Loathing the "other woman"

[ImJustMadAboutSaffron]

I'm always surprised when I hear about women who have been cheated on detesting the other woman but not having the same vitriol for the cheating husband. I've heard it from women who took the husband back and one whose husband married the woman (which has to be fair lasted longer and been happier than the original marriage).

What is this about?

@Tron80

Maybe your view has been influenced by the company you keep.

@WidthofaLine No, not at all. You have totally misunderstood my post.

@Tron80

How could you summise from my short sentence that I misunderstood your post.

We all are influened by our experiences and the company we keep, maybe your infuences came from you being separated/divorced and being in the company of others who were not in stable relationships.

@WidthofaLine No, i divorced in the very early 90's, after 2 yrs of marriage- I had my reasons. Everything I refer to here, re friends and their entanglements , came after that.

@Tron80 “The OW I have known over the years are similar in outlook. Not sad or void at all, very successful and independent as I have said before. I suspect these types of casual " relationships" with married men fit in well with them, their lives, their family commitments, their work in fact, I know they do.”

These women might be successful on one level but as decent people they are highly unsuccessful if they think having an affair with a married man with a wife and children just because it ‘fits in well with their lives’ is a ‘casual’ relationship.
Viewing helping a man potentially devastate his family for their own kicks as ‘casual’ makes my blood run cold, frankly. Still, in the future if they have married daughters whose husbands cheat on them and have a helping hand from an independent successful OW of course they’ll think the OW was perfectly entitled to shag their son in law of it fitted into their lives. It would he just what anyone skid just been cheated on would love to hear.
There is a huge void in anyone, man or woman, who could view something as serious as being part of an affair with all its appalling consequences as ‘casual’ or thought it was OK because it was convenient for their situation. It’s a sign of a very sad and empty individual to actually think it’s ok to behave like this as long as it’s casual and convenient? No, I’m not assigning all blame to them, but no healthy person thinks it’s ok to casually connive in deliberately deceiving people for a bit of flattery and fun and convenience. Nobody with good self esteem and compassion would view it as casual and convenient. That’s not a sign of being strong and independent, it’s a sign of being selfish and entitled. Both sad, empty characteristics.

@Thewookiemustgo very true.

There is much wisdom on here. I think it depends on whether she kept on persisting after the big reveal.

Mine write in saying it was big luuurve when all the correspondence pointed out that DH broke off and she could not take it. I had to write in and say that maybe got her it was but for men it was only ever physical and how dumb she did not recognise it. But by big it destroyed her.

As to the truth? Who cares? Did not want her around my kids and one screw up is nothing compared to a lifetime trauma for my kids.

As for him? Who cares?

I have a plan for me and the kids and almost anything else is irrelevant.

Oh just caught up with @TheOtherWomanQ and @Ladybugzrock exchange. What a wonderful chastising of truly despicable behaviour. @TheOtherWomanQ repeatedly fails to address informed sexual consent and cites reasoning that other women have not been nice to her. That makes it ok then. You must either have seriously low self esteem or be a sociopathic narcissist to not recognise your entitlement and see any justification in your actions. I suppose you are waking up to a cold bed being the beginning of the working week and all, and the man likes his wife and steady empathetic life that much better than an emotional cesspit. There is also the possibility that he has not ended it because he knows who he’s dealing with, so whist you may tell yourself that it works for both of you, someone who talks about being backstabbed and hard done by other people hardly comes across as someone with ‘lots if friends’. It’s more someone that’s willing to go along as a side piece to someone else’s actual life so they feel somewhat powerful or pity party ‘wanted’.

What rot. I’m an OW. His wife discovered it last summer, yet bizarrely sanctioned us continuing to work together. Unsurprisingly, the affair picked up again.
I have neither low self esteem, sociopathy or narcissism, and am another professionally successful, financially independent and socially busy and fulfilled person.
I don’t want him to leave, and nor does he. He’s having his cake and eating it, but so am I. This arrangement suits us perfectly.

And such situations are as old as time.

@Saucepots

So the wife sanctioned you both working together but didn't sanction the continuing of the affair.

So you know she is hurting ?
It seems you both have a complete lack of empathy.

But I do agree that some situations are as old as time, in this case cruelty seems to hit the target, two people abusing a woman.
I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy, but you do you.

So @Saucepots you know his wife knows about the affair. I guess as a ‘professionally successful, financially independent and socially busy and fulfilled person.’ you understand that it is most likely she will be going through trauma and will be struggling with mind movies, panic attacks and hypervigilance (amongst many other symptoms). You’ve also read here and know that infidelity is now understood as removing the right from a person to informed sexual consent, many see it as a form of abuse, YET you appear to be proud of the fact that despite his wife’s efforts to fight for her marriage you are continuing to have the affair.

