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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I really need some objective advice re dd

317 replies

stillvicarinatutu · 18/12/2022 21:14

I'm going to give the back story so no drip feed .

My dd is 25 , and I have a ds , 31.

My dh and I married at 19 and I left him when I was 42.

I had done everything at home , ds had meningitis and later dx with autism , I did 8 weeks alone in hospital, all the medical appointments, all the home admin , childcare, if the kids were ill it was my job to sort , I worked part time too. Dh worked ridiculously unsocial hours and I spent every single night of the marriage alone . Sex was shit and he has ED .

I left him at 42 , my ds had left home , my dd had started university. I was attracted to a man I worked with, but I wouldn't have an affair , I left in January. I started seeing someone else in March. By this time I had battled to get a full time job that paid because dh earned a pittance. I was the breadwinner and had been for 4 years.

I have no doubt this affected dd deeply although at the time I wasn't thinking straight - I was menopausal, restless, bored and sick of everything.

She dropped uni a year later and went home to her dad and the marital home. I was renting .

She was and is angry with me . I got pg with the man I was seeing at 44, dd seemed excited, but the baby had a fatal chromosome disorder and I terminated mid term which was really hard . My then partner was shit and no support. We weren't living together. We stayed together a short time and lived together for a while but he was increasingly abusive and I left .

I've lived alone for 3.5 years.
The problem is my relationship with dd. It's broken . We were extremely close - now it's strained.

She complains to her father that I don't do enough to see her .
Yet if I try , she's busy , if I say can I call , she's busy , if I ask to meet up , she's busy .

The guilt I felt from leaving means I did nothing about divorce or finances . Dd says since I left , I shouldn't get anything. Her father agrees. I paid 21 years of a mortgage, and I've paid 50k of debt off - mine and dhs- it's taken me 6 years. We had separate IVA and I paid both . (He couldn't afford it- I could )
This means he has stayed in the marital home .
He is now seeing another woman - fine - he is 56 and so is she , no plans to live together or marry etc .
I've now said it's time to divorce and sort finances . He's blown up at me - I left - I should have nothing . That's how he feels , and how my kids feel.
I've said I will not force a sale or make him homeless.
I'm looking at alternative solutions including me buying a park home on retirement so he can keep the house . As long as I aren't renting after retirement- I'm happy . I am currently renting .

I've become great friends with my neighbour and we do a lot for each other . We are spending Xmas day together, and going halves on dinner . She's goi g to be alone with her dd who is autistic, I'd be alone , her dd has asked if I can be there and since me and her mum get together every week anyway , for food and wine , we go out for the occasional drink, go shopping together, stuff mates do ! It's lovely . Her dad has virtually adopted me too ! It's nice .

Dd and ds are with their dad for Xmas day - so they were coming to me Boxing Day .

I've got their presents here to give them then .
Dd wanted a second Xmas dinner . That would be quite expensive and my lovely neighbour and friend suggested we do a big shop , go halves , and do a lovely Boxing Day buffet and have it at hers .

So I text dd asking what she thought.

Text back is horrible. Basically dd is saying "we wanted to see you since you never bother , I do t want to see your friend she isn't part of my life , so just forget it we will just come for an hour in the afternoon. "

I've text back - it was just a suggestion- no problem- we do t have to do that , we can stick to Xmas dinner here etc .

No reply then a curt reply saying stop texting me, I have a life you know , I'm out with (boyfriends parents ) .

I text back - are you free for a call later ?

Nothing back .

Her Xmas list consisted of expensive ugg slippers , she's buying a house so I got her a kettle and toaster, towels, personalised photo frame and Xmas bauble , stuff for her car , I've
Got her boyfriend a brew dog gift set , something for his car ,

I've got ds a silver key ring and a luxury travel wallet, and I'll be getting him some other bits this week .

He can't take much back to Asia with him where he lives . He doesn't carry luggage .

I live alone, I barely make ends meet . I've 2 more payments on dh iva then it's done , and 9 more on mine . I've not had my hair done in over a year , I've not my car serviced for 4 years, I shop at Aldi, -
And yet - I'm still the villain . I can buy the uggs etc , but when I dared suggest Boxing Day buffet with neighbour you'd think I'd suggested selling dds first born to the devil himself .
Now it appears she isnt even speaking to me.

