April 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It’s April 2022 and the Stately Home is still open to all comers.

@Escapingafter50years thank you, you talk a lot of sense.

DM has finally messaged me asking if I’m coming to the final dressing fitting appt but she can ‘guess’ my answer. She knows I’m working this weekend and I can’t change that. Honestly as I’ve said before though I can’t see any traits in her, she is a people pleaser by her own admission and very sensitive, wants to keep the peace etc and ‘fix’ everything. It is out of character to side with my sister but my sister is very convincing and fits the definition for covert perfectly.

I’m looking into counselling, thank you. I think it would definitely be beneficial. it’s just difficult as they will never ever accept accountability in the slightest. At all.

I worry that when me and DSis have children, our parents will favour her children over mine. DSis is 6 years older than me and considering it immediately as most do after their wedding. I don’t think I want to be her age when having my first and we will probably start considering it in a couple of years, which again I think will be judged.

There is a lot of that ‘you’re not yourself, you don’t look after yourself, you don’t make the most of your young beautiful self’ etc speech that goes on in my family. It is bizarre as I’ve never felt better self care wise, achievements wise. My mum and DSis don’t like my partner but it has come from my sister originally, and as a consequence he now does not like them because he sees how upset I have been recently on the receiving end of things. Again I think my mum is very impressionable and seems to copy my sister rather than the other way around, and nobody has ever or will ever challenge my sister for dominating the whole family dynamic. Much easier to assign the blame to me. I will never understand but hey ho!!!

@MonkeyfromManchester thank you, your insight has really helped xx

@MonkeyfromManchester @AttilaTheMeerkat DM has now messaged me to say she is having the ‘worst week ever’ - in reference to this. I don’t want to seem harsh and uncaring but I’ve just said, oh dear, hope you feel better soon. And left it at that. Feels like a big guilt trip really.

@chatterbug22 that’s designed to guilt trip you as you know. Good reply. Don’t feel uncaring because you’re not. X

@MonkeyfromManchester thank you, thought so. How long has it been ongoing for for you?

All his life for Mr Monkey - he’s 53 - he endured terrible physical and emotional abuse from her. Physical abuse stopped when he was a teenager but she would still throw things. Emotional abuse continues. He has PTSD.

For me? She’s never liked me (I’m a rival and I’m astute) covertly, but her gloves are off now since she spent 10 TERRIBLE weeks living with us at different points over the last two years with an aim to be dominant and live here. She knew we wanted her out. MM and I were on the same page about her going. She knows I’ve empowered MM to stand up to her, although his wish to do so has been there all his life. She loathes me, but I’ve gone NC. I don’t answer our landline, she’s blocked on my phone and I simply do nothing for her. It’s GREAT. I got so much support here to do this.

@MonkeyfromManchester it sounds so tough especially if it’s been all his life. I’m glad you’re getting somewhere with it. I bet living with her was immensely hard all things considered and probably wouldn’t have helped!

DSis has now declared in front of me her wedding is the last my grandma will live to see. Grandma is 90 to be fair, but I am in a committed relationship of a couple of years and so are a few of our cousins of similar age, why on earth would anyone even be thinking like that? I despair with it. My DM looked shocked but didn’t say anything. I really just can’t handle how entitled the whole dynamic is.

Me and OH still can’t decide whether it’s worth him coming to the wedding, he wants to, for me, but that’s about as far as it goes. I can imagine her excluding him from photos and possibly being ruder still. I hope she wouldn’t but all past encounters suggest she would. I don’t want there to be any risk she’d turn around and blame me/us/him for something going wrong on the day, even though we would not be causing anything at all. Though surely, extended family would see the behaviour if that were the case?

I’ve already been told that me stepping back has severely affected her view of her own wedding and 2022.

re your comment
"I’ve already been told that me stepping back has severely affected her view of her own wedding and 2022"

Really?!. I presume this is your sister making such a pronouncement.

This is yet more guilt tripping from these people but she has seemingly not told you she does not want you any longer to be her bridesmaid. Sod what your sister thinks because she and your mother are facilitating each other. This further stops your mother from facing her own issues, not that she ever wants to confront those anyway. Note how your mother has again not done anything to defend you or to take her other daughter to task. Your dad cannot be relied upon because he is both his wife's enabler and bystander to this whole dysfunctional dynamic. And you are correct; this same dynamic will be played out going forward as well with your DC being scapegoated with your sister's children being more favoured.

re this comment;
"I don’t want there to be any risk she’d turn around and blame me/us/him for something going wrong on the day, even though we would not be causing anything at all. Though surely, extended family would see the behaviour if that were the case?"

