April 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It’s April 2022 and the Stately Home is still open to all comers.

Just wanted to clarify, I don't think necessarily that your children or your mum are missing out @Readingtoaster more that guilt makes us feel that they are missing out. But it may not be that case.

@Spotchnot the reasons still apply but pain fades and we forget how we feel - or no one would ever go to the dentist or give birth more than once if every time we remembered it it was as painful as the time it happened. She has tried to be in touch with the kids with a 'message' in the card that was for them (but really a threat for me) but nothing since Dec 21.

@TheNewlmprovedMrsMadEvans She has only met the kids twice due to living a long way and coronavirus but she treats them pretty much the same way she treats me - its all about her, she is a narcissist. She hasnt apologised as I asked her not to contact me and blocked her everywhere so short of writing to me she cant contact me. She will not understand why i did this and I presume she goes about her life the same way as before - all about her.

My therapist says I am mourning what I can probably never have. I just feel so sad she is missing out on her daughter and grandkids lives - but maybe she doesn't give two hoots - and this is why im going round and round at 3am!

Reading toaster

You are wise to keep both you and your kids away from your mother. Do not encourage a relationship between them and your mother. Such toxic people never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. If the other set of grandparents are nice, and importantly are emotionally healthy, then concentrate your efforts on them.

I was not altogether surprised to read that she has tried to contact your children via a card. Such behaviour is called Hoovering and is one tactic such people use against their chosen target. You were again wise not to fall for it.

Women like this cannot do relationships at all and it is really not possible to have a relationship with someone that disorder of thinking. She would harm your children in not too dissimilar ways as to how you’ve been harmed by her and would use them as supply. She could also favour one child over the other thus harming their sibling relationship.

You will indeed need to grieve for the relationship you should have had with your mother rather than the one you actually got.

Is your dad in your life at all?. I ask only as he is not mentioned.

@Readingtoaster - All those feelings you are describing are totally normal. I seem to remember posting on this thread years ago about how the guilt was eating me alive. @AttilaTheMeerkat was “tough love” advice all the way when I posted and it really helped me focus on the NC journey.

I went through a pattern for years of trying to go NC then feeling bad (because of all the toxic shit being sent my way), just as you say in your post, getting sucked back in with the same results and starting again. Toxic people just hoover you back in to the cesspit in order to continue their game.

The grandkids are better off without people like that in their lives. It won't bring anything good to them, or to you.

You are under NO PRESSURE to make any decisions. You are taking this one step at a time, and well done for that. But I would say from my experience, stay on that path, don’t go back. Cutting toxic people out of your life is a no-brainer. The only thing that messes with our brains is that we’re related to them.

Brand new here and this morning I’ve compiled a list of all negative situations, from my youngest memory to just this weekend gone. For some reason I feel I still need clarity & confirmation that this isn’t me ‘just being silly’.

Despite seeing it now in black & white in front of me & it being unquestionably clear, and Dr Ramani (thankyou for recommending her) telling me I would be questioning myself for being too sensitive and over-imaginative, there’s still a niggle of ‘maybe I am taking this too personally’.

Is this the norm?
Bad day today.

yes totally.
I am constantly on a pendulum swinging from one side to the other. Whilst I did have a reasonable childhood in some ways a few things have really messed me up.
I go from staring it straight in the face and seeing it clearly to suddenly thinking I am making it all up / exaggerating it etc etc.

Then the guilt makes me feel a terrible person for even thinking badly of my family who I love.
It is exhausting and I have no.idea how to get off the pendulum. So hugs of support to you x.

@Readingtoaster your children would be used as a route in to you. She is likely to play them off against you or each other. I honestly think narcs think they own people.

@Parishcouncil bad days are going to happen - you're dealing with loads of accumulated baggage. Abusers do a complete number on you to make everything you’re fault. I've found it useful to frame stepping away from the hag (toxic MIL) by thinking “I don't want my 50s to be like this’ Hag is 85 and could live to a ripe (miserable) old age and Mr Monkey are agreed in not having her toxicity ruin her prime.

@TheNewlmprovedMrsMadEvans thank you! Just landed back from GLORIOUS time in Wales with my sane family and my brother’s in laws. All of whom are lovely. My mum and DB’s mum get on like a house on fire. DB’s mum is 80, has had hip replacement, lost her husband and sister in close succession, she NEVER moans. Such a contrast to Hag MIL.

