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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Loathing the "other woman"

205 replies

ImJustMadAboutSaffron · 22/01/2023 20:02

I'm always surprised when I hear about women who have been cheated on detesting the other woman but not having the same vitriol for the cheating husband. I've heard it from women who took the husband back and one whose husband married the woman (which has to be fair lasted longer and been happier than the original marriage).

What is this about?

OP posts:
MrsSkylerWhite · 24/01/2023 12:11

Needanewnameagain · 22/01/2023 20:13
I detest both of them equally for what they did to me and the children“

Your husband owes your children so much more, though. Surely your anger is better directed at him?

Stunningscreamer · 24/01/2023 15:27

nc1013 · 24/01/2023 10:55

I also probably still struggle with the anger as the OW is now playing at being stepmum to my Ds.

Deliberately use the word "playing" as it's an absolute joke. She tries to turn everything into a competition with me and convince DS she is the cooler more fun one. I purposefully don't engage as it's obvious how insecure she now is with my ExH and it's almost comical how blatant it is. I just feel sorry for DS being put through this and hearing his "SM" bad mouthing his mum (I never retaliate)

I see what you mean, I didn't pick up from your post that they were still together and she was still playing stupid games. That must be phenomenally hard to take. Your poor son.

Aphidsandhoneybees · 24/01/2023 17:00

In my case the OW was a friend of mine. When I found out I felt disgusted and let down by both of them. My friendship with her and my relationship with my xh was over immediately. That was all a long time ago now and I can honestly say I hold no bitterness to either of them. I view them both simply as both pieces of poo I had trodden in and got stuck on the sole of my shoe. I’ve got new shoes now.

nc1013 · 24/01/2023 20:04

Aphidsandhoneybees · 24/01/2023 17:00

In my case the OW was a friend of mine. When I found out I felt disgusted and let down by both of them. My friendship with her and my relationship with my xh was over immediately. That was all a long time ago now and I can honestly say I hold no bitterness to either of them. I view them both simply as both pieces of poo I had trodden in and got stuck on the sole of my shoe. I’ve got new shoes now.

Love this analogy 👏🏼

RLScott · 24/01/2023 23:16

Aphidsandhoneybees · 24/01/2023 17:00

In my case the OW was a friend of mine. When I found out I felt disgusted and let down by both of them. My friendship with her and my relationship with my xh was over immediately. That was all a long time ago now and I can honestly say I hold no bitterness to either of them. I view them both simply as both pieces of poo I had trodden in and got stuck on the sole of my shoe. I’ve got new shoes now.

Good attitude.

Jordan (Katie Price) had two former friends shag her partner. Remember seeing her do an interview with an agony aunt type figure on TV and after saying “I knew she fancied him” she started to cry over the betrayal. She has since gave a typically Jordan comment on the pair of them:

"When Chrissy slut Thomas drove up in lorry to Scotland with him few months ago they stayed night had sex all night." "I hope anyone who still wants to be friends with Jane whore Pountney now realizes she is not loyal who will open her legs to 2 UR husbands." "That's me done for the night! TV time tea and biscuits with my family, have good evening everyone x."

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/lostinshowbiz/2014/jul/31/katie-price-movie-cheating-secrets-kieran-hayler

thethreemuskateers · 24/01/2023 23:24

I hate my ex and the ow equally. She was a close friend who lived next door. My youngest was two and we struggled through lockdown just thought it was a blip after being together 19 years.

I had helped her through her own relationship breakdown, babysat, invited her into my home and they were at it right under my nose.

Youngest son is having counselling, oldest one refuses to have a relationship with his Dad.

My ex has aged about 10 years in the 2 years since this all came out, they now live together her kids hate him, he hates her kids. He can’t keep his penis in his pants and will be off with the next person that floats his ego…

FUEWC · 26/01/2023 09:20

Spotted on another thread that has no doubt come back to life because of this one:

“Where’s my hard hat? Here goes:

When a husband cheats, none of the blame should leave the marriage.”

Tron80 · 16/02/2023 21:58

"@Lenald As someone who was once ‘the other woman’ we are a pathetic bunch to be honest."

