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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

April 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

1000 replies

AttilaTheMeerkat · 17/04/2022 00:42

It’s April 2022 and the Stately Home is still open to all comers.

OP posts:
TheNewlmprovedMrsMadEvans · 11/07/2022 18:23

MonkeyfromManchester · 11/07/2022 17:36

@TheNewlmprovedMrsMadEvans it is about grieving a relationship and is even harder when it’s your own family. I can see that’s what Mr Monkey is doing - well, he’s grieving for his childhood as he’s given up on thinking his relationship with the Hag could be a good one. I hope you find peace. Good to know you’ve had a lot of support here. This place has given me space to work out my MIL’s behaviour, become stronger and support MM.

Thank you Monkey Smile
Your poor Dh Sad . l have lurked here for ages and seen how badly he has been treated by his Mother. You are a great support to him and have a great insight into the toxicity. Your own family are lovely l am glad you have them behind you Flowers

chatterbug22 · 13/07/2022 11:05

@TheNewlmprovedMrsMadEvans I have heard about grey rock but just find it very hard in practice as it feeds into something they both say which plays on me… they are very ‘concerned’ because it doesn’t look like I am having fun or making the most of my life. If I give short answers it will feed into their narrative that I must not be happy with my life. They say they are caring but it doesn’t feel that way. If I say that, I am ‘twisting’ things and looking for the bad in people. Exhausting.

Gosh, I can imagine your situation was tricky. Was it both your sister and her partner? How did your parents react?

I’m just struggling with it because I feel as if something is going to be referenced at the wedding or on the night before (everyone’s staying for two nights) about how I haven’t been there for the preparation of it. In truth, I haven’t and I do not feel as excited as I wish I could be because I cannot see how the event will go by without drama.

Me and my partner are still unsure about whether or not he should go. I would feel rubbish if I were to go alone and he wants to be there to support me but I don’t want to be in the horrible, uncomfortable situation which may well be him being left out of photos, ignored, or worse on the receiving end of any behaviour from her. I’d like to think it wouldn’t be like that on her actual day itself but I can’t be sure. I have lots of thoughts swirling round- extended family will find it strange if we don’t go, if she is unpleasant and it makes either me or OH uncomfortable we literally cannot leave once we are there, as that’s so much worse isn’t it.

TheNewlmprovedMrsMadEvans · 14/07/2022 14:04

@chatterbug22 yes it was the two of them . My Mother defends them to the hilt and my Father is on the fence .
Can l be absolutely honest with you and say l think you are going to be in for an awful time. Can you pretend you have Covid to get out of it ? I am afraid l wouldn't be going not after all that l know about my lot now 😱😭

IAAP · 17/07/2022 16:11

I’ve been following you all my God we deal with some shit don’t we?

Its been 5 months since I came face to face with my mother locally in a shop and she blanked me. It’s been 18 months since I saw my father and said hello only for him to nod and turn away. It’s been a year of them ignoring the children, no contact at Christmas or their birthdays etc two birthdays by the eldest ignored.
I did say texts etc and they were all ignored.
Ive had a year of trauma counselling.

NC by them is killing me - it’s made me ill l. Counselling made me see it was trauma bonding but it hasn’t fixed it.

I just want to go there (they are there and say hi please give all
the stuff you refused to return to charity it’s 👌 we don’t want or need it) I want to say to my mother - you decision to never speak to me again is your choice and that’s ok I accept it.
I would really like a photo of my maternal grandparents who I loved That’s all and of course a secret apology but I won’t get one of those

I know many will say don’t bother, don’t get rejected again just don’t do it but I need to

pathetic aren’t I

AttilaTheMeerkat · 17/07/2022 16:42

IAAP

No you are not pathetic, not at all. You remain trauma bonded and in a fear, obligation and guilt state. You also remain hopeful your parents will behave better going forward despite your experiences (and there are numerous posts of their utterly reprehensible behaviour towards you and your kids in the Stately Homes archives) to the contrary.

Such hope of them changing keeps you trapped and ultimately you are going to have to let go of all and any residual hope they will change. Appealing to these serial abusers better nature is a waste of time because they do not have one. There is no good reason to speak to either of them because it will get you nowhere and in addition will put your recovery from their abuses of you back years. They've likely hung onto your stuff as some form of leverage which they would still hope to use again you.

