I really need some objective advice re dd

[stillvicarinatutu]

I'm going to give the back story so no drip feed .

My dd is 25 , and I have a ds , 31.

My dh and I married at 19 and I left him when I was 42.

I had done everything at home , ds had meningitis and later dx with autism , I did 8 weeks alone in hospital, all the medical appointments, all the home admin , childcare, if the kids were ill it was my job to sort , I worked part time too. Dh worked ridiculously unsocial hours and I spent every single night of the marriage alone . Sex was shit and he has ED .

I left him at 42 , my ds had left home , my dd had started university. I was attracted to a man I worked with, but I wouldn't have an affair , I left in January. I started seeing someone else in March. By this time I had battled to get a full time job that paid because dh earned a pittance. I was the breadwinner and had been for 4 years.

I have no doubt this affected dd deeply although at the time I wasn't thinking straight - I was menopausal, restless, bored and sick of everything.

She dropped uni a year later and went home to her dad and the marital home. I was renting .

She was and is angry with me . I got pg with the man I was seeing at 44, dd seemed excited, but the baby had a fatal chromosome disorder and I terminated mid term which was really hard . My then partner was shit and no support. We weren't living together. We stayed together a short time and lived together for a while but he was increasingly abusive and I left .

I've lived alone for 3.5 years.
The problem is my relationship with dd. It's broken . We were extremely close - now it's strained.

She complains to her father that I don't do enough to see her .
Yet if I try , she's busy , if I say can I call , she's busy , if I ask to meet up , she's busy .

The guilt I felt from leaving means I did nothing about divorce or finances . Dd says since I left , I shouldn't get anything. Her father agrees. I paid 21 years of a mortgage, and I've paid 50k of debt off - mine and dhs- it's taken me 6 years. We had separate IVA and I paid both . (He couldn't afford it- I could )
This means he has stayed in the marital home .
He is now seeing another woman - fine - he is 56 and so is she , no plans to live together or marry etc .
I've now said it's time to divorce and sort finances . He's blown up at me - I left - I should have nothing . That's how he feels , and how my kids feel.
I've said I will not force a sale or make him homeless.
I'm looking at alternative solutions including me buying a park home on retirement so he can keep the house . As long as I aren't renting after retirement- I'm happy . I am currently renting .

I've become great friends with my neighbour and we do a lot for each other . We are spending Xmas day together, and going halves on dinner . She's goi g to be alone with her dd who is autistic, I'd be alone , her dd has asked if I can be there and since me and her mum get together every week anyway , for food and wine , we go out for the occasional drink, go shopping together, stuff mates do ! It's lovely . Her dad has virtually adopted me too ! It's nice .

Dd and ds are with their dad for Xmas day - so they were coming to me Boxing Day .

I've got their presents here to give them then .
Dd wanted a second Xmas dinner . That would be quite expensive and my lovely neighbour and friend suggested we do a big shop , go halves , and do a lovely Boxing Day buffet and have it at hers .

So I text dd asking what she thought.

Text back is horrible. Basically dd is saying "we wanted to see you since you never bother , I do t want to see your friend she isn't part of my life , so just forget it we will just come for an hour in the afternoon. "

I've text back - it was just a suggestion- no problem- we do t have to do that , we can stick to Xmas dinner here etc .

No reply then a curt reply saying stop texting me, I have a life you know , I'm out with (boyfriends parents ) .

I text back - are you free for a call later ?

Nothing back .

Her Xmas list consisted of expensive ugg slippers , she's buying a house so I got her a kettle and toaster, towels, personalised photo frame and Xmas bauble , stuff for her car , I've
Got her boyfriend a brew dog gift set , something for his car ,

I've got ds a silver key ring and a luxury travel wallet, and I'll be getting him some other bits this week .

He can't take much back to Asia with him where he lives . He doesn't carry luggage .

I live alone, I barely make ends meet . I've 2 more payments on dh iva then it's done , and 9 more on mine . I've not had my hair done in over a year , I've not my car serviced for 4 years, I shop at Aldi, -
And yet - I'm still the villain . I can buy the uggs etc , but when I dared suggest Boxing Day buffet with neighbour you'd think I'd suggested selling dds first born to the devil himself .
Now it appears she isnt even speaking to me.

I do not know how to heal this.
My own relationship with my mother is NC and has been for 25 years. I do t want that for me and dd - yet I cannot win . Everything I say , everything I suggest, is met with anger. I suggested counselling- nope.
Her dad is the bees knees of course .

Neither of the kids checked on me recently when I had pneumonia. Dd said she thought I was making it up. An ambulance was sent and I was on a nebuliser. They wouldn't come look after my dogs so I could go to hospital.

