Who is in the wrong? Fight in front of DC

[SmashedPots]

I'm going to describe this as factually as possible and want honest opinions

DC (3) still has tantrums. Every morning it's hard to get him ready. He was playing with playdoh and he was half dressed. Before he put his jumper on he said "more playdoh mummy". I had got some out and it was on the side. He did already have some in his hands.

DH comes downstairs to take DC to school. DH says "no more playdoh. We are going now"

Tantrum starts. It's a bad one. DC shouting a lot "more playdoh etc etc"

I say under my breath to DH "he could have just had that playdoh you know. I did get it out for him"

DH shouts "fuck you. Fuck off undermining me like always"

DC stops tantrum as soon as DH shouts at me and starts shouting at DH "stop fighting"

I say "calm down DH. Stop shouting in front of DC"

He keeps shouting

I say "you're less in control of your emotions that DS"

DH grabs the pot of play-doh (which he had put on a high shelf" and throws it really hard at the floor right in front of DS.

I tell DH to get out.

DH shouts "you fucking made this happen. Undermining me as fucking usual. This is your fault."

I haven't raised my voice once but DH tells me I've got that "look on my face"

My poor baby boy.

It lasted 5 mins in total. They have now left and I have to get ready for work with the baby.

Was I undermining? Is this abusive? I can't think straight these days.

Yes you under minded him but didn’t warrant his reaction

But if she hears the words "autism" or "divorce" she shuts down with a lot of "oh that all sounds a bit dramatic. Its just normal family life/kids being kids/husbands being husbands"

Well done for seeing this minimising for what it is. I think sometimes people who mean well can minimise without meaning to- they want everything to be good for you so unconsciously pretend that it is.

I suspect your husband is angry because he can tell you've had enough and that the usual cycle isn't working any more.

I've come back home. Maybe that was a mistake. But DS had a temp overnight and was asking to go home all day and to be honest I thought DH might have gone elsewhere.

Anyway come home to a pristine house and a very weird DH. He's being so nice to the kids ("daddy has missed his boys soooooooo much") but just awful to me. Eye rolling, smirking, v sarcastic at everything. He's now gone to play video games again. Headphones on.

It's scary because the more he acts like this the more it feels I really can't see us working it out or even talking about things. The future feels v scary.

When he's like this it feels like he hates me.

Wouldn't this be classic manipulation and using the children to almost make you feel isolated and get them to like him (if that makes sense)? Either way, nasty piece of work and regardless of what your mum thinks divorce-wise, I'd be seriously thinking about separation. He sounds unhinged.

Yeah, that's manipulation and very typical. I would start getting my ducks in a row, you don't want this man in your life.

OP sorry your time at your mum's didn't help. I hadn't realised she was also still with your scary dad. She will be of no support to you here other than surface level stuff sadly.

He is being nice to the kids as a steak stark contrast to highlight his disdain towards you. Twat. Please start trying to disengage emotionally from him. Google grey rock. Try and access some counselling just for you if you can. And also, get some legal advice regarding a split. He won't change and you and your children deserve so much better than this.

I can understand your worry about his time with them if you split but by all accounts he sounds like he doesn't like any of the actual hard or boring graft of parenthood! 🙄 He may say he will want 50/50 but I'd be shocked if he followed through with that AND kept it up.

What did preschool say? Or HV? Your health visitor sounds lovely and supportive, please reach out to her. Logging his behaviour with preschool and HV will help you going forwards too. Please do it and don't be embarrassed to.

I think you need to be really honest and admit that you just don't like each other very much. Maintaining this farce will just damage your children even more in the long term. You both need to think about how you are behaving toward each other. He puts you down and gaslights you and you mutter under your breath and tell random strangers that he isn't very good in bed (Imagine the fallout if he was on here saying things like that about you?). Clearly neither of you have much respect for eachother. Neither of you agree on patenting either. Both of you need to think about the long term impact this is going to have on the children. This is exactly how children grow up into messed up adults. I think you know there isn't going to be an 'us' in this relationship and it's better to end it now while the damage can still be repaired.

Your DH is being extra nice to persuade himself that he is a good parent and also prove it to you. Being nasty to you is to demonstrate that you’re the problem here, not him. It’s just part of the abuse cycle and will be short lived because he can’t maintain it without first tackling his issues. Don’t let him get into your head and grey rock all the way.

Oh @Mumsanetta I did the opposite of grey rock. I came downstairs and he said he was thinking of going to our local to watch the game but would decide later on after 20 mins of the game. I said "are we still eating together?" He pursed his lips and closed his eyes and kind of rolled his head back in annoyance. And I couldn't help it. I just asked why he seemed so angry.

He told me to leave him alone. And he doesn't want to talk about it

And I pushed it. Saying he hadn't talked to me since his angry outburst and we needed to talk. That it wasn't OK to be so obviously angry and not even say why and that I thought he was apologetic so why was he angry again now.

He went ballistic again.

"How I feel is nothing to do with your oh so clever mouth. You've always got something to day for yourself. Like you've got everything worked out. You push me to talk to you but I don't fucking want to. I want space from you. You think you're so fucking clever" etc etc.

And he's stormed out the house. Both kids safely asleep upstairs. Luckily our sitting room can't be heard upstairs at all but both kids are out for the count anyway.

Sorry to keep updating. You really all don't need these updates. I have no one IRL and it feels so bloody lonely in my house.

I just don't understand why he won't talk to me. I shouldn't have pushed but I can't stand the silence and all the eye rolls etc. My dad used to do it..silence and fuming for days...I hate it.

I'm gonna lose the kids our home. I can't stop crying. Why can't he just talk to me? I would work anything out. I know some people on this thread think I'm some sort of cow but really honestly I'm trying my best to do right by my sons and my husband and make them happy. And yet it ends up like this so much.

