April 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It’s April 2022 and the Stately Home is still open to all comers.

@winningeasy oh that’s okay then, always good to have a crowd of people around you who you know have your back. I think your mum might feel awkward if anything, but then that’s not your fault! There’s so many people there thankfully any possible negative behaviour will be entirely diluted

Thank you, not sure what I want to do but I definitely get no urge to meet her at any point. Being around her doesn’t leave me feeling very healthy, she is very insecure in herself which I think is the root of her behaviour but she manages that feeling by boasting and needing to be in the spotlight. She is very very clever and gaslights me in most conversations, to the point where it does have an effect on my self esteem.

DP is very supportive and will not give his opinion unless I ask for it, but I feel so stuck in the mud that I am often asking for his thoughts (and everyone else’s) rather than making my own decision. I think the upshot is that I want my sense of discomfort validating and for someone to say, of course, have nothing to do with it. Or for there to be a way to make her change, which I know deep down won’t happen.

@chatterbug22 thats a difficult one. The problem is that she sounds so toxic and she’s never going to see things from your viewpoint. I’m not sure I would bring a friend to be honest - it might just put her back up. If you do go, could you grey rock her rather than getting drawn into an argument. Eg “that’s your opinion and I will take it on board” rather than starting a discussion. You could say to her that you are pleased for her and would love to see your DN when born and then maybe talk about non-emotive things like prams or something and avoid getting into an argument. It depends if you think you’d be able to do this though as I think an argument would just be upsetting for you.

As for me, I’ve had a couple of days really struggling with my MH. Despite my tips about anxiety on here, I’m feeling it getting on top of me at the moment. I am trying to be kind to myself. I’ve only recently had this insight about my mum’s abusive behaviour so I am grieving that relationship in a way. I’m also in the process of buying a house and I’m changing jobs in 6 weeks, so it’s all so much and I’m not coping well. I was thinking of asking my GP for beta blockers or something. I have taken SSRIs in the past but they caused weight gain so I am not keen on them plus they take a long time to work. I’m going to have to wait for ages for an appointment though so until then it will have to be self help stuff. I have a book about overcoming complex PTSD from childhood so I’m reading that and im looking forward to my counselling starting in a couple of weeks. It’s so hard to keep going day to day though.

@Findingithard43 wow you have a lot going on, also in process of buying house... feels like such a mammoth task and just have no energy.
I think I am in the same place as you, I've only just realised my Mum was culpable in the abuse (mainly from my narc father but she dished out plenty of her own). Are you getting flash backs? Mine came thick and fast for a month or so but seems to have quietened down now.
I am finding meditation helpful, also doing yoga a couple of times a week and doing my best to eat right. Rest as much as possible because my brain has been doing over time. I have also started micro dosing psilocybin - appreciate this is not everyone's cup of tea but there's huge body of evidence these are more effective than anti depressants and has really help me make emotional break throughs in the past. Reading also helping - I am reading 'Narcissistic fathers' by Dr Therese Covert (unfortunate name lol) and 'Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents' by Lindsay Gibson was a real eye opener for me.

Hugs x

Hi everyone been reading the last few pages. I'm sorry that we are all here because of toxic people in our lives. None of them realise the damage they have caused.

@winningeasy thanks for the book recommendations will take a long at those.

@Findingithard43 I hope you're OK. Try as much as you can to indulge in self care. Obviously easier said then done.

I've posted on this board on and off over the past 5 or so years. Sometimes things are better, other times my family hurt me so much.
Tonight has been one of those times. Yet again my mum is trying to stir up drama. Apparently my sister has told her she's not happy with the present I brought my nephew. For some reason my mum thought it was appropriate to tell me.

My mum always tries to triangulate. I know she does this but I just can't seem to break from it. Growing up my sister was the scapegoat and me golden child. My mum is now beginning to do this with the grandchildren. I've told her she needs to stop doing it as my nephew will begin to resent his cousin. She doesn't think she's doing anything wrong.

They all trample over my boundaries. I set some they don't care and because I've been passive all my life I just let them do it. Whenever I've stood up for myself I've been ostracised from the family.

I have a therapist. I'm trying to do inner child work. If anyone has any advice on that, that would be so helpful!

The thought of going NC scares the life out of me as I have no one else around really.

Sorry to derail you, Shine & I’m sorry I haven’t acknowledged those who responded to me. From what previously happened to me, I now don’t have confidence in anything I say so just find it easier to say nothing rather than risk getting pushed away emotionally again…hence my question….