Err no, massive generalisation. All the "other women" I have ever known are very strong, well loved, financially independent, raising families independently, happy, successful careers and confident. Speak for yourself but do not generalise.

Moser85 · 17/02/2023 01:37

@Thewookiemustgo
People are very quick to believe peoples lies when they like that person, even if it's not an OW situation. So many people ignore obvious red flags because they like the person and want to continue what they have, even from the very early days, so I don't think it's any different for affair partners!

I have a friend (single) who has just fallen for a guy who is a walking red flag, who is saying all the things to her that we used to laugh at men saying "crazy ex", "won't let him see the kids because she's bitter"....there's a long list and she now repeats all these red flag phrases as if they're facts!

My ex is covered in obvious red flags, but has no problem finding women who ignore them and believe his words instead (which do not match with what these women will be witnessing) Even our daughter has told me she doesn't know how he gets women!

Basically a lot of people will believe what the other person tells them, if they like them, because they want to believe them, even if it should be obvious that what they're saying isn't true!

parlourb · 17/02/2023 05:03

TheOtherWomanQ · 22/01/2023 21:11

@Yeahrightthen I don't tell myself anything. And yes I know I am.

Is there a problem with you finding a single man ? One that doesn't need to sneak around and lie to spend time with you ?

Thewookiemustgo · 17/02/2023 10:21

@Moser85 agreed, that’s basically what I was saying. Everyone has confirmation bias in any situation, plus just wanting stuff to be true because we like them/ are related to them and nobody in my family would be like that etc. Or sometimes have a belief system about someone we like/ care about which takes a little of persuading to the contrary. I think it’s in overdrive in affair situations because everything js heightened. There’s a lot at risk in an affair relationship, plus the excitement of the secrets, sneaking around, etc. Affairs are based on lies and can’t function without them. Both affair partners are obviously walking red flags because of the way they are treating others to pursue their relationship, but choose to ignore this about each other because of the attraction etc and/ or tell themselves more lies to justify what they are doing and turn themselves into the victims of bad relationships etc. I think it’s far easier to believe something we want to believe from anyone. There’s a book called ‘Mistakes Were Made, But Not By Me’ which is fascinating, essentially about how humans can do the most Olympic standard mental gymnastics to make things ‘true’ or ‘right’ in the face of hard evidence to the contrary, even continuing to stick with the original hypothesis and twisting the internal narrative to make it fit. It outlines examples including research done by international negotiators, in which one group was told that a particular proposal was from their enemy. They instantly criticised and rejected it. Unbeknown to them the proposal was actually one of their own, and once they had the mindset that it wasn’t, they didn’t even recognise that it actually favoured their position and was their own proposal. There’s a load more stuff on bigotry and bias of all sorts that we don’t realise makes up part of our belief systems and we refuse to think it applies to us, eg I’m not biased/ have racist tendencies etc. We all want to think that we’re open-minded and unbiased etc which is a bias in itself.
I rely on actions from people, not words. Words can be lovely to hear but are cheap and easy, I need to see them backed up by actions.
People say lots of things to get what they want, or make people think well of them or justify poor behaviour, but what people do is generally what they want, whatever they have to say to themselves or others to justify it. “I’m cheating on my wife/ husband not because I fancy sex in the side or a bit of fantasy in the boredom of daily routine, but because my relationship is dead/ they are crazy/ mean and the only reason I’m still in the relationship is because of my children/ they might harm
themselves if I leave etc but when I met you you are so amazing that I just have to be with you and you are the only light in my dark meaningless existence blah blah” Usually followed later by “You know I will always love you but I can’t do this any more because I’m so noble and dutiful that despite all of the above I must stay with my wife/ husband despite the enormous pain and drudgery this will cause me blah blah”.
In other words “I want to cheat but not appear like a cheat or bad person” Followed by “I actually want to go home and I love my wife/ husband/ family life more than you but don’t want to appear like a cheat/ like I just used you as a crutch in my life”
There’s none so blind as those who choose not to see.

WidthofaLine · 17/02/2023 14:29

@Thewookiemustgo I enjoyed that post.

I suppose the level of acting ability affects the outcomes of many of these relationships, at home and in the ow's home.

