November 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

This is the latest thread, please feel free to write as much or as little as you please.

@Shortbread49 yes, it’s truly awe inspiring to be in the presence of such MISERY. The Atlas of Spleen. 🤣

I just thank my lucky stars that The Hag isn't my mother, ‘just’ my MIL because I would be in prison.

The idea of a holiday with Hag 🙄 of course, we do have some of the “I can't remember the last time I went on holiday”, “I never go on holiday”, “your mum goes on a lot of holidays, monkey, doesn't she?” etc etc. We don't even acknowledge it. She wouldn't contribute financially, it would be wall to wall misery and rage. Nope, two hours on Xmas day is as much as I'm doing.

@Thelnebriati that’s exactly. There is no pleasing them. Painful pointless exercise,

@briarhill go, you. That's so wonderful. Xxx

It is incredibly difficult to stop seeing a parent! I went backwards and forwards with no contact over the years but she always managed to wriggle her way in, assisted by all her family cheerleaders, and all that training she gave me as a child.

It was the stories and the support from here that gave me the strength. In lieu of coming for Christmas (as she had spoiled all the Christmas's she had been invited to), I took DH, my sibling and his family, mother and her husband for a preChristmas lunch in a nice restaurant.

It was horrible. My punishment for pulling away was that no one would speak to me or each other, or the staff. (They let me pay though, funnily enough ) My mother was hinting at having an unnamed (and undiagnosed) fatal illness, and kept silently weeping at the table.

I looked at all the other families having fun, remembered everything that I had learned here, paid the bill, wished everyone a merry Christmas, and told my husband and son that I would never put them through it again.

Went home, blocked them all, and have ignored all efforts to contact me. Luckily my mother is very thin skinned and never puts herself in a position where anyone could criticise her, so there have only only been a couple of 'pity me' letters and no real effort made.

I'm probably older than most in here (grown up children, none of whom are fond of her as she never really involved herself with them), and it took a long time to be strong enough but it has been such a relief.

@PollyTwoBlankets , that sounds like a pre-Xmas lunch from HELL. Thank you for sharing your story!

@PollyTwoBlankets blimey that sounds horrendous. I think there comes a point where the behaviour reaches such a complete low it makes it easier to cut ties.

Can I ask your collective advice?

When I get any communication from my family, even when they're being their version of "nice," it sends me into a tailspin. To recover my equilibrium after Family Visit from Hell, it would ideal if I could go no contact or least minimise it as much as I can. But now that my mother is aging and experiencing increasing health problems, the FOG and social expectations make it more complicated.

How have you all managed these situations?

I wish I could hire a P.A. to write chatty breezy emails for me and send appropriate holidays gifts, so I could just get on with my life. Someone should invent a "writing to my toxic relative breezy email generator."

Thanks and

I think my goal is benevolent detachment from them. How do you get to the stage where you detach from them emotionally so you don't lose your equilibrium when they poke you?

briarhill

How do they communicate aka summons you usually?. Examine how they summons you. It should be possible to block their emails or else to send those straight to spam or bin for instance.

re your comment:
"To recover my equilibrium after Family Visit from Hell, it would ideal if I could go no contact or least minimise it as much as I can. But now that my mother is aging and experiencing increasing health problems, the FOG and social expectations make it more complicated".

But what is more important is your own peace of mind which will come about by not having anything further to do with your mother. Sod social expectations as well; they do not have this person as their mother. And we're all getting older too; don't fall down that rabbit hole. It is not your role to furthermore become her de facto carer. Do you think she at all has any remorse for how you and in turn your family have been treated; not a bit of it. Such people too never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions.

Deal with any and all FOG you still have through therapy. Let go of any and all hope that she will change even now.

You do not really need a random "writing to my toxic relative breezy email generator" because that keeps the line of communication open and from this also invites a response. A response from you is what they want; that is the reward to such disordered of thinking people. They will try to hoover you back into their dysfunctional world at any cost.

Thank you, @AttilaTheMeerkat .

I know in my bones that everything you say is true. It's getting the courage to actually implement it in the face of FOG and the pressure to be "nice."

I agree also that therapy is what I need. I live in a non-English-speaking country so finding an English-speaking therapist is a challenge, but if anyone here can recommend a good therapist who does appointments by Zoom or Skype, that would be excellent. I'm not that far from the UK in terms of time zones.

