changed? We were together six years. He was bad all the way through tbf.

Yes the house thing is one thing that really makes me realise he's still a cunt.

When I first left, I agreed to speak to him. He spent hours begging me to go back. I asked why he couldn't move out, while we stayed in the house, at least temporarily. He said "because you might have another man there, and it would be horrible".

In all his extensive communication since, he hasn't ONCE mentioned or suggested me and the kids being able to live at the house. Even though it's in the village with their school, nursery, friends. He doesn't have any friends or family there. He just won't let us back unless he is there too.

If he loved you or the kids he’d had left the house so you would not have to uproot them and live in a hostel. You know that.

He is incapable of love.

Stay away. Do not fuck your kids up all over again when they are healing and finally seeing boundaries and positive behaviours for life.

On your “weak” days be strong for them. You are ALL worth it.

Oh, he's done quite the number on you, hasn't he?
If you go back OP, you know what's in store...much of the same. You'll find yourself in exactly the same place months down the line when he hasn't changed. Your poor children. But you getting out, despite being in temporary accommodation, has already had a positive effect on them...and you. Focus on that and keep moving forward. If you can't do it to save yourself, do it for those poor kids.

What he said about you having a man in the house shows you that he sees you as his possession. If he was a good, decent man and you split up he would want you and the children to be in the family home while things got sorted.

Its so hard to break away, I’m a year out and even this morning wanted to reach out to him but I won’t, I can never put myself through that again. Your thread has helped me actually.

Its not love, it’s control. You don’t love him. You’re attached to him.

Your life will be so much happier without him I promise. It’s normal to have wobbles, healing is not linear. Keep posting, we’re here x

From someone who works in the sector, they can sort of change but only with some very targeted and comprehensive work. Anything else is part of the cycle. His broken-ness might be a result of the fact that he's feeling sorry for himself and perhaps in this moment in time has some intentions to change, but it's likely to be fleeting (if real at all).

What I see in these cases is that underpinning the broken-ness is a sense of anger and outrage. When a relationship ends, a non-abuser is sad, whilst a non-abuser is outraged that they've been left.

And this outrage comes out in the "me me me" attitude that you see in the aftermath, and that you're probably seeing now. When he's talking about missing seeing his daughter on her birthday, listen carefully. It's most likely to be centred around how bad that makes HIM feel, and how HE'S missing out. It's like the way abusers talk about child contact - THEY want THEIR rights. It's not often framed in terms of their child's rights and what their child might want.

And wider than that, an abusers reasoning for wanting the relationship back is usually framed around what THEY want as well. It'll be about how terrible they feel, and how they just want things back the way it was (I bet they do), and how they just want the chance to show you etc etc etc. I've hardly ever known of an abusive man at this stage to say an open and honest "I'm so sorry, I messed up - what do YOU need. What are YOUR goals and aspirations". And then, crucially, honour those things by giving you space if that's what you ask for.

IME, they push all the buttons that worked before. And if those buttons don't work the first time, they'll go back round and push them all harder and faster, wondering why they don't work this time when they have in the past. And then they'll try some different buttons. The buttons won't include love, care or respect though.

Abused people who go back into relationships don't go back to abuse, they go back to the love-bombing person. But one doesn't exist without the other - he's the whole package and likely always will be.

Read love bombing her as the start of his abuse pattern...she will be a victim as much as you were.

Don't take him back, think of yourself and your children

And just to add to what I just said, him contacting you through your solicitor is a case in point. He knows FULL WELL what that non-molestation order means. He knows you went to some effort to get that and have it served on him, and he knows it means you want to be left alone. He knows that. And yet because HE wants to talk, he's finding ways round it. He can't even honour your need for some space without direct contact from him, despite everything he's done. He could let the solicitors deal with the child-related issues, but no. Tells you everything about his ongoing state of mind, IMO.

This
A thousand times over.
How far you've come since in such a short time compared to all those years.

He is classically trying it all, saying things you want to hear. It will be the same if you went back, deep down he will not forgive you for having done this, but can't tell you at this time. He's saving all that anger for later. Your children will not do well in that environment.

Right now you are all thriving. Please carry on forwards and don't look back. For your children, for yourself, for your futures.

Ah just read your update. That's amazing.

Totally agree with everyone. Print that out and stick it on your fridge

Honestly you've done the hardest bit. Be proud of yourself. You've got this.

And always come back here if you need a boost/reality check.

To do what you've done takes enormous strength. And yeah the fact he's let you and the kids go to a refuge shows exactly who he is. And that is never going to change.

This.

He can’t contact you direct and knows it - so is using the court process.

Stay strong. You have seen the real him. And no he will never change. It will be a million times worse if you ever go back as one day he will punish you all for daring to leave and stand up for yourself.

trauma bonding is real.

