Who is in the wrong? Fight in front of DC

[SmashedPots]

I'm going to describe this as factually as possible and want honest opinions

DC (3) still has tantrums. Every morning it's hard to get him ready. He was playing with playdoh and he was half dressed. Before he put his jumper on he said "more playdoh mummy". I had got some out and it was on the side. He did already have some in his hands.

DH comes downstairs to take DC to school. DH says "no more playdoh. We are going now"

Tantrum starts. It's a bad one. DC shouting a lot "more playdoh etc etc"

I say under my breath to DH "he could have just had that playdoh you know. I did get it out for him"

DH shouts "fuck you. Fuck off undermining me like always"

DC stops tantrum as soon as DH shouts at me and starts shouting at DH "stop fighting"

I say "calm down DH. Stop shouting in front of DC"

He keeps shouting

I say "you're less in control of your emotions that DS"

DH grabs the pot of play-doh (which he had put on a high shelf" and throws it really hard at the floor right in front of DS.

I tell DH to get out.

DH shouts "you fucking made this happen. Undermining me as fucking usual. This is your fault."

I haven't raised my voice once but DH tells me I've got that "look on my face"

My poor baby boy.

It lasted 5 mins in total. They have now left and I have to get ready for work with the baby.

Was I undermining? Is this abusive? I can't think straight these days.

Well said.

We assume others want to work things out and be reasonable because we do.

Men like him dont want to.
They know being nasty and difficult works. They get their way on everything and that's all that matters.

What’s the issue with play doh??? I’d have it out before breakfast, after breakfast, in the car, any time, any place if it was keeping DC happy. And strangely enough - it doesn’t irreparably damage anything it comes into contact with.

Distractions, tele - I’d just go with what works when getting out the house in the mornings.

DS has possible ASD - widget symbols, now and next board, PECS work brilliantly.

Your DH overreacted and I would say an absolute no to swearing and throwing as DC will copy.

You need to find a time to discuss ‘what we do in the mornings’ calmly/who is handling the routine - and have a pre discussed plan.

OP I really feel for you.

Your husband's OTT behaviour sounds deranged, and I know it's difficult but while you are still in the house just try and ignore him as much as possible.

He wants your reaction. He wants you to feel bad about everything and to put up and shut up. He wants to control this in the way he always has done.

It sounds as though your eyes have been well and truly opened now to his nastiness and narcissistic behaviour.

Your children are young enough not to be too affected by separating. You do it all anyway so it's not as though you will be missing out on his help around the place.

If you stay however, they are very likely to be affected by their fathers behaviour. Treading on eggshells, not wanting to set him off, desperate for his approval which he will grant a few crumbs of now and again just to keep them in line and wanting more. They will see your behaviour - trying to keep the peace, keep things dampened down, trying to pacify - as being the norm.

You're a great mum as evidenced by everything you've said and you want the best for them. Don't make them grow up in this toxicity.

You can't reason with him, look what happens when you try.

Your only option is to plan your exit and make a better life for you and your children.

Please keep posting on here for support, we will be here for you.

He undermined her. He came barging into a situation about which he knew nothing, and which the OP had under control.

Oh dear. bad to worse. both kids napping. DH says 'can we talk?'

He starts the conversation asking me to sit down and then says "let's start with some ground rules - this is not debate society - you know you are smart and therefore try to be right the whole time and you talk fast, but you will not do it this time so just shut up" I mean...I really hope I don't talk like that but maybe I do

He then tells me he's heartbroken by the message I wrote back to his apology. Basically the one saying "I'm so sorry etc I was crying at work" and I said that we needed to prioritise our son etc

he said I was mean, nasty, uncaring, that he shared him crying at work to vulnerable and like "most women, you say you want vulnerability, but then you throw it back in our faces"

He also said "ever since you started that new job, you've got worse. thinking you're the big I am. People listen to you at work and then you come home nad think you can do that same to me"

Etc etc.

He also said "remember to tell your little divorce group that you will join that you left your husband because he said fuck a few times and threw some play-doh"

We are getting further and further from ever sorting this out

He really is trying to kick you back into your corner - dictating to you, minimising what he did, threatening you with 'what people will think'.

Seriously, time to start lining up those ducks. This can't be saved.

He’s so horrible to you and he sounds like a real misogynist as well. Can you go back to your mums or somewhere else if that’s not possible and take DC with you? Do you have your own money in a bank account he can’t access?

Oh dear. So when he says 'can we talk?', he means he wants to talk and you to sit down and listen.

Honestly I don't think you can sort it out. Unless he realises he has anger issues, you won't be able to. And your son will not get easier as he gets older.

Keep talking to us.

Do you feel you and your children are in danger?

e are getting further and further from ever sorting this out

Do you even want to sort it out? He has shown you who he is.

“… but you will not do it this time so just shut up"
You already know this but this is not how a conversation works, where you shut up and he talks at you.

My mum has also said to me that when people tell you who they are, listen. Please listen to him very carefully, hear everything he is saying and run a mile.

Am I correct in thinking you’re the main breadwinner? Can you suggest a trial separation where he leaves the home?

Hope your DS is feeling better.