Huge thanks to all of you for sharing your wisdom and stories.

Hi, can I join? I’ve seen this thread referred to before but not understood the title until now.
I’ve woken up with an upset stomach today and I don’t know whether it’s stress or last nights takeaway. It has reminded me of how I used to vomit with stress whilst planning my wedding years ago due to the things my mother said or did. Loads of stuff but she cried quite hysterically when I found a wedding dress because she didn’t get to help pick it and she was obsessed with the design of things like invitations and what they conveyed about our family. She wasn’t paying btw.
This stuff is mild though compared to what has played out since. My siblings and I have picked up the pieces of crisis after crisis for a good number of years but the more we do the more we are expecting to do. My mother is not accountable for anything that’s has gone wrong over this period and this has come to a head recently. She has made a significant error that has massive consequences and she absolutely cannot accept this is the case. In the absence of anyone to blame she has gone on the attack and started going after us. She is also taking unbelievable rash decisions and telling me about them via texts during the working day as well as trying to make me accountable for them.
The texting during the working days (we’ve asked her not to) is now something we all recognise and often includes trauma dumping, including but not limited to telling us she has put a DNR on my dads medical records in an otherwise “breezy” text. I don’t know what to do next tbh, I’ve read about FOG and that’s exactly where we all are. We will be seeing her over Christmas and I’m genuinely concerned she will attempt to manipulate my teen. She’s already tried that recently to get us to change our Christmas Day plans.
Sorry that was a lot longer than I expected. It has been helpful to write it down though.

Gameoflifer

Do deal with all your FOG through therapy, at the very least watch podcasts on YouTube by Dr Ramani.

Block all her access to you and your own family members. You cannot and should not enable her any longer, all enabling does is give you a false sense of control. You would likely not tolerate this from a friend, your mother is no different.

Do not see your mother at all over the festive period!. No good will come of you people seeing her and you will have another Christmas ruined and or otherwise spoilt. Your mother was not a good parent to you when you were growing up and she has not changed. She will emotionally harm your teen if given access, she sees that young person as a useful source of narcissistic supply.

Thanks Atilla. Do you have advice on how to explain this to young children who love their granny?

@GameOfLifer my DS became aware of his nanny’s behaviour when he was 7. I didn’t have to explain. I think kids do pick up on uneasiness at family events and you can either have an age appropriate conversation or limit time spent without explaining too much. My DCs are older and they’ve heard snippets about our two difficult family members from aunts etc.
My DH would never allow his mother to be in the same room as DCs without one of us being present- purely because of her dripping poison and manipulating them against us.

@GameOfLifer welcome to the gang. Tons of amazing people here all sharing the issue of crap families.

Hag update number 5078. Why is my MIL aka the Hag such a fucking nightmare?

So she's had this DISGUSTING large canker on her face for months.

Mr. Monkey has told her repeatedly to go to the Dr with it. She's refused - the usual mix of martyrdom and then screaming with the rage the next moment. Even though MM has disengaged hugely from her toxic games thanks to therapy and my support this is worrying and her bullshit just makes it worse.

It was when the Carer said you need to see a doctor did she decide she would. Cue doctor drama.

He takes her to the doctor, drama over being late (not late), the taxi etc.

Dr says that needs to be checked out for cancer (of course) and it’s infected. She uses these FILTHY flannels to wash her face and has filthy towels.

All of this BS comes back to us as the consequences of her REFUSING to take care of her is more rage and an attempt to get seriously 😷 so we have to host her here and nurse like we did at points over the last few years. NO CHANCE.

MM and 8 agreed that she is never coming here. We are standing firm on the Xmas plan. Lunch here on Xmas Day. She's not staying over - no need as she lives 10 minutes walk away. Then we escape to my mum’s. Hag is not using her situation to lever the invite she feels so entitled to.

MM has had to take the afternoon off work as he's so stressed by her.

I've just bought her two towel bales - she's not getting the flannels - and face wipes so she can keep herself clean. If she doesn't use them, fair game.

But the consequences of poor hygiene is on her head and she's NOT changing our plans. She's a fuckimg nightmare.

Heartily sick of her. 86 and counting...

GameofLifer

You are the parent. You get to make these decisions without apology or excessive justification. You can assure your children that you are making a wise and loving decision for them as well as yourself. I am not going to script what you should say because you are the only one who knows your children, but you must convey that this isn't up for negotiation. This is not a decision that the child gets to make.