I do not know how to heal this.
My own relationship with my mother is NC and has been for 25 years. I do t want that for me and dd - yet I cannot win . Everything I say , everything I suggest, is met with anger. I suggested counselling- nope.
Her dad is the bees knees of course .

Neither of the kids checked on me recently when I had pneumonia. Dd said she thought I was making it up. An ambulance was sent and I was on a nebuliser. They wouldn't come look after my dogs so I could go to hospital.

What the fuck do I do now ? I hate this . I'm constantly apologising. I'm constantly trying . I've asked her what she wants .
She seems to hate me .
I tried to speak with ds about the house etc and he went straight back to his dad and told him - then he said he does t want to be involved- fair enough.

But I cannot win . The only thing that would satisfy them all is if I go away , ask for nothing out of the house , give everything away , go quietly, rent for life , spend my pension on rent and then claim benefits (this is dh"s suggestion when I asked how I rent after retirement. )

I haven't done anything. I've asked nothing. And they are acting like this now - if I do press for some equity I dread to think what happens then . They barely tolerate me now .

I do not know what to do.

OP posts:
stillvicarinatutu · 18/12/2022 21:17

Sorry to
Clarify

Married at 19 . Left in 2014 at age 42.

Separated now 8 years.
Kids now aged 31 and 25 .

I'm 51 in 2 months.

OP posts:
17caterpillars1mouse · 18/12/2022 21:24

It seems your damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Do you feel if you don't go for your share in the divorce DD will then come round and can build on your relationship or is she going to remain angry no matter what?

It's hard but for me I think I'd go for my fair share (who wants to rent in retirement when they have a choice) and just keep trying to get back on track with DD. Be consistent, message weekly at the same time to check in, send her any memes you find funny, do birthday, Xmas gifts. Get her birthday cakes, invite her out / round for a tea and cake and just keep trying.

Sausagelove · 18/12/2022 21:29

Stop grovelling for a start. You don’t need to apologise for leaving an unhappy marriage.The finances are absolutely none of her business whatsoever. Don’t discuss this with her again. Get a solicitor and get the finances sorted. Don’t allow yourself to be financially abused.

You can not do anything about your dd. Personally I would leave her to it till she grows up a bit. Those messages are horrible.

Are second Christmas dinners a thing?

Bard6817 · 18/12/2022 21:32

Get the finances sorted, you should get half the equity and the ex can sort himself out. They’ve taken you for a bit of a ride. Get some representation if you can’t deal with it all yourself.

I think your daughter needs a wake up call, given that i’ve taken everything at face value. Spend xmas day with people who want to spend it with you, and tell your daughter to make her own plans for the day as you now have plans, and that things are a bit busy now for a few weeks. It will be hard, but i suspect she is a bit of a narcissist and i honestly don’t know if you will have a good relationship with her going forward, but it will have to be effort on her side if you do.

Im afraid im of the camp, which take no bullsh*t and as far as i can see, they are taking big loads on you.

frazzledasarock · 18/12/2022 21:32

Go for your share of your of the finances. The finances have nothing to do with your daughter. She’s not proposing to pay your bills is she?

also your daughter sounds like a spoilt rude woman, I wouldn’t be pandering to her, she wants an expensive second Christmas meal, she can bring something and you can have a pot luck if a buffet won’t suffice.

m you need to stop racing around after her, next time she is rude to your messages you can tell her to let you know when she’s free. And leave her to it.

you can’t spend your life beating yourself up for leaving a man who took advantage of you. Looks like your daughter learned how to be abusive to you from her father.

JoyBeorge · 18/12/2022 21:34

You walk away I'm afraid sweetness. There's nothing else left but to look out for yourself. Get what you need in settlement to be comfortable and let them get on with it. The daughter I think I'd just stop trying because it's never going to be met with a scrap of respect for you, your son I see so e hope is contact of sorts.

stillvicarinatutu · 18/12/2022 21:34

I wo t be able to take my share because if I did dh would have to sell - I just mentioned about equity release and said can we explore if there are any options that work for us both .

I do keep trying with dd . Texting. Calling . She never talks to me now and barely replies to messages.

Id arranged in sept to meet her for lunch after a dental appointment, but it was cancelled so I asked if we could do a tea time Instead so I could see her longer than her lunch break ( I live an hour away )

Nope . She was angry I didnt travel anyway to see her for 45 mins the leave . I wanted to rearrange but she wouldn't. I have athritis in my knee so driving is hard now .
She's just permanently angry. With me .