DC’s birthday is approaching & her grandparents will be in touch to ask what she wants. I don’t want to communicate with them on any level and my DD is too young to know the details but can email/write. Is this acceptable? Is this going to damage my daughter? Should I tell them simply in bulletpoint what she wants just to then have it thrown back in my face by them that their money is OK but they as people aren’t? If I send any form of text in any format this enables the line of communication to open which mentally I can’t afford to happen, but equally my DD shouldn’t need to know how toxic her grandparents can and have been.

I have to speak with them in April next year as we are tied financially.

That sounds a lot like me - my dad was an overt narc and I recently realised my mum's part as a covert narc. It's so exhausting. I don't get flashbacks as such but I get crippling bouts of anxiety and I have a constant fear of abandonment. When I read a book on complex PTSD, the author actually said that those were flashbacks - they are triggers of your memories, even if they don't manifest as replaying particular events. Thanks for the reading tips too. I will check out psilocybin too. Is it legal in this country? I have taken SSRIs before without them doing that much for my mood. Thank you again.

@Parishcouncil If, as is understandable, your parents are too toxic for you to deal with, surely it's not reasonable to expose them in any way to your DD?

You've written pages of notes about the things these people have done, your brother gaslights you, and your GP was concerned enough to see you within an hour of a call. This is very heavy stuff over a long long time, I would think best these people are kept far from your child.

Your DD can be told in an age-appropriate way that you are not communicating with her grandparents. Personally I don't see a problem with letting children know that there are people who don't behave kindly and that it is ok to distance oneself from them, I wish I had understood about my mother when my children were younger and protected them from her. Do you feel a kind of misplaced loyalty, perhaps guilt at speaking badly about them? Do you think they feel the same about you?

I would suggest you put yourself first in this situation, if it feels unsafe emotionally for you to have any contact with your FOO, then stay away.
Perhaps see if a 3rd party can help support you in April - or even step in for you.

You may find this article helpful Do Parents "Owe" Children a Grandparent, Even a Toxic One?, by Peg Streep, an author who has written several books about toxic mothers.

@Parishcouncil I think it's up to the grandparents to decide what to buy her, they can do their own research / ask around themselves.

Does your DD get on well with them?

@Findingithard43 yeah unfortunately narcissists do like to stick together. Why my parents bothered having kids I do not know.

Psilocybin is not legal, but it's fairly easy to get hold of these days. I'd start by asking your immediate network to see if anyone knows where to source x

@Escapingafter50years @Parishcouncil I agree on being open and honest to children about the reasons for NC, it's going to come out at some point, so best to drop feed age appropriately.

Parishcouncil

if your parents are too toxic/batshit/abusive for you to deal with, it’s the SAME deal for your child too. Do give her the age appropriate truth re her grandparents. From what you’ve previously written of them they are not emotionally safe enough to be in any form of contact with.

She is also relying on you to provide good judgment. Do not expose her to such people. Gifts from such people could also be used as a way of exerting control and are often loaded with heaps of obligation.

@Escapingafter50years @AttilaTheMeerkat @winningeasy
Thankyou for acknowledging & helping me see clearly. They have got inside my head & mucked me up so much I really don't know what's real, what's acceptable and what's what now. Had a disastrous call with the NHS mental health person yesterday that the GP referred me to ....she basically said I was too traumatised and my hurt was too complicated & deep that she felt unable to help me, so was taking my case to her supervisor for a chat to see how I could proceed. I'm so damaged and broken. Hate walking to and from school, hate leaving the house having to smile and say 'yeah fine thanks!' to that same old same old question, because what choice do I have?

I have to be OK.

That article you linked to really hit a nerve. I've always known I wasn't loved as much as my brother (albeit only ever shown privately when he wasn't around to witness it) but the word 'unloved' was incredibly hard to see in black print. Made it real. DD saw me cry yesterday and again asked why...I repeated that someone had made me sad & assuringly, she said "It was probably Uncle * again". But even about him I've always told her that he's not a bad person , it some things he did to me that made me sad.
I've not told her anything about her grandparents yet.

She liked doing arts & crafts with my 'mum' but hasn't asked to see them since the last time she was with them - from memory July. It was a strange dynamic between DD & Grandad. He would ask me and my 'mum' what he could do with her on visits to which my 'mum' would remind him he has no hobbies himself and doesn't get involved in anything my DD enjoys, at which point he would shoot everyone down. DD hasn't asked about them despite them being local-ish, 30-ish mins away.