I get home and Mr Monkey says “my mum isn't coming her on sat during the day to see SIL and grandchildren. She thinks it will be too much for her”

AIRPUNCH.

What will be too much for her is her having to step over our threshold - last visit was in March 2021 - and see our happy home. AND ME

I think she realises she's not remotely welcome here. Brother’s wife said: make sure your re-done spareroom’s door is firmly locked.

AM SO HAPPY THAT SHE’S NOT COMING. just 2 meals to get through. Wine on a drip.

New here. Back from visiting parents. I feel completely destroyed. I was so angry. Long story. My sibling was rude and when I asked them "please don't speak to me like that", they flipped completely. Throw a chopping board and screamed blue murder. My child was in the next room who was screaming with fear. The argument came from me trying to explain that asserting a boundary wasn't aggressive. They said I was rude, abrupt and on and on and I said, how am I being criticised when I am not the one who terrified a child? The sibling didn't apologise. Stormed out. Said there was no point talking cos it doesn't go anywhere. I feel utterly shit. I live a long way away and haven't been in close contact since I was 21, seeing them every few months. Every so often we seem to have huge blow outs and I am exhausted by it. I've deleted the siblings number, I wouldn't choose them as a friend. If you've made it this far, my mother emailed my OH and explained in great long detail what happened. The gist being that I had not let anyone get a word in edge ways. No reference to my child and the fear they experienced.

So sorry to read what happened to you and your child.

Did they invite you? Never visit your parents ever again and go complete radio silence. They have not changed and such toxic people never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions.

They’ve emailed your OH here because they regard that person as a weak link and hope to use them to get back at you. This person in addition to blocking your mothers access via email must not fall for such hoovering attempts to draw you back into their dysfunctional world. I would read about DARVO as that was done against you by your parents and sibling (likely to be the more favoured sibling anyway). I sincerely hope that your OH here is fully supportive of you.

You will need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got. It’s not your fault they are like this and you did not make them that way.

I went down as I usually have a nice time. My mother has also been diagnosed with cancer. My OH is supportive and says he is fed up of this pattern. I do not understand how it explodes nor why the same scripts come out time and time again. I feel like a totally different version of "me" and I'm really questioning myself and my ability to "be". What is DARVO?

I wasn't an easy child or teenager, growing up. I've accepted that and apologised yet I never feel as if they accept me. My OH wonders if its almost a PTSD reaction that traps us in a loop playing over and over. My sibling had an eating disorder. We are both us, struggling with mental health issues. It feels so utterly toxic. All I wanted or needed was an apology that breaking things and screaming and swearing was out of order but instead my mother was adamant there is more than one side to the story so it becomes how I speak too much, don't let people get a word in edgeways and then I end up feeling so overwhelmed I lose control. And now I am here, feeling tainted somehow. Like I can't figure out what I'm meant to be.

I'm starting to wonder if I'm the narcissistic person, a manipulator, it feels as if they think I am.

No its not you, its them. You were likely not a "difficult child" when you were younger; you were pretty much normal. Its not your fault you were born into such an emotionally unhealthy and abusive family. People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles; what were and are your roles here?.

DARVO meaning “Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender,” summarizes a consistent reaction and manipulation tactic used by perpetrators of abuse or other types of wrongdoing. It works by shifting the focus away from the original issue and attacking the actual victim. It attempts to switch the roles of victim and perpetrator to allow the actual offender to receive sympathy and compassion, publicly or privately, as well as to avoid consequences for their actions. This form of manipulation is powerful with lasting effects on the victim.

Think your OH is right re the PTSD loop.

@Fritilleries I wondered the same about myself. From what I've read on here and elsewhere it's common for people who have had dysfunctional families to think that but people who are truly narcissistic wouldn't. I guess we all do have traits at some level and learnt behaviour but i doubt very much its you.

You will never get an apology or acknowledgment from these people.

Any interaction just gives them the opportunity to double down, then DARVO so that you get wounded deeper and are left more frustrated, confused and overwhelmed than before.

These people are not the source of your healing and personal growth. They are the opposite more hurt and emotional regression - keeping you / dragging you back to the child state and that dysfunctional dynamic.

You need to take responsibility for seeking that elsewhere with professional support.

