Who is in the wrong? Fight in front of DC

[SmashedPots]

I'm going to describe this as factually as possible and want honest opinions

DC (3) still has tantrums. Every morning it's hard to get him ready. He was playing with playdoh and he was half dressed. Before he put his jumper on he said "more playdoh mummy". I had got some out and it was on the side. He did already have some in his hands.

DH comes downstairs to take DC to school. DH says "no more playdoh. We are going now"

Tantrum starts. It's a bad one. DC shouting a lot "more playdoh etc etc"

I say under my breath to DH "he could have just had that playdoh you know. I did get it out for him"

DH shouts "fuck you. Fuck off undermining me like always"

DC stops tantrum as soon as DH shouts at me and starts shouting at DH "stop fighting"

I say "calm down DH. Stop shouting in front of DC"

He keeps shouting

I say "you're less in control of your emotions that DS"

DH grabs the pot of play-doh (which he had put on a high shelf" and throws it really hard at the floor right in front of DS.

I tell DH to get out.

DH shouts "you fucking made this happen. Undermining me as fucking usual. This is your fault."

I haven't raised my voice once but DH tells me I've got that "look on my face"

My poor baby boy.

It lasted 5 mins in total. They have now left and I have to get ready for work with the baby.

Was I undermining? Is this abusive? I can't think straight these days.

Did he say goodbye to the DC, tell your oldest to have a lovely time with granny etc

It's so depressing that it's 2022 and men are still allowed to opt out of parenting and it's still the fucking woman's fault for not doing it to his standard.

Absolutely. It's unbelievable.

On a purely practical level (not even counting the emotional/abusive side of this story), he only has himself to blame regarding his inability to connect with your son and get him out of the house calmly in the morning - he never practices at it! How does he expect to have a good relationship with his son if he doesn't get up in the morning with him?

At work he wouldn't expect to perform at a high standard in a task he had had no training in, and this is no different

OK well we obviously have VERY different ideas of what is acceptable, even as 'not a regular occurrence'. There is a reason it happens again and again (however irregularly) and that is because you simply do not recognise that it is extreme and unacceptable behaviour which is traumatising to children.

Parenting is hard. Being a defenceless child is much harder when your parents are sometimes very scary people and you don't know if and when that's going to happen next.

And would you express your 'deep unhappiness' by screaming, shouting, swearing at your wife AND child and throwing things around?

No, you wouldn't. Because you're not an abusive fucker.

Sorry it doesn't matter whether you think she was 'undermining' him. It's not her job to manage his emotions for him, it's his. He's an adult. He has a child. He doesn't get to throw tantrums. No matter how unreasonable he thinks she's being, no matter how unreasonable she IS being (although I don't think she was, AT ALL). United front at the expense of fairness to the child is not a virtue. What if her DH wanted to spank their child, should she bow down and say "oh yes, DH is right, you have been naughty" and let him do it, just to show a 'united front' and stop him losing his shit like an overgrown child?

He was in the wrong on every front. Not getting up and helping with the morning routine (ever), swanning in and demanding that the peaceful morning they were having instantly cease and reorientate around him, totally overreacting to a reasonable suggestion by his wife, tacitly threatening their 3 year old child. There is no way this can be spun to be anything other than what it is. Unless you really think shouting, throwing and swearing around kids is not as bad as an 'undermining' remark under your breath.

Yes, THIS!

The OP said it under her breath because (I presume) she actively didn't want her son to pick up on their disagreement and was trying to head off the 3yo's meltdown by alerting her DP to the fact the Playdoh was part of the getting ready process and helpful (which he clearly hadn't grasped, on account of not having been there) as opposed to saying clearly, "No, he can have it, give it back to him" and making it obvious she was disagreeing with him in front of their child. Trying to present, as you say, a united front, without backing her DH in a decision she knew would cause a meltdown and not help anyone be ready on time.

He decided to escalate into a full blown tantrum. There is no equivalence here and I do not know why you are so desperate to find one.

You're saying she has to take responsibility for modifying her behaviour to avoid 'setting him off'. Walk on eggshells basically. Jesus this website.

Or maybe it's because she is the one actually engaging with the child they have and his specific needs, and actually does know best? I think the DH dismissing parenting research as jargon and switching off when the OP tries to discuss their child's possible SEN speaks volumes. He wants the fun bits, not the difficulties and the hard work.

Lots of people don't like assertive, capable women, maybe that's your issue with the OP's style. She should be cringing and prefacing everything with "maybe I'm completely wrong but..." "I mean what do I know but it seems to me" and all the other little verbal fore-lock tugging women have to do before stating an opinion if they don't want to be perceived as 'dramatic', 'controlling' etc.

