The perils of a partly open relationship...

[OblongCircles]

We are a married couple, both late thirties. Got together in our late teens.

My wife has always liked women as well as men, played around with some women before we were together, but never had a serious relationship other than me.

We've got a pretty good sex life. She's a bit into kink and roleplay, which I'm not, but I think we are both happy with it.

But (there was always going to be a but!)...

She would like permission to play around with women. Not to have a relationship or anything - just physical stuff.

I'm not super-keen on her doing this - it maybe selfish of me, but I'd rather have her to myself. Still, I don't think I would feel too threatened, or replaced, as long as she wasn't sleeping with other guys.

It also feels a bit one-sided. She said that she's happy for me to explore with men, but I'm straight, so don't want to! She says that she as she will only be seeing women outside our relationship (not men), that it would be wrong for me to see other women.

I don't know whether to:

(a) say no to the whole thing
(b) say okay, but insist that its open on my side to sleep with women
(c) open it up on her side only.

Has anyone been through this kind of thing?

Thanks!

She said that she's happy for me to explore with men, but I'm straight, so don't want to! She says that she as she will only be seeing women outside our relationship (not men), that it would be wrong for me to see other women

She doesn't sound very nice tbh OP.

I think she sounds open and honest.

You see nothing wrong in suggesting a straight man sleeps with other men ?

Having boundaries is not being prudish.

Imagine if it was a man demanding sex with other men but saying to his wife you can do the same but it has to be with women only because I know you have know sexual interest in women.

Sounds a bit twisted. Erring on abusive.

Relationships come in all forms. Poly-mono relationships exist but it only works if both people are comfortable and accepting. It can also be a lot of hard work to process the different feelings that come up.

You need to establish your wants, needs and boundaries and have an honest conversation with your partner.

Maybe you two aren't a good fit and that is ok.

Don't try to talk yourself or feel pressured into something you are not ok with.

It can be hard navigating "non-traditional" relating. Perhaps look for some support externally?

You think she honestly believed it when she suggested that her sleeping with women outside the marriage as a bisexual woman is equal to offering her husband the 'opportunity' to sleep with men outside the marriage... as a straight man?

Come off it.

People change. You don’t agree not to change. How can you know what you’ll want tomorrow? You can’t think of all eventualities before you marry someone.

Thats why some relationships run their course. They can no longer accommodate the way each individual has changed. Maybe that’s what has happened here.

But maybe not. She’s being open about what she wants. But I think she’s missed one of key foundations of an open relationship.

Open relationships aren’t built on equality. They aren’t built on everyone having the same “rules” - as you’re experiencing, that simply doesn’t work eg if one of you wants to have same sex relationships and one of doesn’t. Your wife is suggesting something that looks equal but is inequitable.

Open relationships are built on equity, where everyone has their needs fulfilled. If the only way your need for security can be fulfilled is monogamy, then your needs may be incompatible. But maybe your security needs can be fulfilled in other ways?

Have a read (and ask your wife to read) “Thriving in Non Monogamy”. It talks about jealousy, self esteem, equity, security, in all relationships, not just non monogamous ones. It’s the best book about relationships I’ve ever read- the fact it addresses non monogamy is only a part of it.

Any indication she would do it without your approval anyway? If you said no, would she respect that wish?

Send her to skirt club with your blessing. She can tell you all about it when she gets home. Loads of women in Hetero relationships feel like this. They don’t want a girlfriend they just want to explore the physical side.

Out of the men who find it arousing some of them would only be ok with it when they get to watch or be involved.
If they can't watch or be involved many aren't ok with it at all.

There’s no such thing a partially open relationship. Her rules about what she can or won’t do and what you can and can’t do, mean nothing if you want a monogamous relationship and she doesn’t.

How big of your wife saying that you are open to sleep with men knowing you are straight. Your wife seems to want to have it all her own way.

This will only work if you are 100% on board.

I'm bi-sexual and attend the occasional Skirt Club party / get together where most of us are married to men who are happy for us to explore that side of our sexuality.

My DH doesn't get involved and is happy just to hear about it..it actually enhances our sex life BUT the second he's not on board I stop.

It sounds like it's not for you so she either needs to be happy in an exclusive relationship with you or leave.

Open relationships ONLY work when both parties are fully in agreement with it. You cant marry someone on the basis of being monogamous and then expect to change the goal posts halfway through. Thats not fair on the other person because its not what they signed up for and its not what was agreed at the beginning. If she wants an open relationship she should find someone who wants that too- you are in no way obliged to agree to this and its absolutely wrong she is pressuring you about this.

I'm so sorry you are going through this but I personally would leave. She is being completely out of order (not because she wants an open relationship but because she essentially lied to you about it from the beginning).

People change. You don’t agree not to change. How can you know what you’ll want tomorrow? You can’t think of all eventualities before you marry someone

You cant know that but its not on to expect your partner to suddenly be ok with you cheating on them because you found you wanted to sleep with other people. Its fine to change but dont expect or pressure your partner to be ok with those changes if it breaches everything you promised them in the first place.