Yes, children usually love their grandparents. Children are often quite indiscriminate in their love which is why they need parents to guide them. Not every person is safe to have around and this is a good time to teach that important life lesson. The more matter-of-fact you are, the more matter-of-fact your children will be. When we act hysterical, they will usually reflect our hysteria. If you act anxious, they will act anxious. If you appear unsure, they will push. Model the reaction and attitude you want your children to adopt.

MonkeyfromManchester

Feel for you both here, she still has that ability to have you involved even though you in particular have made great strides. Now MM has had to take the afternoon off work due to her shitty behaviour.

Neither of you are at all responsible for her face canker and its likely there also because of her overall state of health and age. Both of you absolutely have to drop the rope here; a rope she still holds out to you both and MM in particular.

Ask yourself why you bought towel bales for her. I presume MM asked you to do this. (Have been placed in an awkward spot by DH before now re his mother because of his directly telling me what to do for her, a time I remember is paying for her taxi from our house to somewhere or other. I felt somewhat both conned and pissed off at both of them. I learnt a harsh lesson that day).

You know as well as I do what is going to happen to those towel bales; they will end up unused and dumped in a room in her shit tip. If these have not already been given to her I would regift these to an organisation like say the Salvation Army who will actually be glad of such things.

Her Christmas Day lunch with you people should also be cancelled because no good will come of it even though its only two hours. She could well pull some drama here to really try and scupper your plans post this. It would not surprise me if she further uses this sore to create yet more drama for all it is worth.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

Thank you!

It has all the makings of a nightmare.

But we will resist. As soon as Mr Monkey came home, the first thing out of his mouth was ‘this isn't going to change our plans for Xmas. The deal is what it is. We are not going to be blackmailed’.

Really proud of him. Hugely delighted.

MM didn't ask me to buy the towel bales, I did and I got the cheapest ones available. He’s going to her flat on Friday, taking the old ones and chucking them in our bin. She will have no choice. If she chooses to put them in her spare room, she can dry herself on her ripped carpet.

She wants her fucking face to get infected so as much as I can do - from a great distance and with no engagement - to keep her deliberate self-sabotage to a minimum I will. Basically, she wants to make it worse. She then tries to use a worsened health situation for maximum drama and to try and elicit a permanent residence at our house through it. She will never stay here even again.

I'm very clear with MM that I'm not doing any nursing, nor is he. If it is bad news, we can re-engage social services to pick up the joy of her. Macmillan etc.

We’re sticking to the plan. Lunch here and then we get to do the Xmas we want without her by leaving the city for a week. She tried every trick in the book with her ‘flu’ which wasn't even a bad cold last year. When I've had flu I've been bedridden for a week, there is no way that was flu.

We pushed back and didn't rush back to Manvhester to pick up her shopping because she was so 😷 or respond to the other bullshit like she hadn't eaten. She tried this a time before when there was a half eaten bacon sandwich on the arm of her filthy armchair! MM pointed this out. He's now open with me about her lying.

I'm briefing Mummy Monkey that we’re not changing the plans. Hag will milk it for all its worth, but she no longer has a credulous audience. That ship has sailed.

MM has briefed Slave Son.

We are resolute.

Off for wine!!!

Very pleased indeed to read this from you Monkey. This will become
MM and your finest hour!.

@AttilaTheMeerkat its not going to be easy, but we’re not being controlled by a 4ft 8 inch of vile.

I think my mum might be dying, and I need to vent about it
she's 75 - so not that old - but not been in great health for recent years. in hospital with heart problems and kidney problems, and in an overstretched NHS they've moved her to a side room on her own which is slightly ominous. also now lacks mental capacity, so hospital visits can be a charming mixture of her whining that she wants to go home to die, then asking me how I come up with names for all the rabbits and bunnies (I've never had a rabbit)
I just don't know how I feel about all this...
been low contact for a few years for the sake of my own mental health. she was never really much of a mum to me, but while she was able to she tried to be a better GM to my DD
but this is the woman who when I was growing up, disintegrated tell me about periods, but then when I started then she didn't always buy me sanitary protection. so I either had to try and make do with tissues, or use her jumbo tampons as a teen. except when I used them she'd hit me. she told me my dad would kill himself and it would be my fault. on one occasion when I was about 16 she walked into me bedroom when my then boyfriend had hit me. her response was the quietly leave the room and never mention it. this was backed up by the constant mentions of how I would be pretty if I lost weight/wore mascara/used a different lipstick.
on top of it all, I know there's no will, or anything like that so if she dies it's going to be a mess. if she doesn't die she'll need to go into care and as there's no power of attorney that will be a whole heap of issues too.
I don't know what to do, what to feel