Your DH is not as skilled a communicator as you, presumably a less senior job and feels (maybe correctly) that he is less intelligent than you.
He feels 'unsafe' and 'undermined' because he thinks you are superior to him, that you will rralise and look diwn on or reject him. He stopped you from speaking because he knows he cannot think and articulate as quickly as you, so he will 'lose' any argument.
This is a very difficult situation, because short of masking your abilities and underachieving, there is nothing you can do. Trying to reassure will appear patronising to him. Any change needs to come from him recognising that your strengths do not weaken him.
As far as the behaviour it manifests in is concerned, I wouldn't tolerate it. I'd be very clear with him that if he ever acted that way again it would be the end. Its not only a bad example to DS, but a man's loss of control, anger and violent acts can be truly terrifying to a small child.

He also said "ever since you started that new job, you've got worse. thinking you're the big I am. People listen to you at work and then you come home nad think you can do that same to me"

Ah. The little precious is threatened by you. He doesn't get to play Big Man so he has tantrums to try & get his own way.

He's horrible, OP. Really, really horrible.

I don't feel in danger.

He keeps muttering to himself and saying stuff under his breath right by me. I know this sounds weird though - I feel like some of it is put on like he wants me to ask what he's saying.

Anyway - yes, I am the main breadwinner. He doesn't have much interest in work. We don't have a shared bank account so I have access to my own money.

I thought he would go for 5050 if we split - but just then I said "we have two options, we either commit to counselling together and really work on this and commit to no anger, not abusive threats etc, or we split - but we can't keep on like this, arguing in front of the kids and then subjecting them to an atmosphere - that is the worst option of all"

And he said "That is a worst option than them not having a dad?"

And I said "Why would splitting up mean they don't have a dad?"

And he shrugged. Maybe he was trying to scare me.

I think you're are all right. We are so far from agreeing. He said it was my "pride" that would the "downfall of this marriage and the reasons the kids come from a fucked up broken home". He really thinks this is all me. It's messing with me head - how can we both see it so differently?

Yeah - he is being really horrible right now. He's not like this all the time obviously. Just then he opened pulled a silly face to make our baby laugh for a second and i felt myself soften and feel full of regret that we are where we are. But yes, i've got to hear what he's saying and how's he acting and listen to that too.

*And I said "Why would splitting up mean they don't have a dad?"

And he shrugged. Maybe he was trying to scare me.*

What do you feel about this? Sounds better than 50-50 if he’s abusive to your toddler.

To me this guy is dangerous, he has no limits, and he hates your guts. I would end it as soon as possible. The danger is once you have split. Gut feeling here. Sorry OP. This is going down blazing...

The fact is that he wants to silence you. He wants to speak and for you to cower and listen - to be able to dictate inside the house.

He is a massive misogynist - the 'all women' comment shows this.

He is threatening to not see the children to try to scare/guilt you into staying. It's obvious he is unhappy in the relationship but his solution is for you to just do exactly when he wants, and put up with his shit.

Why do men like this not want the relationship to end? Because they want to maintain power and control. When he feels his power and control slipping he reacts with violence and abuse. He's already shown you this.

What is your housing situation? Do you own or rent? You might be able to get a non-molestation order and/or occupation order to remove him from the home if he isn't willing to go.

I second that he's a misogynist. It was all fine when he could be the big I Am, but now you've found your voice, you're the main provider, you know best about the kids (and you do, never doubt that!) he can't handle it. To admit otherwise would be for him to admit his own inadequacy as a parent, a husband and a human being. He won't be able to do it. I suspect a lot of his issues are rooted in rock bottom self esteem - my late husband was the same - but men like that won't do the work they need to do.

Leave him, leave him, leave him. He will not change, except for the worse.

Yeah - I agree @pointythings - I think his self-esteem is rock bottom. He never goes out with his friends anymore. Seems totally overwhelmed by the smallest thing at work. It's like he is domineering but also timid - I can't describe it.

Doesn't help today that the kids are both unwell (ear infection/colds) so been at home all day - DS has been really struggling today - shouting, crying, repeating himself again and again. DH has been loving it - he hasn't left the sofa all afternoon and just smirks every time one of them starts doing something they shouldn't. It's like parenting with an audience - and a pretty hostile one! But I haven't exactly been mum of the year today - a low point was DS managing to run off with the cleaning spray and started spraying it on the walls. A particular highlight for DH - he was laughing to himself.

@Danni675 - I just felt shocked that he seemed to think the end of us meant not being a dad. It's a thought I would never have. But yeah - I mean it would be easier if he would just leave us all alone I sometimes think.

Agree about misogynist thing - he watches some questionable stuff on youtube. Well, I think it's questionable - he says it's just my superiority again coming out when I say it sounds like nonsense.

I've found some numbers for therapists to call on Monday - for me by myself if he won't do it.

Then maybe i won't need to write mini essays to you kind souls every 5 minutes :) haha.

So he's been sitting there smirking while your poorly kids run riot, and not helping at all? Asshole.

So he's been watching meninist crap on YouTube? Asshole.

Find your anger. Hang onto your anger. Lose the loser.

He's a dick. Don't invite him to counselling with you. Couples counseling wouldn't be advised anyway. Just get yourself some counselling pronto.

OP when my son was four, also asd, I moved out of the house I shared with his dad while he was at school. I left with clothes, toys and a blow up airbed while he was at work and DS was at school. I worried so much in the run up about the upheaval for him. But he was FINE. Because he had me. It's not the four walls that is your son's constant, it's you!

Hope the kids feel better soon and you get some breathing space.
**

Couples counselling isn’t recommended for abusive relationships. Some counselling for you alone is a very good plan. Keep posting here too ( if its helpful)- lots of us have been where you are xxxx

He sounds like a horrible man and you are much better off without him. No one deserves to be spoken to the way he’s talking you you.

Bullying husband