I am most definitely the scapegoat, my 'brother' is absolutely the Golden Child, narcissistic triangulation has been in place as long as I can remember, my first memory age 6 was me being pitted against him with my aunt confirming many situations I thought I had imagined. The recent email from my sibling categorically confirms all of this & that was the wake-up call because it showed the absolute betrayal from my 'parents'. He relayed to me something they had told him....which was something they denied doing time and time again. Equally they had lied to him about something I allegedly claimed. And he believes them. This is what hurts the most. I've been robbed of a relationship with him, they never allowed me to bond with him. Everything they did was to make sure I didn't get close to him. He's been brainwashed, he'll never know my experience of the last 40 years. And I still kept quiet, I did what they ordered me to do, I stayed silent & said nothing, to protect him. He has no clue as to how many secrets I kept, the emotional punishments, the things I wanted to tell him, what I endured to ensure he had a 'good' relationship with them. But they are their own happy family and I've been silenced & ostracised. My life reads like a school report. "Your best wasn't good enough". "Could have tried harder".

My heart hurts. My head hurts. I've lost 41 years of me. I don't know who I am. So lost. A lost soul.

I have to ignore the email when it comes. there's no choice, you're right. In the past I would have replied out of guilt but now? Well now that I know they've betrayed me & purposely divided me off, there is no way forward.

They've shown who they are. It's my time to concentrate on my family now.

@Parishcouncil yes! Sounds like you have made a major breakthrough.

Sounds like DD isn't fussed, she can prob sense that they've not been good to her mummy, kids are intuitive... so I just see how things play out there and prob no need to proactively communicate on the dynamic until she asks, she will I am sure but by then things will have settled more for you and words come easier and gentler. By this time you'll feel better in yourself, because you've made a decision and you are taking the power back and focusing your energies in a healthy way/place.

Undoing intergenerational trauma is an heroic act. That is the gift we give our babies.

Remember, you are strong and you can do this! As you parent your little girl, take the time to parent yourself also, do something every day to nourish yourself... in the way we make sure our babies are fed, watered, warm, well slept, well presented (sometimes!!), hugged, educated, encouraged, inspired and entertained, do this for yourself. Often.

Remember we are all precious. And life is tricky, and we're all still here doing it.

Hugs xx

Hugs to everyone. It’s important to remember how brave and amazing we all are. Self-compassion is so important.

I didn’t have the greatest day yesterday. I had an unltrasound to get to the bottom of whatever is ailing my digestive system. Privatised company and I was basically treated like a piece of meat. It was appalling that I’m now complaining about it to my MP.

God knows what’s going on, but if it’s something sinister, I’ll get my head round it. My biggest fear is the Hag - MIL - knowing about it all and it becoming all about her. Mr Monkey has promised that she’s not going to know and if anything bad happens to me that she won’t be allowed to be the abusive bitch she is OR try and muscle in on his life or do any ridiculous martyr shit. She’s Fucking horrible.

Monkey

So very sorry to read about this.

If this procedure was done in a NHS hospital I would also suggest you contact PALS. It may well be worth also copying in your local Primary Care Trust.

You may want to read this as well:
www.england.nhs.uk/contact-us/complaint/

Parishcouncil

What winningeasy (nice name that and far better than the other one) wrote

Re your comment:
"They've shown who they are. It's my time to concentrate on my family now".

Correct, make this your mantra going forward.

💐to you all

Thanks @AttilaTheMeerkat i most certainly will. X

Hello

I think this thread may be the right place for me. I’ve suffered for years and I need someone to talk to who will understand. I suffered extreme emotional abuse as a child due to a narcissistic mother. This then turned into physical abuse and other awful situations.

To this day she tries to sabotage any part of my life that she can. My siblings are on her side because they know that if they aren’t they they could be the focus of her nastiness so they play the game to benefit themselves. One was the golden child the other was treated badly like me but has taken her side now . She has turned people against me and nobody believes me and I need somewhere to talk about this because I feel so upset

Hi @Damagedptsd Sadly you are one of many people badly affected by these women, if you read through this and other Stately Homes threads you will find so many stories that resonate with you. I'm no contact with my "mother" for over a year now and have been cut off by her side of the family. It still hurts, but not as much as I realise I have a lot more peace in my life now, I used to always be so stressed. This forum has been incredibly helpful, it's sad to know so many people are dealing with being so horrifically treated by the very woman who should nurture them no matter what, but also so supportive to know that so many people understand what you're going through.