And you don’t think the word entitled applies to you because you don’t want him to leave her, so what, that makes you a better class of affair partner? You are basically saying (like the other two on here) that your need for validation and good feels trumps another woman. This feels like you enjoy the power over her.

And before I lazily get accused of misogyny the only person on this whole thread who has hinted at disliking women has been an affair partner.

Leave Saucepot alone guys. She’s in a relationship with a guy who has failed to leave his wife and she knows that will never happen. She’s got the crumbs. Poor thing.

I don't think @Saucepots thinks they are crumbs, some women enjoy the double dipping aspect, maybe they find it a turn on or maybe it fills some masochistic desires in themselves.

Strange though as apart from the sexual health aspect I think I would end up with ocd with all the showers I'd have to take 😅

Balk.

Some women must have brains that can over ride this on a continual basis, the men are clearly the same, I've always been pretty boring as in the fact exclusivity turns me on, but not everyone's the same.

It would be interesting for someone to actually answer this one, the mechanics of squaring the fact your lover may have come straight from another woman's bed and vagina.
Does it ever give them the ick ?

I can't imagine why @Saucepots would want this man to leave his wife when she knows that even when he's been outed, he can't keep his dick in his pants 😥.

Hopefully his wife has at least stopped having sex with him as she knows her health /consent etc is being compromised and will now only use him for the other purpose he serves - helping her raise any children in a financially stable environment.

I think @Saucepots answers the question posed at the start of this thread perfectly and had she posted first would have saved us the trouble.

Hmm.. in saucepot's case all three know the situation. She's happy with it, he's happy with it, but the wife may not be. I'm not sure that I see it as saucepot's obligation to put the wife's happiness above hers. Why should she? We're all allowed to make choices that prioritise our own well-being, even at the cost to other people's. Isn't that exactly what the wife would be doing by insisting that the 'affair' stop? Why does the wife get final say? Because she's married? She's worth more? I don't really agree that marriage is a prize won by worthy 'good' women, that should be protected at all costs. I think it should be an active, mutually consensual agreement, and if it isn't anymore, then it should be ended. If the husband is breaking their contract terms then they should decide whether to continue with the marriage, or not. But I think the 'other woman's' desire for a relationship that satisfies her wishes and needs is as valid as the wife's.

@Dweetfidilove his wife probably hasn’t stopped having sex with him because according to saucepots the affair was over on discovery but picked up again. I think his wife only sanctioned them working together, not sleeping together. She presumably thinks her sexual health etc being compromised is a thing of the past and has decided to trust her husband and believes whatever twaddle he’s fed her. She more than likely is trying to reconcile with him and financially it might not make sense or not be easy for him to move jobs, so in a spirit of trust she’s conceded he can stay working where he is, whilst he and Saucepots continue to deceive and abuse her.
It never ceases to amaze me that being ‘professionally successful, financially independent, and a socially busy and fulfilled person’ keeps getting trotted out as if it makes this kind of behaviour ok or that it means that on the self-esteem front there can’t possibly any problems.
How can anyone possibly esteem themselves knowing the pain they are deliberately causing to others?
Success in life isn’t measured only by the externals of profession, finance, a big friends list and busy social life. Internal qualities count for more. Compassion, integrity, honesty, empathy. All lacking here. There is no self-love at all in giving yourself permission to hurt others because it suits you. It’s entitled at best and narcissistic at worst. If your fulfilment and self-esteem isn’t at all troubled by devastating other people, if you can genuine shrug it off so casually or excuse it with ‘tale as old as time’ clichés, then it’s no wonder accusations of narcissism and sociopathy crop up.
None of this is ‘rot’, as saucepots calls it, at all, the rot appears from inside when an outwardly successful person sanctions their own abusive behaviour but is still believing the excuses they tell themselves to avoid seeing it. Shiny success outside, rotten within.

@villamariavintrapp unless I’ve read it wrongly, it sounds as if the wife doesn’t know, as saucepots says the affair ‘picked up again’ after his wife ‘bizarrely’ sanctioned them working together. It sounded to me as if the affair had been stopped when the wife found out then restarted.
Saucepots hasn’t said it suits all three of them, just her and him. If everyone is in full knowledge of an arrangement and fine with it, that’s a different thing altogether, but I didn’t get that from what I read.
I don’t think the wife wanting the affair to stop is her prioritising her happiness over anyone else’s, she was under the impression that she was in a mutually agreed monogamous relationship, and the affair is a betrayal of that. If her husband wishes to continue the marriage and his wife wishes to reconcile, then that is his choice, and hers, his wife cannot force him to continue if he doesn’t. It also implies his happiness lies more within his marriage than outside of it.
People in committed relationships meet other people they are attracted to and then they must make a choice. It is sad when a relationship ends but it happens and other people’s happiness naturally gets sacrificed in the process. It’s a different thing to deception and betrayal and as such is generally accepted as part of life and the risk of loving someone.
Affairs are different, though. No honesty or agency. Not making an honest, open choice and denying someone the equal power to choose, by hiding the facts, deliberately allowing them to live in a fake reality, is abusive. It’s not a case of putting someone else’s happiness above your own, it’s whether or not prioritising your own happiness involves deceiving and abusing others.