@ClosedAuraOpenMind you poor thing. Hugs to you. This is a really hard situation as you're picking up the pieces and having to have to be in close proximity with someone who's been abusive and not much of a mother. My advice for what it’s worth is to get your ducks in a row as much as you possibly can so you're not having to do care for someone who didn’t care for you.

www.carersuk.org/help-and-advice/practical-support/coming-out-of-hospital

This gives info on not becoming the care giver and it's refreshing in it not making a ‘bad thing’ because it isn’t. No victim of abuse has any responsibility to their abuser.

Do you have siblings?

have two brothers, one of whom is the golden child
have been clear with hospital that if mother is in a position to leave she won't be coming here. I have a busy, fairly pressurised job where I largely wfh, and DD who is 11, so would not be able to have her here
unfortunately we're now I think at point where her being able to go to a care home, and us having to go to court to get the necessary permission to sell her home to fund it, will be a good outcome
and I'm just so fucking angry at her. my dad died six years ago, and when he died we didn't even know if he had life insurance it was such a mess, at one point we didn't even know how we would pay for the funeral
she swore then she would get everything sorted, do power of attorney etc. and she's done nothing, absolutely nothing
to top it all, I am monumentally busy at work, we're short staffed, and my supposed deputy is next to useless

Nightmare!

Can you divide the necessary work up? Is one of the siblings a control freak who loves that kind of thing?

I'm really glad you've made it clear that she's not going to you. We made the massive error of having the Hag MIL released to us from hospital in 2020 which ended up being a wall to wall nightmare. Biggest mistake of my life.

We now have social workers in place and a care package which is paid for by the council as the Hag has no money.

It’s a nightmare when these kinds of parents take no responsibility. It's going back to the ‘I am a child’ thing of they need constant support and propping up.

@MonkeyfromManchester I'm usually the control freak - but I just don't know how I can do this. How can you be there for someone when they have never been there for you?? I have no clue.
but yes, quite typical of mother to not do the difficult things....this is after all the woman who didn't tell my father she was pregnant till about four hours before I was born,,,,

@MonkeyfromManchester @AttilaTheMeerkat and everyone else - hello :)

back under new username, you will probably work it out from the content of my post but please don’t reference the old username as I think I’ve been spotted! how is everyone doing? hope you are all fine and dandy

I am the MNer with the difficult sibling relationship, particularly concerning my attendance at the wedding. Lots has happened since I last posted. Had frank conversation with both parents and DP and they listened, took onboard what I/we said and went away and reflected. had some heart to hearts since and my DM has come round entirely and apologised for how one sided things have been and that she will be monitoring everything really closely from now on in and that she fully understands DSis has been far from kind. they gave me some time to process then asked if I would meet her to keep the peace which I have done, NC isn’t an option really

in the space I’ve had I’ve been able to look at things objectively and I think DSis is extremely unwell. not that it’s for anyone to speculate, but she has since lied about multiple family members including DM and claimed they have all said hurtful/snide comments towards her. everything she has said does not sound in character for any of the people she’s accused. DM denied the accusation on her (I was not present but DM has relayed everything since). DSis then told DM she was gaslighting her and to be careful because a lot is to play for… whatever that means. DM was upset for days. I am shocked that she would use manipulative tactics on DM as previously she saw her as an ally but I happen to wonder if this has happened because she can see DM can see things from both sides. I don’t know what causes somebody to lie maliciously. I doubt she could genuinely think these things had been said, as some were outrageous. Attention? Or is it characteristic of NPD? Unsure

Would love to step away but can’t really in this situation as it threatens relationship with DN

I would continue to be wary going forward both with your parents and sister (she in particular).

Your niece will go on to be influenced by her mother (and her enabler H) who is not a nice person to be at all around. I can understand you wanting a relationship with your niece but ultimately you may have to let that go as she gets older.