Have you read Lundy Bancroft?
www.docdroid.net/2fZmz40/why-does-he-do-that-pdf

It's emotional abuse and to silence and accept his shit treatment of you and the DC.

You all deserve so much better.

You've had lots of good advice here. The decision on what to do is really up to you, but staying for the children or for their current home doesn't really outweigh the trauma they'll go through living in a household where their parents can't have a disagreement without it ending up with mum in tears and dad being a passive aggressive AND aggressive beef head to his wife and child. Yes, their lives will be uprooted for some time, but once it settles down they will reap the rewards of having a happier mum and a safe and loving home environment.

I would put money on the fact he wouldn't last 5 minutes with the kids on his own and quite frankly, with his behaviour how you describe I'd be shocked if a court allowed them to be with him unsupervised.

You're not in the wrong, the way you feel is not wrong and wanting a better life for you and your children is not wrong.

Let go of this hold he has on you - it's part of the warped abuse he's putting you through and only you can stop that by taking steps to leave.

My two cents, and I'll leave it there.

"You've always got something to say for yourself."

This is the sound of a misogynist's mask truly slipping I'm afraid OP.

He's being abusive and punishing you.

Given how very young your DC are, now is probably your best time to leave. Once they're school age, a divorce will hit much harder.

Yeah, it sounds like he's done with the marriage to be honest. And that neither of you like each other very much. From how he is reacting and treating you I would still think he is deeply resentful towards you about something unrelated to the current argument - maybe the bad in bed thing, maybe something else related to your son. You could maybe ask him if this is the case

Please don't take the above as saying you are in any way to blame for this, you aren't at all

@YRGAM I was trying to ask him. He doesn't want to talk to me at all.

The bad in bed thing....he didn't used to be...but he just doesn't make any effort. He just flips me over for 3 minutes and we are done for another 2 months. I posted about it on here. He has no idea.

I can tell you that I think you are an absolutely great mum who is 100% trying to understand her little boy and do her best.

I hugely admire how you manage him innthe morning before work and if you were my daughter you would be moved home and that nasty prick would be dealing with me.

You are a great woman and mother and don't you allow that nasty waster cause you to doubt this.

He knows he's a waster and that you see him clearly....hence his fury.

He is awful and he cannot bear being found out for the awful husband and father he is.

This is his ego and narcissistic frailty tantruming at you seeing him clearly.

He is a waster.

Please contact GP, HV, Women's aid for support and postvas much as you like.

We are here for you.

Keep posting @SmashedPots and definitely don’t apologise for it. There are lots of friendly voices on this thread and some of the posters know exactly what you are going through.

Your dad used to behave in the same way because he was also abusive. I suspect you have a high tolerance for your husband’s bullshit because of your upbringing. But you also sound very strong and I have a feeling you will break the cycle somehow.

Grey rock is a hard thing to do but so is being on the receiving end of abuse. As for why he won’t talk to you, I think it’s because he isn’t ready to face his demons and may never be. He would rather be abusive to you because it’s easier to paint you as the villain. Give him space, stop chasing him and in doing so stop feeding his fabricated narrative. This may be incredibly hard to do but the fact that you’re such a great mum and advocate for your son tells me that you can face hard things.

It really sounds as if separating would be the best thing for you all. You sound so unhappy, op.

@billy1966 is very wise.

I'm so sorry you are feeling so lonely and it is so natural that you would, given what you are going through, @SmashedPots . It is simply awful. I've been there and experienced very similar behaviour to what you are describing. He's using tactics that are psychologically and emotionally painful because he doesn't like the way you are behaving. He doesn't want to resolve this in a mature and equal way, he wants to control the conversation so you take responsibility for everything and work harder to meet his expectations. He sees this marriage as a one-way street where you are continually under his scrutiny but his own behaviour is off-limits to any examination or criticism. He doesn't want an equal partnership with you and this is why he is not open to reasonable discussions with you.

He is going to try to keep you focused on him and on you being the problem and making it your job to appease him. So my suggestion is you stay focused on what you need to do to look after yourself and try to tune him out as much as you can (not easy as he will try various tactics and look for the ones that cause you the most distress). Reach out to Women's Aid, keep posting here for support, ignore posts that pile more blame on you, many people don't understand abuse.
On mumsnet there are threads from other women who have been through this, so keep posting!! You are clearly thoughtful, intelligent, resourceful so have heart that you have what it takes to create a life for yourself and your children that is free of this toxic behaviour, even if it takes some time to get there.

Cheeky arse came back in asking if dinner was ready, as if nothing had happened. Then DS just came downstairs crying complaining his ear hurt and DH started saying "he is such an angel" in this really OTT way. Even took photos of DS crying face saying "he really is so beautiful". So weird.

Thank you so much for all your kind advice and words of wisdom. I have taken myself off for an early night.

Poor DS sounds like an ear infection - hope he can kick it soon. Husbands behaviour is utterly bizarre. Good luck removing him from your life ASAP.

Hi @SmashedPots

i’ve been through this with my husband if 13 years (been together 20 odd years). Angry outbursts and smashing things a couple of times a year. I stayed while the kids were little because I minimised it and when things were OK they were pretty good. But it never changes and I can’t pretend I’m staying for the kids when I can now see it’s affecting them. I don’t want my son to think that’s an Ok way for a dad/husband to behave, and I don’t want my daughter to think it’s acceptable to be treated like that in a relationship. My kids are now 8 and nearly 5 so it’s been a long road of hoping for change. I am preparing to separate. I wish you lots of love and strength. I know it’s not easy. ❤️

Your husband sounds unhinged. Genuinely.