The perils of a partly open relationship...

[OblongCircles]

We are a married couple, both late thirties. Got together in our late teens.

My wife has always liked women as well as men, played around with some women before we were together, but never had a serious relationship other than me.

We've got a pretty good sex life. She's a bit into kink and roleplay, which I'm not, but I think we are both happy with it.

But (there was always going to be a but!)...

She would like permission to play around with women. Not to have a relationship or anything - just physical stuff.

I'm not super-keen on her doing this - it maybe selfish of me, but I'd rather have her to myself. Still, I don't think I would feel too threatened, or replaced, as long as she wasn't sleeping with other guys.

It also feels a bit one-sided. She said that she's happy for me to explore with men, but I'm straight, so don't want to! She says that she as she will only be seeing women outside our relationship (not men), that it would be wrong for me to see other women.

I don't know whether to:

(a) say no to the whole thing
(b) say okay, but insist that its open on my side to sleep with women
(c) open it up on her side only.

Has anyone been through this kind of thing?

Thanks!

It seems those who are straight see this in black and white, those who are bi in grey

i remember a post some months back where a woman posted that her new bf was bi and she wasnt sure how she felt. Quite a few posters said they would never date a bi person, probably half said as long as he was monogamous it would be fine but if he wanted to shag men they’d be off. Very, very few said they’d be ok with him having sex with men and most of those were bi with bi partners.

OP, as marbles suggested how would she react if she could no longer meet your needs and you wanted to go elsewhere?
For what its worth i am male and wouldn’t agree and open relationship even if my partner was only sleeping with women.

If you are in a relationship, 3somes and swinging are only great if watching/ being watched/ sharing your partner turns you on...

Exactly this.

The Op has no appeal in watching his wife, nor she in being watched, from the sounds of it so why that was suggested is quite baffling. probably the assumption that the bloke will enjoy watching the women and the women will enjoy giving him a show.

women are notorious for hating being with bi men!

It's a definite double standard. Sorry about that!

women are notorious for hating being with bi men!

Society in general is far less tolerant of bi men than bi women. A male equivalent of SC would be quickly denounced as deviant and seedy. Can you imagine a male equivalent having a nice glossy public web page or a swanky London venue welcoming them to host a party??

But the tolerance of bi women is quite superficial, it's ok when it's in porn, for titillation or entertainment or something you dabbled with in college, a phase you grew out of but try to discuss it as a established part of your adult sexuality and it soon gets people's backs up.

It's hard though, especially if you are bi in a straight relationship to feel like you're not abandoning a part of your identity when everyone assumes you must be straight now! Sometimes just having a space to be seen as bi can be very important, even if you have no intention of being non-monogamous.

@LikeMindedLady

I read a statistic about bisexual people in relationships - can't remember where - apparently more than 80% of bisexual people are in a relationship with opposite sex partners. I guess maybe that's because the dating pool is large for opposite sex partners. If that is true, there must be a lot of bisexual women who are having to suppress their attraction to the same sex.

I wonder if it happens the other way around? Do bisexual women with a same-sex partner feel the need to have physical intimacy with men outside of their relationship? The same principles you talk about (abandoning part of your identity) must apply that way around too.

People seem to largely think bi men are promiscuous or gay and that bi women just say they’re bi as it’s more exciting sounding than being straight. They’re both lazy stereotypes and they get pedalled on MN and elsewhere a lot. I think a lot of peoples thought process goes as far as where a penis is or isn’t being placed.

Back to your Q though OP! There are women who go to skirt club, have sex with women there and consider themselves straight. They do have socials but those are mainly about having somewhere to talk with likeminded women. It’s not really expressly designed for dating. So it’s not impossible it’d be beyond the event but that’s not the general vibe.

The real answer lies in what your wife is thinking of and whether she wants a little no-strings sex or whether she’s actually thinking more or a traditional open relationship where emotional connections can be formed.

Oh, sorry I missed your lastest post. I don’t know, I’m afraid. There’s vanishingly little proper research, I’m not sure where a figure like that’d be drawn from when the latest national census found less than 5% of the population isn’t straight (I think)

…’Society in general is far less tolerant of bi men than bi women…..’

I blame Queen Victoria!!
but those on this thread who are bi, would you be happy with a male partner also sleeping with men and going to the male equivalent of SC (which absolutely exist)

no judgement, just curious

@OblongCircles that's a very interesting question! Logically I would expect that to be the case but in reality I don't think it is.

Social norms and comp het probably mean those 20% have had significant opposite-sex relationships and experience of being seen as 'straight' before arriving in a same sex long term relationship so perhaps feel they have explored sufficiently not to have that curiosity. They are immersed in heteronomative culture whether they like it or not so perhaps there's not the same urge to seek it out?

Apologies OP I feel like that's derailing your thread going off on this tangent!

The census is only as accurate as the information put into it though. On forms, any forms if asked, I'd put heterosexual as a straight married to the opposite sex person, but it's not entirely true. I just don't feel the need to label myself, and I suppose I put what is expected of me too. It's wrong to feel that way but the world is a judgemental place. I wonder how many other non straight people would describe themselves as heterosexual because of societal pressure?!

@Otterhound I'd make a guess that a male equivalent of SC is a lot more underground and doesn't market itself to straight/ curious married men in quite the same way!

I would be open to discussing it with my boyfriend if he wanted to explore m/m attraction. Purely from a sexual health and safety point of view, I'd prefer that to be in more of a 1:1 situation than at a sex party but nothing would be off the table in a discussion about it.