OP posts:
Vallmo47 · 18/12/2022 21:35

I feel like this with my MIL to be honest OP. It’s always wise to remember there are two sides to every story and clearly your children have their reasons. I’m sure your daughter isn’t flawless either and would do well to remember she shouldn’t side with one parent over the other, which clearly has happened here. Having said that, it wouldn’t be this strained without cause so I hesitate to judge at all. What would her version of events sound like? She might feel you deserted them, split up the marriage for a man who treated you awfully. Did you ever choose the new relationship over your kids?
I must admit I wouldn’t be overly impressed if I suggested meeting up with my MIL and she said I could pop over her friends- regardless of circumstances. I’d much rather contribute financially to the meal at yours, bring food and/or help you prepare it. Yes it sounds like you can’t win with your daughter and maybe she feels she’s never your priority. I don’t know, I just know there’s always more to it than meets the eye.
Hope time will help bring you guys together- for what it’s worth I’ve had the most massive fall outs with my family and over time (and hard work from both sides), we’ve managed to put the water underneath the bridge and move on- closer.
Good luck

Bigjigwig · 18/12/2022 21:35

@stillvicarinatutu I think you are giving your daughter and ex far too much power. They have cast you as a villain and by accepting this behaviour you are fuelling the fire. It’s as though you agree you should be treated this way so they will keep doing it. You left a marriage, when your kids were grown up. You should not be punished for this. And certainly not all these years later. Your ex is taking the piss saying you shouldn’t get anything out the house. You need to take your fair share. And if it comes to it yes force a sale!!!!! I also think you need to make it clear to your daughter you love her, you want to build your relationship but you will not tolerate how she treats you. They didn’t even check up on you when you had pneumonia?? You need to stop grovelling and rolling over otherwise this mindset they have will just continue.

JoyBeorge · 18/12/2022 21:36

You can't be scratching about while they live in comfort off what is rightfully yours. That needs to be addressed once and for all. No matter what outcome you aren't going to please other people once you go for you fair share for all the work you put in. I have to say your daughter's attitude stinks but I see hope with your son.

frazzledasarock · 18/12/2022 21:37

whats wrong with selling the house? You both have housing needs. Your ex can organise equity release or a remortgage or whatever. You need your share of the finances so you have a roof over your head.

you’ll both have the same presumably.

RandomMess · 18/12/2022 21:38

Sorry but tough your husband will have to sell up, he doesn't need a "family home" you both need to be accommodated as single adults.

Bigjigwig · 18/12/2022 21:40

@stillvicarinatutu It really does sound like you have been taken advantage of here. Your ex should have given you your share of the equity in that house years ago.

stillvicarinatutu · 18/12/2022 21:41

val
I think that's exactly how she feels but we can't talk about it , it's just this simmering resentment all the time without saying anything to me other than " can you pay for xxx"
And I do it because I feel shit .

OP posts:
JoyBeorge · 18/12/2022 21:41

So what if your husband has to sell? Is he not capable of living in a smaller property like you? I know you won't see it right now but you are giving far too much power away to your own detriment. Hopefully you'll realise just how shitty they are treating you and not care so much if he has to sell. We're talking about people who wouldn't look after your dogs so you could go in hospital when you had pneumonia. You understand where that puts their feelings toward you, right? And you are worried you might hurt their feelings? The balance is all wrong here. I pray you'll value your own entitlement more before long my lovely x

AreOttersJustWetCats · 18/12/2022 21:42

Your ex needs to sell up. Tough - that's what happens in a divorce.

MushMonster · 18/12/2022 21:43

Is the home your husband lives in in both names?
I think you should have sorted the finances at the time you left, having a divorce then. But now, it sounds quite difficult. I cannot understand why you are paying his debt?
Regarding your children, finances should not come into your relationship. It is for you and their father to sort it fairly, on your own.
You need to make a proper try of seeing your DD. I think her comment of not wanting to spend time with a stranger, to her, makes sense. Boxing Day was your family time.
I bet you she feels like she is not one of your priorities and that is the source of the issues.

Exasperatednow · 18/12/2022 21:50

You need to divorce. You need to sort out the finances and untangle your life with your ex h. Your ds is an adult and you can't force a relationship. She may realise that things aren't as black and white as they appear. Her Dad has had the easy version of taking no responsibility. Stop paying for him. Stop chasing her Stop feeling guilty. Get on with your life. If she chooses to be part of it, that's up to her.