What the fuck do I do now ? I hate this . I'm constantly apologising. I'm constantly trying . I've asked her what she wants .
She seems to hate me .
I tried to speak with ds about the house etc and he went straight back to his dad and told him - then he said he does t want to be involved- fair enough.

But I cannot win . The only thing that would satisfy them all is if I go away , ask for nothing out of the house , give everything away , go quietly, rent for life , spend my pension on rent and then claim benefits (this is dh"s suggestion when I asked how I rent after retirement. )

I haven't done anything. I've asked nothing. And they are acting like this now - if I do press for some equity I dread to think what happens then . They barely tolerate me now .

I do not know what to do.

Look after yourself financially. Your daughter will have to grow up. Sounds like you’ve done what you needed to do to be free. Your ex will have to sort himself out. You’ve done nothing wrong ending your marriage

You need specialist advice re your police pension, the lump sum and the house. Your H will already have his beady eyes on 50% of pension and lump sum and as things stand he is likely to get it.

Your bargaining point maybe he gets the house and you keep your whole pension. You can't afford not to take legal advice, there are solicitors who specialise in police pension regulations.

Have you ever considered counselling for yourself? There are free resources available to people in your occupation. It might help you with the DD situation. Good luck

OP, re your daughter - she's treating you like shit, even when you bend over backwards to give her things and accommodate her.
Stop doing that.
That relationship needs to be put on the back burner while you sort out your finances.
You need to divorce and get your fair share.
You only have a limited number of years left before you retire, assuming good health.
The 50s is when health problems started appearing for me and some of my friends and you need to get your future sorted ASAP.
Your ex is not your problem.
He won't be homeless, he'll end up living with another woman, most of them do.
Look after yourself first PLEASE.

You've built this narrative that because you left, you're the bad guy and don't deserve happiness, your share of the assets, anything good in life. It's just not true. Your DH was completely awful, of course you should have left. And once you've left, you're entitled to be happy and have BFs etc.

What's stopping DH getting a small mortgage to go with his 50% or moving in with his GF? Don't leave yourself in a precarious position for the sake of that bastard.

And your DD. You don't have a good relationship now, she treats you badly, only looks to you for money. If you start standing up for yourself, explaining your side of the story, and putting in boundaries, you might find she respects you more. She'll likely distance herself for a while, but be consistent, only give what you can, stop apologising. See what happens.

OP I grew up with a lot of friends who had similar mothers to you. I can't quite describe it, it's a sort of 'resilient, fighter, pragmatic' sort of energy, because you've had to basically. Three of my friends mums had relationships and subsequent children when they were quite young with sort of 'loveable loser' types. Due to this, they sort of had to be both mother and father and a lot became resentful (rightfully so) and left the marriage. Some had affairs, as they saw men with some energy and get go as desirable compared to the coach potato's at home!
They all had terrible relationships with their mothers during their teens/ early twenties. I think young women (when they are at their most vulnerable and sensitive to criticism) can't handle that alpha female, stoic figure when they feel so far from that stage. They are told by popular media that mums are fat, unsexy, domestic, willing in their servitude! And you... well your just not that. You have a career, you do the driving, you manage the finances. You might have a love life. They can't handle it. I think that's why these women very much came back to their mothers in their early thirties when they had seen enough of mens shit to realise why their mums had to become as tough as they were. Many of them have great relationships with their mums now they are mothers themselves. So there's hope! But remember you don't always have to fix things for her, listen, be that soft, safe person as well as the dynamic, go getter.

As for the divorce from her perspective. It is a kind of trauma. Your daughter left her stable home to find her feet in the world. She could step into a new and unknown world because she had a solid base at home. Then that base fell apart. So she was left with the unstable new world and no stability to return back to. That is not your fault, but I think PP have minimised what that was like for her. 'Just your parents getting divorced' well that's not how it feels. Everyone planning to go home for Christmas whilst you don't know where home is. Everyone planning nights out when you just spoke to your dad who sounded like he'd been crying. The worry, the scariness of all the changes. I would say it is harder to be a child of divorce when you're 16 rather than 6.
You can't change this now and my god it sounds like you've spent long enough feeling guilty. But you do need a way to move on. She needs to see things from your POV and you need to see things from hers. Family therapy? Mediation? As suggested up thread. Also her own parents getting on will help her feel more grounded. This might be possible after the finances are sorted as you both then know where you stand and also are equal.

You need to make a life for yourself so you're happy inside.

You've not really done that.

You haven't always made good decisions but that can change from today. That is past. Change it going forward.

First and foremost stop paying for his IVA. Tell him today. You're not paying it any more.

And if dd and DS don't like that and rant at you well they're not involved and it's nothing to do with you and they're flying monkeys and grey rock.