Is there another way you can get a copy of a photo of your maternal grandparents for instance via something like a family tree website?.

Its still not your fault they are like this and you did not make them that way either.

OP posts:
IAAP · 17/07/2022 19:46

Thank you. I’ve taken some beta blockers as a panic attack was looming and I just felt upset.

i don’t even want to see them all the time a phone call every couple of months would be ok

IAAP · 17/07/2022 19:47

My mother was estranged from her sister for 40 years and she died at 50.
so in short - no.

TheNewlmprovedMrsMadEvans · 17/07/2022 19:51

IAAP l know you want closure but imho you will never get it . At least that is the conclusion l have come to in my own circumstances. I have been years wanting my Sister, Brother and their partners to say sorry and to realise how horrible they have been and for us all to be friends again but l realise now they have branded me as the bad person and l will never get any closure apology or decent behaviour from them. They are all evil ppl. I take comfort from the fact l still have my own little family unit intact because they tried to poisonmy daughters against me but they saw it and went NC too . I am so sorry you have to go through this pain , it's soul destroying Flowers

KatharineofAragon · 17/07/2022 22:37

Jus treading this thread and learning a lot.

I want to say that this jumped out at me:

TheNewlmprovedMrsMadEvans I have heard about grey rock but just find it very hard in practice as it feeds into something they both say which plays on me… they are very ‘concerned’ because it doesn’t look like I am having fun or making the most of my life. If I give short answers it will feed into their narrative that I must not be happy with my life. They say they are caring but it doesn’t feel that way. If I say that, I am ‘twisting’ things and looking for the bad in people. Exhausting.

Word for word this is exactly my experience in my family. It’s so demoralising.

Also need to learn about trauma bonding.

TreePoser · 17/07/2022 22:46

It's so hard but you have to learn to live with their low opinion of you.

I type that like it's easy but my parents thought I was paranoid, I objected, I was labelled sensitive, I pointed out (angrily) that this was a catch 22 situation and I was silenced haughtily, they were the martyrs, the victims of me, that made me angrier, I kept trying to be logical and communicate the double standards etc and they kept shutting me down and labelling me angry. I couldn't cope with their perception of me as paranoid so they have not done anything to improve our relationship by labelling me sensitive, angry, detached from reality, entitled, insane............. the list just goes on and on. I cannot win. I cannot get out of this trap where I defend myself against the previous 'charge' and get another label.

But the point is, after two and half years of this, I'm starting to be able to cope with their low opinion of me. It hurts less. A bit less. It's not what you'd want, but peace is what you really want.

If they think you're boring but you can feel more peace, value the peace more highly than their opinions of you.

chatterbug22 · 17/07/2022 23:27

@KatharineofAragon thats really interesting. Is it your mum and sister too?

For ages, I felt like something was wrong with me and was almost even convinced that my life was boring because of what they were saying, they felt so sorry for me… I was starting to feel sorry for myself whilst being perfectly happy! It made no sense to me and I’m still working through it and why.

Sicario · 18/07/2022 09:40

A strange and unexpected form of validation has started creeping out of the woodwork since my mother died some weeks ago. I had a call from my toxic BIL's oldest friend who I haven't seen for years. He is the very last person to say anything bad about anyone, but he told me that he and his wife want nothing more to do with my toxic sister and her husband. They too have been on the receiving end of their shitty behaviour and have had enough.

I was totally open about how appallingly they had behaved after mum died. No funeral. No flowers. Cutting me and all the grandkids out. Removing me as executor. He said they were shocked, but not surprised.

Then another call from another friend of theirs, saying pretty much the same.

The validation? That we at the stately homes are not mad when we perceive these awful manipulative behaviours. It's not us, it's them. Other people see it clearly, but don't say anything.

Anyway. After receiving yet another shitty one-sentence email from toxic sister, I told her to go fuck herself and that I never want to see her or BIL again.

I am however going to send a missive at some point to remind them of their duties as executors, including a full set of accounts (they've been living out of my mother's bank account for years). I expect they've been very busy shredding the evidence. I'm very tempted to engage a solicitor to do it, just to cause them maximum stress.