It’s not cheating if it’s negotiating and from what OP has said she’s opened a conversation, which they need to continue, not given him a fair accompli. In his update OP said his wife said allowing this isn’t a deal breaker so it’s inaccurate to characterise her asking as demanding or unilateral. She asked; they’re talking. What the outcome is and what effect that has remains to be seen.

OP also said they’ve been together for years. All this ‘you knew what you signed up for when you married him’ is nonsense. Ask anyone who has got divorced or had challenges in their relationship - no one actually knows definitively what they’re signing up to when they marry.

@C1N1C - No, I don't think she would go ahead without me being on board with it.

Possibly.

Certainly there is great demand for threesomes as well but genuinely a lot of men just don't see it as cheating (no penis) and like hearing the details afterwards. Threesomes can often end up with the man a bit sidelined anyway ... not quite how the man initially imagined it going.

Op doesn't see it that way and that's the important thing in their relationship, but I can see why she floated the idea, and why she sees him sleeping with women through a different lens. A lot of men would react differently to op.

It may be, for instance, that he knows there is a genuine risk to the marriage - that she is more gay than bi, really. Seen that happen plenty of times as well as the woman hits midlife and becomes more aware of suppressed sexuality.

I totally agree with this, it doesn't sound like she's presenting it as a fait accompli so the pile on really isn't helpful to the op.

Both parties have to be happy, and it's a brave thing to open that conversation rather than go behind your back @OblongCircles so this is a positive. Like a pp said, the outcome of these discussions are unknown yet, but isn't it better that you discuss this rather than alternatives and at least one of you being resentful and unhappy.

It may be that she needs a safe place to talk about her feeling, not necessarily to act on them. The difficulty is finding that safe place, I've been very fortunate to have found that sounding board. There's far too much black and white thinking out there.

My discovery came later in life, I'm not the same person that I was as a teenager when I first got with my husband, I'm not even the same person as I was when we got married. I can understand her desire to explore, and it's good that she doesn't want this with other men, she's telling you through this that you satisfy her but you can't give her what a woman potentially could.

People do change but it sounds like she's wanting to grow with you rather than apart from you.

I've been in this situation myself. Ex said she needed a woman as well, 'for the things a man couldn't give her' apparently. It ended up with that (in her view) being a licence for her to cheat with anyone, male or female.

I don't buy the argument that a bi person needs one of each - you're either in a monogamous relationship or you aren't. It would be a bit like if a man said he needed a blonde and a brunette!

The only way it could work is if you all play together - only meet other women with you involved as well (soft swing could be a good option there). But good luck finding a unicorn!

The only way it could work is if you all play together - only meet other women with you involved as well (soft swing could be a good option there). But good luck finding a unicorn!

Not true.
It depends on individual relationships and what you agree is acceptable to you both.
Skirt Club is female only and most women I've met through SC have been in a relationship with a man but they don't play together.

@CosmoK

I've looked up skirt club this morning, and on the face of it that kind of thing might make me feel a lot more comfortable than if she were to be meeting women outside of a controlled environment. In your experience do the women at skirt club only see each other there, or do they often start to see the people they meet separately outside of the club? In other words can skirt club end up being how people meet, but then they carry on some kind of ongoing relationship afterwards? I'd be a lot less comfortable with that, obviously.

@cheshirebloke you cannot be serious.

Sexuality frames the way you see the world in every single social interaction. Never heard of heteronormativity?

Sexuality goes to the core of your identity and your experience of the world. Hair colour preference doesn’t. FFS.

Bisexuality and questioning monogamy are totally different things. It just so happens that they overlap here.

Has the OPs wife asked for a threesome as a potential solution? If not, let’s stop the lazy assumption that all bisexual women want one, it’s so bloody tiresome.

I go to women only nights at sexclubs, but not skirtclub. There are tons of women who go and just drink/watch ... it's a bit of a girls night out. Then some who interact together. Often it's quite tame. A bit like a saucier version of an Ann Summers party. And then some very risque stuff.
The women often bring a friend along for company but a lot go by themselves. Their male partner often picks them up afterwards. These kind of events are very different to gay clubs/events. The women here aren't looking to meet a partner, so they don't arrange to meet up afterwards for dates or anything like that. Often I do stay in touch via kik but on a friends basis. We might then arrange to meet at a sex club for the next night out but just to have someone to talk to at the bar. It would be quite normal to never speak to or see someone from the club again. It's a very casual, fun based activity with no heart and soul involved.
Honestly I could best describe it as Ann Summers Party for the more hedonistic!

Sorry you've had a bad experience @cheshirebloke but I think you missed the OPs posts where he's very clear he doesn't want a 3some or to watch / join in any kind of swinging.

If you are in a relationship, 3somes and swinging are only great if watching/ being watched/ sharing your partner turns you on... For many couples though it is just an unnecessary layer of complexity that's best avoided.

Meeting other women with him involved is absolutely not the only way it could work.

The only way it would work is for them to find boundaries that they are both comfortable with.

That’s it. That’s the only way. Not the way you think it would work. Not the way I think it would work.

And certainly not by introducing threesomes - which is a completely different kettle of fish altogether.