There were a lot of really unpleasant posts when this thread was in AIBU @MaybeIWillFuckOffThen. Can we leave them behind now the OP has had this thread moved to relationships? I'm not sure it's very helpful to @SmashedPots to keep dredging them up.

Ahhh she's to busy with the husband who has asked his wife for an open marriage on the other thread - she loves him too! Jenny's going to have a harem at this rate, refugee husbands from all these unreasonable bitches on Mumsnet :P

I'm catching up with the thread @clymene and posting as I go along. If the OP has an issue she can tell me. It's not your thread.

If it was me, I'd appreciate the vote of confidence that these posters are completely wrong!

I don't quite get how, finding out when you have a DC that you are left to do it all, and are employed elsewhere yourself , leads to having another DC and not expecting more of the same, but double the load and twice the misery?
You do actually talk of your DH as though you despise him, like non of his opinions mean anything since DC- don't blame you at all. But then you say a few days its all lovely. Really? So you are blowing hot and cold and you are probably able to brush more under the carpet than most would. You may have unintentionally built up a tolerance to shows of anger as you grew up with it. Yes many say they wouldn't put up with what they had to deal with, but actually it often ends up with putting up with the same stuff from childhood.
If he's always had anger issues, then you've always known it too, but brushed it aside enough to marry him and have DC's anyway, that is your responsibility for finding yourself here. Your choice is to get out of it or continue to live it and even - heaven forbid- have more DC, with a crap father, DH and shit in bed to boot - if he's that bad why procreate and tie yourself to it even more. Is it making you happy?
Everyone makes mistakes, but not everyone choses to live with them forever. It's up to you to change - he won't, as he doesn't see he has a problem even.

I also think your comment about previously having posted about him being bad in bed is very important. This is the ultimate ego wounder for men, and if he knows or even suspects you think this he will be hurt massively. It can often drag entire relationships down. The 0 to 100moh chronology of the original argument suggests he has a high residual level of anger about your relationship.

Do you think it would be possible for you to attend counselling together? Would you be prepared to expand on your comment about him being bad in bed?

I'm obviously not excluding his awful behaviour to you and your son. But in these situations where parents are clashing so badly about parenting styles, fixing an underlying issue can often calm the situation down and resolve it in a calmer manner.

*mph; excusing

I think it's more simple than that; someone who is impatient, selfish and unkind in daily life is unlikely to be a giving and sensitive lover.

It's not particularly helpful to ask why someone chose to have dc/more dc with an abusive H. The dc are here and OP cannot unhave them (sure she wouldn't want to anyway).

Having myself been on the receiving end of such questions - I very much doubt that it is of any use to the OP or to her current situation.

Right now she needs to be built up, to continue her courageous decision making (and it is hugely courageous to leave her H and go to her mums), not torn even further down than he has already done.

OP - you are doing amazingly well. Keep it up.

God. It's tough eh. Come to my mums and baby is having a great time but DS is just repeating "I want to go home mummy" over and over. Relentlessly. Just been sobbing on my arms. Doesn't wanna eat the dinner my mum prepared. My dad looks so fed up and started drinking at 4. Not exactly giving me a break. Feel bad for DS. He just hates change. By prioritising myself dS suffers. Gahhhhhhhhhh.

I didn't bring any play-doh because I knew my mum would be annoyed at the mess. But boy do we miss it! Ha ha!

Have you spoken to your mum about what’s been going on? I hope she’s supportive.

By prioritising myself dS suffers

You're not prioritising yourself. You've taken the only real course of action to get your DS out of an abusive household. Of course he wants to go home - he's a small child who likes familiarity. But you are doing the right thing, even if just to buy yourself some thinking time. Have you told your mum what's going on?

@Danni675 its an odd one. DM is supportive in the sense she is warm and sweet to me and happy to talk about both DH and DS challenges. But if she hears the words "autism" or "divorce" she shuts down with a lot of "oh that all sounds a bit dramatic. Its just normal family life/kids being kids/husbands being husbands"

I text DH to say we are here etc and a couple of other bits and had no response.

It's odd because he was so sorry after the fight but now it feels like he's the one angry with me. Maybe he's taken aback I told him I wasn't interested in his crying at work etc

Thank you for all being so kind and supportive.

@LadyJoannaScroop thank you. I've told her bits but she doesn't agree with divorce. Not unless he cheats or something.

Some women just set the bar very low. My mum also thought divorce was the evil to end all evils and when I told her I was divorcing my H because of his drinking she told me that if I was nicer to him, maybe he wouldn't drink so much. Fortunately my resolve was already iron by that point (and I knew she was also an alcoholic). Parents aren't always best placed to be supportive, and I hope you have friends who will get it in RL.