Of course it's a risk - it's quite possible to go from casual hook-ups to getting emotionally entangled. No matter what promises are made or lines drawn, people are people, and emotions can get involved.

You can't really legislate for it. Plenty of people in the lifestyle will have their own rules, systems or advice to protect their primary relationships, but NRE is a Thing and emotions don't like boxes. Some relationships will flourish, some are or become pretty toxic, and some apparently strong relationships fall apart.

You can read up about non-monogamy and get your own ideas of how it might work for you guys. I'd want her to be doing that and giving some real thought to the dynamics and emotions involved for you. So far she's failing on the ethical part of ethical non-monogamy by waving around "you could sleep with men!" as if it's a reasonable proposition or equivalent, and therefore comes across as self-serving.

I don't see why you should accept all the emotional risk and her none. Or certainly she should at least recognise that's what she's asking.

I've been shot down in flames before on MN, for suggesting that this scenario is always a risk when dating a person who is bisexual. And here we are. She has an itch that you just can't scratch.

It has to be fair - if she's playing away, then so can you.

I can only offer my experience but this is how it's worked for me.

I joined SC and joined the group most local to me and was added to a WhatsApp group. We chat as a group and occasionally someone will either organise a trip to an official SC party or a night out/in and those who are free attend.
Sometimes that involves going out drinking and dancing but sometimes someone will book a hotel room or AirBnB and we'll all meet there with drinks and food ( there's always food!!lol) and have a party. Unless someone has travelled far then we all end to go home around midnight. Occasionally people meet up 1:1 but it's all generally organised though the group chat and is instigated by someone at loose end or staying in particular place.

HTH

Also, women are quite emotional creatures. Even if your wife thinks she can have sex with other women, with no feelings involved, I suspect that if she's with the same woman for a long time, that feelings might start to grow. What if the other woman is a single lesbian? How long before she gets feelings for your wife, and starts to make demands for her to leave you, and set up honestly with her? Not many people are happy to be a side piece, and certainly not for an extended period.

I remember my male friend having a "no strings" affair with a woman from work. After 6 months, the OW had fallen for him, and was demanding that he left his wife, and she was threatening all sorts of horrific consequences if he didn't. She had saved all of their sexting e-mails, and started to send them to the wife, also ringing the house phone in the middle of the night. It was proper bunny boiler stuff. But in fairness, she felt she'd been strung along, so there you go.

I don't see why you should accept all the emotional risk and her none. Or certainly she should at least recognise that's what she's asking.

Sorry to quote myself like a lemon, but I guess there is actually one emotional risk she would be taking - that afterwards you feel differently about her or your relationship, rather than OK with it or aroused by it.

This makes it sound as though nothing sexual goes on?

So I am kindof bi, but only into emotional relationships with men. There's a lot of 'men who have sex with men MSM' who are the same about women. (Society hasn't always divided people up so neatly on sexuality as we seem to want to now, or recently at least ... as an aside.)

For me it's about the emotional connection and the honesty. There's no room in my main relationship for a romantic attachment to others. Apart from that, I couldn't care less. Men are a lot less of a threat to me (just my pov and knowing my main partner) than other women. I would be majorly pissed off and not tolerate a romantic attachment. I have tons of female friends I might occasionally sleep with but it means nothing either side. We are good friends though, but not romantic partners.

To a pp: From admittedly few lesbians I know its highly unlikely they would have even a short fling with a bi woman with a male partner.

This makes it sound as though nothing sexual goes on?

The parties are not just sitting around eating and drinking .... we're naked pretty much straight away!

We take a break every now and then for food though!

If people are meeting up 1:1 then they're meeting for sex.

That's what you join something like SC. Everyone is on the same page

You are fundamentally incompatible.

She is a bisexual who wants to be polygamous.... Or rather she wants one sided "polygamy" because you are not allowed to have sex with people aligning to your sexual orientation (straight).

She is into kinks and open to swinging, you are not.

She would be a certain demographic's ideal partner (men who are into swinging.... Though the fact that they can't shag anyone else if they have the opportunity would definitely throw a spanner in the works for most of them, unless they happen to be bisexual too and have sex with men - which she "allows".

So she's suited to a bisexual man who's into polygamy, swinging and kinks.

You are not a bisexual man who's into swinging and kinks.

Her "market" is small ish but definitely there. She'll get a bisexual man or possibly a man who's into swinging and letting her have sex with women but not have sex with anyone but her.

You, as a decent late 30s guy who's shown himself to be capable of a long term monogamous relationship and whose relationship has broken down through no fault of his own... And who has no kids yet .... Are fucking gold on the dating market.

You can meet a heterosexual woman who - like most - is not into swinging or kinks. You'll meet one easily.

I know you have a lot of history there and she's your normal ..... But that can be built up with someone else.

I'm sorry but my advice is to cut your losses, get out of the relationship, and find someone else m. There are thousands and thousands of other women who are not bisexual or polygamous or any else.

The sooner you do this, the better. You do not want to end up with children being brought into this situation.

She will make it very hard for you, and keep campaigning for what she wants, or maybe even offer to put what she wants on the back burner and not pursue but that's just wasting both your time.

@LooseGoose22 isn't the whole point of making a commitment to a marriage saying that you are going to try to maintain a life long relationship with someone? That you know it won't always be plain sailing but you promise each other to try really hard to work through difficult situations as a couple and try your very best to grow together and support each other?

It's a lofty goal and not all marriages will work, but the idea that you just chuck a otherwise happy relationship away at the first sign that you are diverging from the teenaged couple you were when you met makes the whole point of marrying void!