You and your man will be blamed and bad mouthed regardless whether you are at their wedding or not. He will certainly be cut out of the wedding photos. Re your extended family I would say not necessarily although one or two of them may harbour their own private based thoughts. These people do not want to necessarily become targeted themselves and could further act as "flying monkeys". Such people are not interested in hearing your side of things and have their own agenda so their opinion should be ignored.

The best thing to do with your family (and its not your fault they are like this either) is to back away completely. Its not possible to have a relationship with people this disordered of thinking and ultimately you need to adopt a no contact position with them.

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you, yes it came from her. It’s a huge guilt trip and I do think my dad sees it but it’s a lot easier to stay quiet.

I don’t even want to go at this point, I am really on edge over the whole thing and will be relieved when it’s over. I want her to have a lovely day but she’s put me/us through so much. Concerned that there will be drama and how to deal with it if there is, considering absolutely no one can call her out on that day at all so she can get away with whatever behaviour she wants. I don’t know why she has to be like this and hold out hope that one day it will change.

He'd rather stay quiet also out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. He cannot be relied upon and will throw you under the bus to save being himself targeted by his other daughter. He is truly a weak bystander of a man.

I would not attend this under any circumstances; you know its all going to kick off somehow and your dad will still remain silent and complicit.

I am so sorry to write this as well but disordered of thinking people like your sister in particular do not change. All you can do is change how you react to her and its not possible to have a relationship with someone like her anyway. You're also going to have to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got.

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you, appreciate your insight so much

So, we went over to my parents the other night as my dad sent me a WhatsApp and invited us to their garden for a drink. We didn’t stop long as we were on the way to get dinner, I stuck with water and partner had a beer with my dad and they had a good catch up and chatted about all sorts.

My mum was finishing up work inside and came out after we arrived, and sat at the other end of the garden without saying a word to us. Eventually she came over but was just smiling away, yawning/checking her watch very frequently and staring at me solidly when OH and DF were talking amongst themselves. I stared back and gave a smile but there was clearly an issue as she didn’t break eye contact/nor look away.

Has only contacted me once in 7 days and that was about the wedding, which is very out of character for her, that’s because this time a week ago I told her the reasons why I was taking a step back from DSis and that she enabled it. Ho hum!! I feel so much better that my dad remains normal and doesn’t appear to be playing the same silly games

@chatterbug22 I’m really glad your dad likes your partner, but your dad doesn’t call the shots as I understand it, your sister and your mum do. it’s really hard, but you need to step away from your mum and not engage with the BS. Don’t get puzzled by the lack of contact. It’s pretty deliberate mind games you were experiencing there designed to bring you to heel. Ignore it, give a wide berth, and concentrate on your own happiness.

I’m OK. Did some stuff with my mum. Booked the apartment for my SIL and nephews. I’ll do a lunch with Mr Monkey’s family and The Hag, but that’s it. I’m not doing the pretend happy family bollocks. She’s whining about getting new clothes - she looks like a tramp and is actually dirty - and I can’t even work out what this BS is about any more. Eliciting sympathy? The martyr act? No idea. Passed caring. Mr Monkey used to want help (guilt), now it’s a brisk “well, you know what to do” and cuts the whining short.

p

@MonkeyfromManchester It's the only way to be. I'm the same age as your husband, 53, and I'm finally learning to drop the rope. I'm also being treated for C-PTSD so I know how hard it is not only for your husband, but for you too.

I've posted before how my version of this thread's title 'well we took you to stately homes" is "well we took you around the world"... very long story short, my family followed my father around the world due to his work (not military). Most of the places we went to were what were then called 'third world' countries...but we did go to some nice places too.

However, it was all too stressful and just too much change for young children. One memorable year we changed countries, schools etc 4 times. For me now, all that has forever tainted all the so-called 'good' stuff. What should have been good experiences were tainted by all the stressful crap going on behind the scenes.

I find it hard to make people understand that. All they can see is the glitter - "ooh you got to set Mt Everest when you were 10!" - yes and then had to go back to having no schooling, friends, pets, extended family or even decent food for 3 long years ... it was never worth it.