OP - you are doing SO well. I know exactly what you are going through. I also left an abusive marriage, though thankfully I didn’t have children. You are an absolute hero staying strong with six little ones.

They never change. Domestic abuse is the work of someone with a narcissistic personality type and in my opinion they do not change, even with counselling. It is who they are. It can be tempting to dream of going back and it all being better and easier but it will only continue to get worse. You are doing the right thing.

and a law degree too! I did my law degree with the OU during my marriage (wasn’t allowed to work) and I left and basically gave up everything to become a barrister. I’m two years out. Even I have bad days now and wonder if it was the right thing. Don’t doubt yourself. You know what he is, you can see how much better you and DC are doing.

sending you so much strength x

Oh and in terms of resources I found Dr Ramani’s videos on YouTube really helpful

You are doing so well - your health and wellbeing has improved and same for kids. You are protecting them - they must feel so much safer and probably more than you know. You were all living under so much strain.

Men like that always make the “good” wonderful thats how the game works isnt it?

keep going forward dont look back.

My exh raged at me he had also had the snip. I told him it prevented any other woman going through what I did - we had 3 x ds's. Ds still has therapy from witnessing his df's anger issues and he is 31.. We divorced when ds was 7 and he didn't have to see his df the judge decided...

@Toomuchwine89

I left because of emotional, sexual and verbal abuse - with the latter mostly towards the children.

Give your head a wobble and remind yourself of the above words. If you do need to, imagine a friend in the same predicament and say the above out loud. Think of your kids!!

The abusive husband in "Chocolat" all cleaned up and penitent and sincere with the flowers in his hand is popping into my mind here.

And what did he end up doing?

I left because of emotional, sexual and verbal abuse - with the latter mostly towards the children.

It's a whole lot of effort to find and train someone again.

And he's looking at losing 50% of joint assets.

And he's going to be on the wrong end of the cm for 6 kids.

And he looks like a loser and failure, with his wife running away from him and taking the kids.

Of course he'd like you back.

He probably only started the proceedings in a fit of temper or to try to scare you.

6 children in a refuge while that selfish pig remains in the house.

Your poor children and what they have been put through.

OP, I strongly suggest you focus on the life long damage he has done to those children, which you may not seen until they hit their teens.

I would focus on getting them every bit of help to process and heal, otherwise they could end up acting out in all sorts of ways and you will feel so awful to see them in such pain.

Your children are safe now, finally, from his abuse.

Don't return them to that hell.

He cares only for himself.

Keep thinking of the improvement in your children.

Great post as usual.....in a nutshell.

Ugh I hate how thick he is, yet so good at manipulation!
I think 'stupid like a fox' is the best way of putting it, he's not strong intellectually but he has 'animal cunning', his manipulation is not the result of a thought through strategy, it's instinctive, or in other words it's who he is.
The leopard spots will not change, his self-esteem comes from putting everyone else down and dominating you all, he has brainwashed you and he is feeding off of all of you.

I'd also like to point out that men who are very possessive and paranoid about their partner cheating are often projecting their own values and what they'd be likely to do if an opportunity came their way.

Combined with the apparent sex pest, sexual coercion, sexual abuse - it paints a picture of a sex obsessed and possibly not trustworthy (in terms of fidelity) man.

The sexual coercion and abuse also lines up with his possessiveness; he apparently sees you as a possession that no other man can have/he can't abide the idea of another man having (even when you're separated/over), and he also sees you as something (I hesituaee to even say someone) he is entitled to have as and when he wants to (when you were with him).

He might go quietly esp. if he finds another possession partner, bug id be very careful about protecting yourself if he doesn't; when he realises you really mean to follow through and you may get another partner sooner or later. Women have been hurt and killed by men who think of them as posessions.

Thank you x

So shit. He gets to be the fun one now who buys presents 🙄 and he's saying that he wants to see all six - but I think he's only saying it to win me over. I bet a million pounds he'll abandon them when he realises I'm not going back

It sounds like you've been a boiled frog for quite a long time with sexual and emotional abuse towards you, and emotional/verbal abuse towards your poor kids ..... You don't want to jump back into that boiling pot. You and your kids are already damaged from it, avd will only get more damaged.

And as Billy has pointed out, the selfishness of a man occupying the family home on his jack Jones, while his 6 kids are in a refuse and inconvenient for everything they need to attend; says it all. For all his (delusional) "penitence", he hasn't put them or you first at all, he's still comfortably ensconced where he privately thinks he should be, in the castle as it's king.

I bet a million pounds he'll abandon them when he realises I'm not going back

That might be a good thing given he's verbally abusive to them.

And you wouldn't even be there to intervebe.

@Toomuchwine89 I wish my mum had found the strength to do what you’ve managed to do. She didn’t. She finally managed to leave after over 20 years. Too late for my childhood self.
Sending you strength. Much respect to you awesome lady!