Revenge is a dish best served on legal letterhead.

chatterbug22 · 18/07/2022 10:51

@Sicario it must have felt so much better to actually hear someone say it! I’m glad you’ve made peace with it

chatterbug22 · 18/07/2022 10:54

So, sister wants to meet me for a coffee. The wedding is at the weekend.

All of me feels obliged but I am genuinely very busy with work and feel intimidated in her presence after everything that’s happened. She has already said I’ve changed her outlook on her own wedding / contributed to her not being as excited for it. I feel like if I don’t go and meet her this week there will be drama that I was uninvolved and didn’t care, but if I do, I don’t know how I’ll bite my tongue.

Sicario · 18/07/2022 11:13

I feel your pain @chatterbug22 - it's like getting caught up in a spider's web. Whichever way you move it will cause ructions.

What would happen if you said you don't have time for coffee this week but you could have a chat on the phone?

Whatever you decide about whether or not to attend the wedding, and who exactly will go, you already know that there will be drama. Your sister NEEDS the drama, so she will make it regardless of what you decide. Weddings are brilliant supply to dramatic people.

chatterbug22 · 18/07/2022 11:21

@Sicario exactly. No, it’ll cause drama if I don’t go and meet her. But if I do and I have to walk away / say something I regret before the actual day, that’ll be 100 times worse. My mum is putting a lot of pressure on too saying it’s unforgivable how I am being, and I am very easily swayed by other people’s guilt trips.

DFOD · 18/07/2022 13:17

chatterbug22 · 13/07/2022 11:05

@TheNewlmprovedMrsMadEvans I have heard about grey rock but just find it very hard in practice as it feeds into something they both say which plays on me… they are very ‘concerned’ because it doesn’t look like I am having fun or making the most of my life. If I give short answers it will feed into their narrative that I must not be happy with my life. They say they are caring but it doesn’t feel that way. If I say that, I am ‘twisting’ things and looking for the bad in people. Exhausting.

Gosh, I can imagine your situation was tricky. Was it both your sister and her partner? How did your parents react?

I’m just struggling with it because I feel as if something is going to be referenced at the wedding or on the night before (everyone’s staying for two nights) about how I haven’t been there for the preparation of it. In truth, I haven’t and I do not feel as excited as I wish I could be because I cannot see how the event will go by without drama.

Me and my partner are still unsure about whether or not he should go. I would feel rubbish if I were to go alone and he wants to be there to support me but I don’t want to be in the horrible, uncomfortable situation which may well be him being left out of photos, ignored, or worse on the receiving end of any behaviour from her. I’d like to think it wouldn’t be like that on her actual day itself but I can’t be sure. I have lots of thoughts swirling round- extended family will find it strange if we don’t go, if she is unpleasant and it makes either me or OH uncomfortable we literally cannot leave once we are there, as that’s so much worse isn’t it.

Covid is your friend for both obligations…..

Fake the test.

Don’t put yourself through it - both coffee and wedding.

But also don’t hand her the bullets to shoot you with (rising to the bait, saying anything as everything will be twisted, sitting at the wedding with her controlling, smearing and abusing you) - take yourself out of punching distance.

Never act in FOG - fear obligation guilt - it’s always wrong and will back fire.

Stick to your core values - protect your emotional self but do it my stealth - silence and dignity. Don’t give them what then want - a reaction either submission or irritation.

IAAP · 18/07/2022 17:17

I’ve calmed down a lot since yesterday but passed them again today.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 18/07/2022 17:24

Hi Chatterbug

What both Sicario and DFOD wrote here.

re your comment
"My mum is putting a lot of pressure on too saying it’s unforgivable how I am being, and I am very easily swayed by other people’s guilt trips".

I would also start to further distance from your mother too who is stirring things for her own amusement. She does not say that about her other daughter does she and both she and your mother will love and otherwise live for the drama. You're still very much the scapegoat here in this family and your dad being both the bystander and his wife's willing enabler cannot be relied upon either.

I would also use covid here as a reason to sidestep this coffee invite/summons and wedding.

OP posts:
54isanopendoor · 19/07/2022 09:36

Can I say 'Hello' please?