All the world's a stage as they say.

WidthofaLine · 17/02/2023 15:14

Tron80 · 16/02/2023 21:58

"@Lenald As someone who was once ‘the other woman’ we are a pathetic bunch to be honest."

Err no, massive generalisation. All the "other women" I have ever known are very strong, well loved, financially independent, raising families independently, happy, successful careers and confident. Speak for yourself but do not generalise.

You forgot to mention provocative 😅

And deleuded in many cases, I always wondered why many ow are willing to insert themselves into the power struggles of someone elses marriage in the belief that it's about love.

In many cases it's the furthest thing from love, independance and self respect, all you are doing is siding with a liar and enabling their own self delusion.

Oh the strength siding with a bully.😂

Thewookiemustgo · 17/02/2023 15:45

@WidthofaLine I find it pathetic and pretty sad that apparently women who are strong and confident, happy and successful etc want to let themselves down so badly as to sleep with a married liar and help him destroy possibly another happy, successful confident woman and her children. Strong women who are happy and confident in themselves shouldn’t need to get their kicks risking hurting others. If I was a successful, strong, happy single woman the last thing I’d lower myself to be is an OW. I’d value myself way more than that and consider sleeping with a married man pathetic.

altmember · 17/02/2023 16:10

I've never seen a thread like that on here. Do you have any links to some?

If someone cheats on you, your relationship was already broken.

Buildingthefuture · 17/02/2023 18:01

@Tron80 really? All the ow/om I’ve known have either had really low self esteem or been awfully selfish and entitled. Very similar infact to the married people I’ve known having affairs. And, whilst some affairs are of course reflective of issues in a marriage, I think a lot are reflective of issues in an individual. If you are desperate for attention or if you feel you deserve more….affairs fill a void in you, at huge detriment to the people you claim to love.

WidthofaLine · 17/02/2023 20:48

If I was a successful, strong, happy single woman the last thing I’d
lower myself to be is an OW. I’d value myself way more than that and
consider sleeping with a married man pathetic.

It's really weird isn't it, how on earth any form of being an ow could make you feel anything but cheap.
I honestly don't get it, the very fact that a man and woman are exclusive in my eyes is the very foundation of increasing self esteem. To be the primary partner in everyway shape or form is the basis of loving yourself.

To start off from a starting point of sharing another person is alien to me and actually quite repulsive.

Mariemalone · 17/02/2023 21:00

The OW for me was my best friend of 28 years, we were so close, almost inseparable. I had a wonderful relationship with her 3 (now 4) year old, and I will never be able to understand how she did what she did to me. She slept with my fiance and had an on/off affair for over 2 years. She was married, I was planning my wedding, with her as my bridesmaid and son as my page boy. I couldn't hate a person more if I tried. As for my ex partner, he was awful for doing what he did to me, but he has lost everything, he has severe mental health issues, BPD & Bipolar, he is in a ton of debt, in a right pickle & now living back at home with his mum. I hate what he did to me, but I find it hard to hate him when he is so poorly. I know he had a choice, and he made the wrong one several times, but I can't help but believe his mental health played a huge part. He said it was just sex, she knew about his struggles, I confided in her being my best friend. Her husband believes she used him and he was an idiot to go along with it. But who knows. She has no remorse, has never tried to reach out to me, never attempted to apologise, she saw me a few weeks ago & smiled at me (like a smirk kind of smile) I could have ripped her face off, but what's the point. She clearly doesn't care what she did as she wouldn't have done it for so long. She is living back with her mum and dad, but they have loads of money and will bail her out, and she is going to get half of everything from her marriage, even though its all his from his hard work. She has won really, as she will live a comfortable life, she didn't want to be with her husband anyway. Sorry for the rant, all just came out!

WidthofaLine · 17/02/2023 21:25

@Mariemalone

What a pair of rats, you are well rid of both of them.

Do you think jealously could have played a part in this, I've seen so many competative friendships whereby one party quite clearly has issues of envy.

Regardless you sound young and I wish you well finding somone with integrity in the future.