There are 2 things that have particularly helped me, one is a book I bought by Lindsay C Gibson called Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents, I just found a free pdf www.ernstchan.xyz/b/src/1570719797-658.pdf
The other is an Instagram account called Understanding the Narc www.instagram.com/understandingthenarc/
Have a look, they may help you. I'd also recommend telling people the truth about your situation, I used to hide it and now I don't. You don't need to go into detail but it's amazing the support you can get once you start telling people you trust that you have had to put distance between yourself and your mother because her treatment of you is so hurtful to you.

I recently did start but nobody believes me. My mother has so carefully cultivated her public image and can manipulate others (plus has my siblings doing her dirty work too) so I can be totally discredited and it’s destroying me. Even when I’m NC with her I will hear from others what she’s doing or things will happen which she is responsible for. I’m sick of her games I can’t work out what she’s getting from it ??

Oh that's very hard for you @Damagedptsd Is this family or friends or both that don't believe you? Anyone* related to my "mother" couldn't believe that this sweet fun-loving gin-slinging old lady could be in any way hurtful and how could I leave her alone (I didn't, I offered to meet in a therapist's office, she ignored the suggestion). I also have steered clear of her friends.
But my friends, even those who wouldn't be super close friends, believe me. *I do have one relative who contacts me from time to time but I know she thinks I must be misunderstanding my "mother's" behaviour for over 50 years. I'm now at the point I won't have a discussion about my "mother" with her, just general chit-chat. This is much better for my mental wellbeing than going around in circles talking to someone who cares about me but cannot get their head around the idea that my "mother" is a nasty manipulative bitch. Way too many people can't believe someone behaves badly unless they see it for themselves.

I hope you have some friends or contacts who you can trust. If someone doesn't believe you, just walk away. It takes time to find out who is on your side but it's worth finding that out. Also worth reading up on boundaries, and what is acceptable treatment from another person and when you should step back. A year ago I didn't know which end of me was which, I was in shock, devastated, bereaved, you name it. While I have a long way to go yet, I have come a very long way. For me, having as much distance as possible (phone blocking as well as physical distance), between me and my "mother" and her family, has made a huge difference. Is it possible for you to do this?

I had just 3 people who knew and believed it because they either experienced it too or witnessed it. My dad but he passed away recently and my brother (but he has now picked dm side so won’t talk about it anymore) and my husband (dm once misjudged badly and tried to get him onside with her against me plus he had seen and heard things prior to that) so now I only have dh.

Everyone else thinks she so kind and lovely. She is so clever she will talk about me to others like she genuinely likes me so nobody ever hears her say anything negative but behind closed doors she was and is evil

I have found that to be emotionally safe and protected going NC with the individual isn’t enough. I have had to ensure zero info from SM and through 3rd parties. Even my good family and friends who are on my side - when they have come to tell me something negative with the intent of being supportive of me it always ends up hurting me eventually even if it’s just getting stuck ruminating, preoccupying and polluting my mind. It’s a negative distraction which is info I initially I want to vent and feel justified but it’s just keeps you connected and trapped with your head in the game.

When you end up preoccupied about a recent encounter or revelation - that’s precious and finite headspace, time and emotional energy that is being diverted away from positive experiences and people in your life. The satisfaction of hearing and gloating on something negative has consequences and payback for me.

So I don’t get into the futile battle of trying to redress and clear the smears - I have had to lose / avoid some family and friends whilst I recovered and I have had to say directly to the ones I am in contact with that I don’t want to know anything at all about X - because it will derail me emotionally eventually.

For me it’s about consciously nurturing other relationships that are mutual, respectful and either totally out of the orbit of X or with clear boundaries that we don’t talk about or I am not given any info about X. This fills me up positively emotionally so that I am less vulnerable to the deeply distressing memories.

My friends and family can judge me directly on my consistent dignified behaviour to them and not on the toxic words of another. It’s much slower than going into the he said / she said - but it’s more sustainable in the long run. I also don’t to fall into the triangulation trap of these relationships set by X.

I feel like I’m never going to be free of it, I can go NC I could even go to huge lengths to make sure no messages etc get back to me but still, I will know the plotting carries on , the desire to actively sabotage my life is so strong that I know she won’t be able to stop and I’m sick of that worry always hanging over me.

Why would anyone have a child to set out from day 1 to destroy them ? It doesn’t make sense and I feel like all the connections in my mind were wrongly formed due to early trauma, then childhood emotional abuse and instability then severe abuse as a teenager and then once I got away the active sabotage campaign started. I always thought if you ignore someone unkind they give up ? Not in this case - it’s just makes her more determined the more I ignore the worse she does