Exasperatednow · 18/12/2022 21:51

And your ex dh needs to sell the house. He is not your responsibility.

BabyYoZenZen · 18/12/2022 21:53

I hear you on how difficult this situation is for you but I can also see how DD can easily misunderstand some of your signals. I reckon not having a full Xmas dinner again on boxing day wouldn't have been the issue at all- it's having your neighbour there too which to your DD will have felt like you didn't really prioritise the time with just her (tbf I can understand that). The not driving to see her for 45 min lunch is understandable given your arthritis but if the arthritis problem perhaps wasn't quite on your DD's radar it may well have looked to her as if you'd just said 'ah it's not worth it for me for just 45min'. Tbf if you're really concerned about your relationship with DD and don't want it to be this strained, I would have also thought you'd make the meet-up a priority even if it could just be for 45 min.

Would you maybe send her a letter or long message saying you can see how some of this will have felt to her as if she wasn't a priority, but that this isn't at all how you feel or meant it- not in a defensive accusatory tone, but stressing your fondness for her and just apologising? Saying you really do want to bother and she's important to you and what would work best for her in terms of being in touch?

stillvicarinatutu · 18/12/2022 21:56

mush

Fair comment but I've said it's fine - we can just do our own thing as originally planned- it was just a suggestion and would have helped us both (neighbour and I) financing two dinners.

I said I'd ask dd - I asked - but the reaction seemed ott. A simple no thanks would have been fine - not the stroppy texts saying dont bother we'll just come for an hour . I've had no reply since .

I've paid his debt because I felt guilty and shit about it all . And if he has to sell neither of us would get a new mortgage and we're both too old anyway . We wanted the house to go to the kids - neither of us had parents or any inheritance and it was hard .

OP posts:
OhTinyBear · 18/12/2022 22:00

You’re paying your ex’s IVA and you’re letting your ex live in a house you jointly own? OP you must know deep down that you actually do deserve better than this? If everyone has decided you’re the bad guy despite you bending over backwards to keep everyone else comfortable, you might as well stop bending over backwards. Please stand yourself up straight, force the sale of the house, find a decent solicitor to help you through it.

And in the meantime, please work on finding a therapist who offers sliding-scale fees. You ideally need to work through the feelings of guilt you have that seem to be causing you to let yourself be walked all over. Leaving a crap marriage isn’t actually something to be ashamed of, even if you didn’t know how to leave well; and it’s quite awful that your dd especially has made you so ashamed. You might not have acted back then as well as you could have done - again, something to speak to a therapist about - but life is complex, we’re all flawed, and you shouldn’t be impoverished as a result of your guilt about historical actions, when you don’t technically have to be.

I usually have a tendency to side with daughters over mothers because of my own terrible family dynamics (my mum sadly is genuinely dreadful!) - but I think your dd sounds quite petulant not being up for a joint festive meal with your friend. I think it sounds like a pretty nice way to spend a day!

You sound decent, OP. You acknowledge things could have been better, and it sounds like you’d go about your historical life choices differently if you were making those decisions now. That’s reflection and growth. Doing the things you need to do next will be hard. But at this stage you have not much at all to lose, and plenty to gain. Good luck.

Margo34 · 18/12/2022 22:01

Settle your divorce and finances first, then tackle the relationship with your daughter.

Why do you feel guilty? You had your reasons for leaving, were they not enough at the time?

HundredMilesAnHour · 18/12/2022 22:01

You need to force the house sale and get divorced. You're entitled to your share. Your DH will have to rent just like you're doing. Stop punishing yourself. You suffering and struggling won't change how your DD or DH behaves or what they think about you. You're being a complete doormat. Start valuing yourself rather than self-flagellating.

It was a mistake to expect your DD to spent time with your neighbour on Boxing Day. That must have felt very hurtful for her. Why would she want to spend what little family time you get together with a stranger?! That was a bit tone deaf of you I'm afraid.

stillvicarinatutu · 18/12/2022 22:08

My neighbour is lovely and really sociable and she thought it would be fun - it was just a suggestion so the stroppy messages really didn't seem called for .

Dd said her friends are lovely but she doesn't invite me to their houses. And that's fine - but the undertones weren't pleasant.

OP posts:
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