Flowers
PopGoesTheProsecco · 17/02/2023 21:34

Mariemalone · 17/02/2023 21:00

The OW for me was my best friend of 28 years, we were so close, almost inseparable. I had a wonderful relationship with her 3 (now 4) year old, and I will never be able to understand how she did what she did to me. She slept with my fiance and had an on/off affair for over 2 years. She was married, I was planning my wedding, with her as my bridesmaid and son as my page boy. I couldn't hate a person more if I tried. As for my ex partner, he was awful for doing what he did to me, but he has lost everything, he has severe mental health issues, BPD & Bipolar, he is in a ton of debt, in a right pickle & now living back at home with his mum. I hate what he did to me, but I find it hard to hate him when he is so poorly. I know he had a choice, and he made the wrong one several times, but I can't help but believe his mental health played a huge part. He said it was just sex, she knew about his struggles, I confided in her being my best friend. Her husband believes she used him and he was an idiot to go along with it. But who knows. She has no remorse, has never tried to reach out to me, never attempted to apologise, she saw me a few weeks ago & smiled at me (like a smirk kind of smile) I could have ripped her face off, but what's the point. She clearly doesn't care what she did as she wouldn't have done it for so long. She is living back with her mum and dad, but they have loads of money and will bail her out, and she is going to get half of everything from her marriage, even though its all his from his hard work. She has won really, as she will live a comfortable life, she didn't want to be with her husband anyway. Sorry for the rant, all just came out!

That’s awful.

My ExH’s other woman apologised profusely to me and they’ve both said how sorry they are.

I truly hope they’re not feeling too bad, as they did me a huge favour. ExH was an abusive man-child and I’m a million times happier now with my DP.

He loves, respects and adores me and still - after nearly 10 years - I get a bit excited when he comes back from work and we can be together (yep that probably makes me a bit of a saddo) 😂

Moser85 · 18/02/2023 03:40

@Thewookiemustgo
Everyone has confirmation bias in any situation, plus just wanting stuff to be true because we like them/ are related to them and nobody in my family would be like that etc.

Absolutely! Did you ever see the posts on here about "new partner told me someone falsely accused him of rape/sexual assault".
The amount of responses on every thread from women who say that their husband/boyfriend/dad/brother/friend was falsely accused is unbelievable.
No one knows a rapist apparently, but so many know men who have been falsely accused even though statistically it's so rare!

‘Mistakes Were Made, But Not By Me’
That book sounds so interesting. I'll give it a read.

Mariemalone · 18/02/2023 11:28

WidthofaLine · 17/02/2023 21:25

@Mariemalone

What a pair of rats, you are well rid of both of them.

Do you think jealously could have played a part in this, I've seen so many competative friendships whereby one party quite clearly has issues of envy.

Regardless you sound young and I wish you well finding somone with integrity in the future.

Flowers

I don't know why she would have been jealous of me, she had it all really. Her now ex husband said she was obsessed with my ex partner. She would change her likes and dislikes in accordance to what he liked. For instance, she loved pop music like I did, and suddenly her fave band was Metallica (my ex's fave band), he was full of tattoos, she didn't have one (nor do I) and she was always saying she wanted a tattoo. Her new favourite drink was Heineken, that was my ex's preference. It was all just weird. The strange this is, my and my ex would almost joke about her and how weird it was, but all that time, he was shagging her!

Mariemalone · 18/02/2023 11:32

PopGoesTheProsecco · 17/02/2023 21:34

That’s awful.

My ExH’s other woman apologised profusely to me and they’ve both said how sorry they are.

I truly hope they’re not feeling too bad, as they did me a huge favour. ExH was an abusive man-child and I’m a million times happier now with my DP.

He loves, respects and adores me and still - after nearly 10 years - I get a bit excited when he comes back from work and we can be together (yep that probably makes me a bit of a saddo) 😂

My ex has apologised many times, he has written letters, tried to contact me in any way he can. I have never responded. I have never asked him why, I literally told him to leave the day I found out and I have only had communication with him for the first 6 weeks because he tried to end his life several times and I was trying to help him. He didn't deserve my help, but I didn't want him to die. Its all been awful, and the whole time, she has just sat back and watched it unfold. She has told people that she broke up with her husband because there was fault on both sides!!! What a joke!!! If only I had the guts to tell all of her friends what she really did.

journeyofinsanity · 18/02/2023 12:12

nationallampoons · 22/01/2023 22:25

I didn't hate her until she started taunting me about it, stalking me in social media and threatened my children with violence until the police were involved and she was convicted.