See a solicitor and start the ball rolling re selling the house and getting divorced. And take your share. And again if DS and DD start running their mouths about it - grey rock. It's not their business.

Stop looking to external people for happiness. You won't find it there. You need to be happy with you. And you're clearly not.

And you need to start making sensible decisions. At every level. As an example I have a dog. I have a dog Walker. That dog Walker will take my dog if I'm suddenly unwell - they have a key and can access the house if needs be. My kids would also take the dog but in the moment of an emergency I've plans in place. You need to do this. Think about what happens if. And get plans in place.

@stillvicarinatutu I mean this with absolute kindness.......
When you were so ill with pneumonia that you couldn't care for the dogs properly where were the daughter and husband that you have completely martyred yourself for?
He was comfortably sat in your home and wouldn't even spare an hour to make sure the dogs were okay let alone you!
Your (bratty) daughter accused you of faking your illness without even checking on you and yet you won't fight a little to make your life more comfortable for fear of upsetting this grown ass woman with no empathy towards her very ill mother?
Step one- order copy of marriage certificate.
Step two- straight to solicitors on the 04th Jan to initiate divorce.
Step three- find out what he is entitled to from your pension, you can't plan your future without financial details, it might be that he sacrifices some of the house to you for a bit more of your pension...you need to know what is best for you!
None of these people give a shit about your best interests so you need to* *stop focusing on them and make sure your retirement will be a comfortable one!

I didn’t read all of your OP. Everyone deserves to be happy. She was an adult when you left.

your ex and your daughter want you to wear a hair shirt for the rest of your life. They won’t forgive you, no matter what you do. Just forgive yourself. Start there.

…oh, and then show yourself the respect you deserve. Then your daughter might follow.

For your daughter, I think she may come round in time. I think there are two things you need to do. First, have the talk with her about why you left for OM when she was 17. The bare facts do not reflect well on you, so she needs the context of how unhappy and alone you felt at the time.

Secondly, try and see things from your DDs point of view. On your talking about everything you did for DS, it has me a bit concerned because you were a SAHM and so going to doctors appts and so on is really the bare minimum? Yes you spotted the meningitis when your DH didn’t, but that’s luck more than anything and not proof you care more than DH does for the DC. Too, everytime you write about how good a mother you were, it’s a story about your DS even though this thread is about your DD. It may be that your DD did end up sidelined and so her resentment could date to prior to you leaving when she was 17? It’s something to explore. And would explain her instant negative reactions every time you do demote her in priority- you’d drive an hour to see the dentist, but not her? You want Boxing Day with her, but then suggest to actually have it with your friend? Your DD feels abandoned in some way and so every misjudgement you make that knocks her down a peg must be adding to that feeling of abandonment. I agree with the pp that you cannot buy love, so the presents don’t really matter.

BUT I think your #1 priority should be your health. The above can be done on the side. You really need to get mental health input into your depression. I have been where you are and 100mg Sertraline isn’t going to cut the mustard! You need counselling. You need a psychiatrist to work with you to find the right cocktail that actually works to keep you out of bed all day and using wine & sleep as an escape from reality. Do this first. In fact, call 111 and tell them your plan b. If you get a crisis team, that will speed things up. You are in a cycle of self-hatred and martyrdom- you need to break away from that.

Finally, I agree stop paying your DHs IVA. Just stop. He can handle the last two payments, you still have nine on your IVA. Take the money and use it towards a solicitor to get the divorce rolling. You cannot give away your half of the marital assets.

But first, go and get medical care. You will give up on the divorce if you don’t tackle your depression as well.

@Onnabugeisha I second this re: mental health care. You need an appointment asap.

Your DD doesn't think she's a priority for you. This is the issue. Make yourself available for her, I mean put time aside, not 'shall we do xyz' more like 'I'm totally here for you & no distractions'. You need to put in the work before you can get that relationship balance.
I suspect that your own estrangement with your DM might need to be considered here too? Might this be underlying your feelings about this relationship?
I talk from experience - you don't want to repeat patterns. I think it's going to be difficult but worth making it work with your DD.

Thank you. Divorce is no easy thing to do and deeply impacts mental health. The OP won’t be able to go through with doing it (which she must do) if she doesn’t first get mental health care as she is already in a dark place and very low mentally. I feel like she has put herself in 8yrs of purgatory out of misplaced guilt. It needs to end so she can move on and enjoy life.

I dunno op, she's 25. I think perhaps you need to stop pandering to her so much. Treat her like you're equals. Hold yourself in higher esteem.

For example it sounds like you message her more than she replies. I wonder if on some level you're almost pleading with her and she's interpreting it as pathetic. So hold yourself in higher esteem. Invite her to meet up regularly, keep an open door, she's always welcome, it would be lovely to see you, when are you free?