@Thewookiemustgo I fear you are correct in that only Saucepots and her lover know, and this is why I'd find it impossible to carry on. You just can't trust a liar. Especially not one who was prepared to lie to you for an extended period. I'd never feel safe.

I could only carry on, on the understanding that this is a means to an end, and not a romantic one. And I doubt that would work either. I shudder at the thought he could just pick right up where he left off after his wife gave him another chance 😔.

Sometimes, the OW does detestable things. In my case, she knew full well the difficulties I was having, raising two children with SEND, as my DH had spoken to her in depth about our relationship.

She continued regardless.

It was an EA/sexting, which she seemed to keep initiating, and keep going, as my DH had tried to stop talking to her, and kept his responses to a minimum (I’ve seen some of the messages). He paints the affair as him ‘playing along for the attention, no feelings for her’.

I’m fully aware of my DH’s part in this, and I’m having a hard time getting over it. She is not helping matters, by continuously trying to find ways to be around him (he isn’t in contact with her, she just shows up at his place of work, whenever she likes).

She seems to have no shame, whatsoever. If the roles were reversed, I would have way too much anxiety to even think about behaving this way.

I know my DH is wrong, I do. He has admitted his mistakes, and he has put a lot of work into our reconciliation. There has been no rug-sweeping, he accepts that I’m struggling, and supports me without question. He is open with his phone/SM. He admitted he has a compulsive sex disorder, and sought help. He knows I don’t trust him. He is literally doing everything he can to put this sorry episode behind us.

Meanwhile, the OW has yet to do a disappearing act.

Well we hate the other woman because we are jealous of her!

I understand tbh. I can rationalise that I don't know the woman, no smoke without fire and both to blame. But emotionally I can't help directing all the blame to the OW. It's hard to forgive and not have strong emotions when a stranger, who you don't know, in my case never met can cause you and your family so much pain and distress. It seems so unfair. When you know the man you can see where it happened, their personality, their thought processes. But for someone you don't know your life is essentially turned upside down over what? As far as I can see they don't care, they're not affected. But I am, by their actions :(

A couple of recent comments on here really illustrate the lack of understanding around the psychological damage of affairs.

‘Well we hate the other woman because we are jealous of her’

This harks back to the idea that affairs are just two women fighting over the attention of one special shiny man. The old ‘alls fair and love and war’. The idea that we’re jealous that he ‘chose’ another ‘mate’ over ourselves. This idea only scratches the surface of affair trauma, it’s superficial. Infidelity TRAUMA comes from the repeated gaslighting from the person you love, the feeling of abandonment, the trauma of finding out your right to informed sexual consent has been taken, the lens in which you viewed your world is shattered and your safety has been compromised. The affair partner is a part of the abuse that has happened to you. I know people on mumsnet argue culpability of the affair partner but they are involved. Jealousy may be a small part of the depth of feeling around all of this but it is a very very small part. In my own experience not at all because I wasn’t processing my husbands affair as a fight for a mate with another contender!

And this one.

‘I'm not sure that I see it as saucepot's obligation to put the wife's happiness above hers.’

This is nothing to do with ‘happiness’. It is to do with two peoples need for validation via ego kibbles and cheap thrills trumping the right to personal agency, safety, informed sexual consent, decency and respect. Affairs are by nature abusive, they put betrayed at significant harm. I can’t imagine any other situation where someone’s right to ‘happiness’, trumps another’s right not to be abused.

I really thought the OW was a bitch in my eventual marriage break up for reasons explained below. But, I'd previously had an affair (with a single man) myself as I was an unhappy coward. My marriage was effectively over at that point so I did t really blame him for the affair (but was angry with him for subsequent shitty behaviour) And actually it was a bit of a relief as it gave me an out 😬

The reason she was a bitch? She left her husband for mine a few months before the affair was exposed. We were friends and she used me as a shoulder to cry on as 'she was so upset that her DC were affected by her separation'. So muggins here gave her moral support, literally a shoulder to cry on, tea and sympathy. Then found out that the reason she was leaving her husband was because she had been shagging mine for 6 months. CF doesn't begin to cover it.

Frankly I was relived the marriage was over, and they are still together.

I have the best ever DH now so that's what counts.

I don't why people beleive what goes on in a relationship or a past one by just hearing one side?

Then complain when it happens to them with the person they are hearing it off ie the new partner