Now, I wouldn't piss on her if she was on fire. I know my ex has hurt her, she asked me for help and I said no. You reap what you sow

She asked you for help?

Tron80 · 18/02/2023 17:37

"@Buildingthefuture And, whilst some affairs are of course reflective of issues in a marriage, I think a lot are reflective of issues in an individual. If you are desperate for attention or if you feel you deserve more….affairs fill a void in you, at huge detriment to the people you claim to love".

Whilst I hear and respect yours and others points of view re OW, I have to disagree again. Albeit you may be referring to the married men in your post. When I look at the men who have had affairs with my friends, they, the men, are the ones with the voids to fill. Usually unable to leave unhappy marriages , primarily for fear of never seeing their children ( often , not always, used as ammo by bitter spouses as a tool to manipulate). Also, finances ( always used ) or lack of them, keep a married man in a marriage. The married men my friends have had affairs with have fallen into 2 categories over the decades- Men who have the finances to leave immediately while DC are young and men who do not but, then leave when the youngest child reaches 18. This does sound clinical and has appalled me over the yrs. Ultimately, I suspect they ( the men) do not love , that is the point, they are no longer are in love with those they are supposed to be. That is how they can hurt. That is why they cheat.

I had a friend in the mid nineties who had a child with a married man. He was a-rebound for her, a bit of fun. He had 2 very young DC at the time. She ( OW) was financially self sufficient and could afford child alone. She was happy and independent, a good career. He paid generous monies monthly towards the child, hidden from his wife, monthly. My friend did not need this money, "Dad" paid and all respect to him for that. He saw his child weekly for over 18 yrs, maintained a full relationship with his child, a very well loved child. My friend met and married someone else during that time early on. When their ( AP) shared child was 18 ( and his 2 DC's from his marriage had finished uni) he finally told his wife everything. His financial liability to his wife was minimal then, literally division of assets. I have thought of his wife many times and often over the yrs.

Would i have personally behaved like this, no. Do I love my friend, yes. Is she a good person, yes. Has her AP child grown up and been a success in their life ? Yes. Has her AP child had a stable loving upbringing and every opportunity afforded to them by mum ? Yes.

My point is, i appreciate it is very unsavoury and not something I have ever personally been involved in. I am divorced, no infidelity, just unhappy so I left, because I had the personal finances to do so . I personally do want another relationship, to ever share a home or finances again. I really cannot be arsed with the where are you? Where are you going? When will you be home? Who are you texting? Let me see your phone! It's my birthday so I need a big fuss making of me! You cannot go on a friend's hen/stag do! Restrictions I do not want!

The OW I have known over the years are similar in outlook. Not sad or void at all, very successful and independent as I have said before. I suspect these types of casual " relationships" with married men fit in well with them, their lives, their family commitments, their work in fact, I know they do. I only know one OW who married her married man, and that was because there was decades of love and pre marriage relationship there. The others, did not want to be with the MM when the MM were free, too much impingement on their lives. Liked the casual sex, no texting drama each night.

I think it is very easy to cast an OW as some kind of victim. In my experience they are not, not at all. I suspect married women like to view them sch as it absolves their husbands.

Perhaps understanding why marriages HAVE to stay together for monetary reasons and access to children, is the bigger debate here. My DC see their father all the time, no limits. I also have my own money so never asked their father for anything but he paid full maint for both over and above when they were young. Between us, we negotiated calmly , maturely and responsibly and remain on very very good friendly terms to this day, meaning our children still have both full time Mum and Dad.

I suspect OW pose a threat to a married women's status quo. Be it financial or emotional. I guess it is easier to blame and malign an other women, who is both independent and financially free rather , than see why a/their husband would/has strayed.

Perhaps projecting insecurities and blaming others ( OW) is easier than accepting that your marriage is over and you are no position to do anything about it.

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