I am going through the aftermath of my genuniely Narcissitic Mother's death (& the ramifications from all her trained soldiers). I've had a thread or two on MN about legal things & that advice has been helpful but now it's more emotional & strength not to react to the soldiers 'baiting' so someone suggested I come here.

I will post more background in coming days but suffice, for now, to say that a person who has ignored me for 30 years (including not inviting me to the 'farewell drinks' for my Mother despite the fact I'd travelled 350m especially - they lied & said it wasn't happening, when I called them out on it they said it was 'for Faaaaammmmmmily only'.... so, what am I then ???
Well, that person just sent my disabled child a Birthday card, perfectly on time for their birthday with a kind personal message.
WTAF ???

I have to take my child out for a 3 day summer school type thing so won't be on much but I will get back asap. I think I just need someone to say: 'yes, we understand, it's not just a card - it's SO much more than a card' (thinks of that scene with Rowan Atkinson in Love Actually where he wraps the necklace)

chatterbug22 · 19/07/2022 09:51

@54isanopendoor

Completely understand and sending love. Seems like they’re making a point to be spiteful. I know it’s not easy!

chatterbug22 · 19/07/2022 09:53

@TheNewlmprovedMrsMadEvans @AttilaTheMeerkat @MonkeyfromManchester so, in the latest update since I declined to meet my sister for coffee she has sent me a message this morning saying that she has something she needs to talk to me about before the wedding, not about mine and her relationship, and needs to meet me to talk about it.

She is refusing to say what it is over text. I am worried it’s a bit of a trap. Hoping I am wrong and that it is some nice news, e.g that she’s pregnant. What would you take from the message?

KatharineofAragon · 19/07/2022 10:01

TreePoser · 17/07/2022 22:46

It's so hard but you have to learn to live with their low opinion of you.

I type that like it's easy but my parents thought I was paranoid, I objected, I was labelled sensitive, I pointed out (angrily) that this was a catch 22 situation and I was silenced haughtily, they were the martyrs, the victims of me, that made me angrier, I kept trying to be logical and communicate the double standards etc and they kept shutting me down and labelling me angry. I couldn't cope with their perception of me as paranoid so they have not done anything to improve our relationship by labelling me sensitive, angry, detached from reality, entitled, insane............. the list just goes on and on. I cannot win. I cannot get out of this trap where I defend myself against the previous 'charge' and get another label.

But the point is, after two and half years of this, I'm starting to be able to cope with their low opinion of me. It hurts less. A bit less. It's not what you'd want, but peace is what you really want.

If they think you're boring but you can feel more peace, value the peace more highly than their opinions of you.

Yes. Exactly this. I am in the same situation.

KatharineofAragon · 19/07/2022 10:06

chatterbug22 · 17/07/2022 23:27

@KatharineofAragon thats really interesting. Is it your mum and sister too?

For ages, I felt like something was wrong with me and was almost even convinced that my life was boring because of what they were saying, they felt so sorry for me… I was starting to feel sorry for myself whilst being perfectly happy! It made no sense to me and I’m still working through it and why.

Yes it is my mother and sister. Interesting isn’t it?
neither of them seems to want me to be happy. They like to see me as a ‘problem’ that they can discuss with each other. My mother will never say anything nice like ‘you look great, you’ve lost weight’. It will be ‘you need to lose weight’. If I have a holiday she will not ask anything about it. Just tell me what she’s been doing . They are both classic narcissists. I’m sure they tell each other I’m one though.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 19/07/2022 10:19

Chatterbug

Your sister cannot be at all trusted here; of course she could tell you this "important piece of information" and for reasons known to her she wants to tell you directly. I would stand firm and still not meet her beforehand.

Keeping people ‘in the dark’ (withholding information deliberately) is one of the narcissist’s favourite tactics, because when others are second-guessing themselves or their reality, they become easier to control and manipulate.
Confusion and doubt distract the chosen target and limit their chance of ever finding out who they’re dealing with and what’s really going on.
This unsuspecting person (i.e you here in this case) is usually the last to know (or believe) they’re being set up by someone who uses others to get what they want.

Are you still planning on being her bridesmaid?.

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