You don't need her forgiveness for anything in the past and you're probably not going to get it. Focus instead on a new and more equal relationship as adults.

Most children want to respect their parents. But for that to happen you need to respect yourself. Their father had choices. Choices have consequences. Yours and his.

Everything is sold and split. Let your lawyer sort it out from the facts you give them. Don't interfere as you are your own worst enemy.

To protect her house equity from being used to fund the debt presumably.

Does your DD understand what you went through? Could you sit her down and say, hypothetical situation, outline all you did re childcare, DH working away, alone every night, working full time. Ask her what advice she'd give that woman. Stress that both partners were good people but in a stressful situation. No doubt she'd say she'd advise a friend in that situation to leave. Then you can tell her what you went through, in a more neutral way. As she's clearly built herself up as the victim in all this.

I don't think discussing the whys and wherefores of the Divorce will be helpful at this stage for vicar.

Sorry but I know just from on here that the man she left her husband for had a partner. A long term one. He wasn't married, but he did have a partner.

Her daughter is very angry about that. And she was 19. Everything is black and white when you're 19

And given that vicar doesn't want to address that for whatever reason, and wants to paint it as she didn't have an affair herself, trying to talk to her daughter about it is going to go down like a nuclear bomb.

And I mean discussing with her daughter.

Build the relationship first - small steps - and then discuss it.

And that means investing time and effort, not money. It means understanding the recognising that she and DS are the priority at Christmas - not the neighbour and her daughter and her dad who has adopted vicar. So less money in presents (they're adults they can buy their own stuff, they only need a minder present) and money for the Christmas dinner (Iceland offer £15 for eg) and the time and effort to spend the day with them.

What I’m going to say is going to sound harsh but I think I can see it from your dds side. When she went to university you left her. You readily admit you were the main parent and did “everything” and then the minute she went to university you left, leaving her with her useless dad to come home to. Why did you move out and not make your dh move out as you were the main parent and seemed to have the closest relationship with the dc at that point? Your dd probably felt completely abandoned and unsettled - my dd is 19 and in her second year of university and it’s such a huge time for them, they’re still children / very young adults when they leave and they need a lot of support. I’m not saying you should have stayed in an unhappy marriage but I think waiting till she started university and then leaving was huge mistake.

I think her leaving university probably has a lot to do with this and I would imagine she feels a lot of resentment towards you for that.

And then it almost feels like you want her to slot in around your plans now. You need to make her feel like she is your priority - at 25 she is still very much “stuck” in that 18/21 year stage of life that you left her at. Hence the silent treatment/ sulky teen behaviour.

Being really honest I can’t believe you suggested going to your neighbours for Boxing Day! Even for a buffet! Your dd wants to see you - not your neighbour! She wants to feel she’s your world. That she’s important to you: it feels that again you want her to slot in with what suits you.

Everyone is saying dd is 25 and is being too harsh / she’s an adult etc - well yes but she is emotionally stuck at the time the op left. That’s whats happened.

I also think you need to be a bit careful with saying things like the neighbour and her dad really like you/ second family type stuff. My Mum said and did similar things and it hurt.

I think PP has a great point about DD being emotionally stuck - she is behaving like a child. Perhaps some family therapy will help you both see each others perspective.

As to the house you must get your share. Why should you struggle just because you left the marriage. You must have been pretty miserable to do so and he didnt make things easier for you back then did he? It will be an asset in divorce are you really going to give it all to him and give yourself an unknown future and insecurity because he made your life a misery and you had to leave? You HAVE to think of yourself.

im sure relationship with DD will repair in time with some counselling

I don't disagree with @Afterfire

But, I still think at 25 it's up to your Dd where she goes from here.

When I was 12 I think, my mum had an affair with my best friends dad. When I was 18 I went off to uni, my dad moved out, 2 weeks later my friends dad moved in. As an adult, I have a good relationship with my mum and my dad. Of course there were bumps to get there. My friend on the other hand is almost non communications with her dad. It's a choice and the dd needs to put effort in too.

I think the pp who suggested MH support first and foremost has given the best advice. Rebuild your relationship with yourself first, part of which would be settling the divorce and finances to enable moving on beyond previous choices, before expecting others like your DD to do the same relationship rebuilding with you. Don't pay by the exDHs IVA, his responsibility. Your responsibility in the first instance is to yourself.

I would say that guilt is making you pay your ex husbands IVA, guilt is making you not get what is yours from the house. You need to deal with your guilt first- if you could find a therapist they could help you with this.

Could you have a go at writing your post again, but from your daughters point of view? Even the bits that you think are unreasonable of her? Try to think how she perceives what happened, rather than what your intentions were.