Many of us are aware that our unresolved childhood wounds (and more so if they are continually provoked) cause us pain, emotional dysregulation and not surprisingly distorted thinking and possibly behaviour under stress - “hurt people, hurt people” ….. I will hold my hands up and say that prior to my therapy my poor emotional resilience and compromised MH due to childhood trauma saw me lose perspective, have a short fuse and behave sub optimally at times. Explains it doesn’t excuse it. I am aware more of my fragile emotional state and work to strengthen it and protect myself so that I can become more emotionally stable. And exposure or engagement with the people who caused the damage doesn’t serve this.

@AttilaTheMeerkat to answer your question my father is in bad health and remarried. We don't see him much at all as again he lives a long way away.

@Sicario thanks for taking the time and trouble to post. If I reinitiated contact I don't think I could go NC again as I think that's disingenuous and would mean she wouldn't give two hoots as I would resume contact at some point. You have reminded me though that at uni i was so broke (as I had left home therefore not supported....) that i couldn't contact her for 2 weeks. She eventually called me to ask me where I had hidden something of her sisters - always about her...! Not hey not heard from you for 2 weeks or anything like that!

I certainly plan on staying on this path until I have at least spoken a little more to my therapist and we have moved on - i think the holidays don't help but when school and nursery start again it will help immensely with my thoughts.

I just see my kids changing every day into funny clever sweet folk and I feel so guilty that i have made her miss all of the last year of their life.

@MonkeyfromManchester thank you.

Right I am away to peer anxiously at the wood pile. We got a woodburnera while ago and it seems to eat wood at a frightening rate! We got up for a festival this morning for the second day running so of course the wee one is now asleep having a nice 2 hour danger nap!

Well, The Hag isn't here. She didn't change her mind and pop round to glower on the sofa. She's seething in her flat instead.

SIL and her beautiful sons (21 and 17) are sitting in the garden being lovely. The absence of Hag and MM’s toxic golden child brother (whereabouts unknown making no contribution to his sons, despite selling his business for £2 million) in their lives has made them into lovely well-adjusted young men. Golden Child is still golden child and Hag often talks of not meeting her granddaughter who’s the product of yet another one of his affairs. That seems to not matter one jot to her.

We will see her at 7pm.

SIL just told the story of the Hag babysitting the boys and DESPITE being told which yoghurt brand - the only one - the eldest boy isn’t seriously allergic to gave him a cheap brand and he had a serious anaphylactic shock cos she knows BEST.

“I’m never babysitting him again” like it wasn’t her responsibility.

She’s a fucking witch.

I hope that you all can have a lovely time with SIL and DN and not let Hag antics and memories overshadow it and that your relationship with these lovely people will flourish for decades to come (when H will be 6 feet under).

Readingtoaster

Would urge you not to feel guilty, this is as a result of the special training you’ve received at your mothers hands to put her first with your own needs dead last. You are protecting your children here from Bad Things.

Do you think your mother feels any guilt or remorse here, no she does not.

THE FUCKING HAG. I just have to write it.

I've just walked into our glass (closed) patio doors and burst into tears because I'm so stressed.

Over dinner last night she behaved really appallingly so I drank half a bottle of wine, two limencellos, came home and drank a bottle of wine and had some whiskeys. Feel like death warmed up.

Am now going out to meet SIL and nephews, we will have lunch at 4pm with the bitch and I've just told MM that after this I never want to see her again. He's agreed that after last night he's never taking her out again.

I just don’t get why someone would get off on being so hurtful and vile to people. It's not “age”, it's someone who's sick in the head. I just want her dead.

I didn't drink any alcohol last night but woke up from a looping nightmare of the arguments that reduced me to a sobbing mess while at my parents. Trying really hard to stop ruminating but it's a run away train.

@MonkeyfromManchester
I'm really sorry to hear The Hag had upset you so much.
It sounds as though this might be the last time you have to deal with her and MM can see her for exactly what she is.

Hope you have a better rest of day.

@MonkeyfromManchester im so sorry. I also drink more than i think I should and @Fritilleries this is usually to stop the nightmares I wake up from. I am so anxious when I wake. Its like the 'old me' in the dreams, constantly anxious and searching for stuff i cant find.

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you as always you helped me so much before

@MonkeyfromManchester I wish she was dead too - not that I wish anything against her - i don't care enough but it would mean that the never ending loop in my head could finally STOP. I know what you are saying.