@noirchatsdeux
I totally understand. we only moved around within this country and I feel it has made me a person unable to deal with change at all as an adult.Every time I built a new life and made friends and dared to be happy it was all ripped away from me and I had to start again.
I am late 50s now and my whole life I have been scared to even be happy and feel settled anymore because the fear of loss is so overwhelming.
We moved around due to my fathers career as well and if I tried to tell them how I felt as a child about moving it was shot down by telling me how ungrateful I was , how all the sacrifices were for us children blah blah. In fact I was silenced by that emotional blackmail if ever I was unhappy, afraid , sad etc.
It has seriously messed up my head because I had a nice middle class upbringing but I just seem to be unable to be truly happy.

Attila you are so right . I remember you telling me this about 2 years ago and at the time l really was in shock and couldn't even contemplate going NC with my sister and her DH . I just couldn't do it but her behaviour became untenable and l had to go NC. I realize too about you saying we have to grieve the relationship between us. I am so very sad on times . However l will never ever be in. Contact with her again . She has thrown me under the bus with having to look after my elderly parents and l can never forgive her for doing that . If my sister was now getting married like Chatterbug then l wouldn't be going . If you go it is all your fault and if you don't go it is all your fault 😭.
You get in the end that you just don't want to have anything to do with them because they twist everything you say or do . I honestly loved my sister . I worshipped her l was so loyal to her and yet she treated me so badly , backstabbed me to my family and smeared me but l overheard it and couldn't believe that my sister thought and talked about me like that . I was devastated and done days l still am . It takes a long time to cope and an even longer time to grieve . Thank you for being such a mainstay here it means a lot ❤️

Chatterbug l am so sorry you were treated so badly by your Mother the other not get . Her reactions to you and your partner did make me wonder if she is a covert narcissist too tbh . Forgive me if I am wrong 💐

@TheNewlmprovedMrsMadEvans

I never thought it but the more I’ve spoken to people that have been through similar and listened to self help podcasts, I see a lot of traits. Today I’ve been told by DM that I am ‘holding grudges’, ‘paint my sister out to be some evil kind of monster’, I am apparently ‘demonising’ my DM when I have simply but clearly stated the boundary. Apparently I am hostile and she isn’t engaging in this vitriol.

Makes me feel crazy. All I’ve done is try and step back from my DSis, who sounds similar tbh to your situation. Very very subtle about it. Will tell everyone how deeply she cares for me, buy me presents (which I know now to be hoovering) but behind the scenes she has pushed me over, blocked me on social media, accused me of destroying the sister relationship… I have affected her view on her own wedding apparently. She pretends as if OH doesn’t exist. Cannot put into words how unhealthy it has felt. I have even started to feel like the issue is all me, that I interpret things wrong, that I ‘look for trouble’ which is what she says I do. They both seem to blame my partner for the reason I call their behaviour out. I am even wondering if it’s me with the narc traits.

I cannot fathom why anyone would behave this way, we’ve both had the same upbringing. DM had a lot of trauma growing up and went without but is proud to have always given me and DSis everything we wanted and needed, we were extremely materially privileged and doted on. She doesn’t get on with her own sisters as they too have issues.

I am really apprehensive of the wedding but if I don’t go, extended family might see issue with it and I’d never be forgiven like ever

I hate it because I never pictured a reality other than getting on with them, but my sister will never see me as her equal and try as I might to explain it to my mum she will make excuse after excuse for my sister or find a way to say I’m responsible. So tiring. If it’s not too painful to talk about, what happened in your situation? How did you put boundaries in place? Did it take you long to do this?

@MonkeyfromManchester thank you so much, your comments have been so helpful. Sometimes you just need to hear it over and over.

Good on your DH! I hope the lunch is bearable.

I will be totally honest to you and say that l realised l had to learn not comment about my sister when my Mum brings her up. If l said anything in reply to my Mothers poking then it made my Mum get nasty to me , she also told my sister everything . She stirred things up between us as well . If l said anything then she would defend my sister to me and she would be horrible. I tell my Mum l am not interested or l don't want to know if she starts talking about her . She puts her head down and is horrible or she cries and tries to make me feel guilty . Only l don't feel guilty any more
If you can't go NC then have you heard about going grey rock ? It is when you do not show any interest , do not get riled, do not give them any supply because that is what the narc wants, supply . Whether it is bad supply or good supply they don't care . So l have learned not to let it get to me , l change the subject .l walk out of the room if she starts , l ignore her , l sing or hum to myself and l do not give her any supply . She hates it , but this is what works for me . l have to add it doesn't always work hence me posting last week but 99% of the time l am on it !
I also blocked all my SM , so my sister or brother of their partners cannot contact me . I want nothing to do with them ever again . It really hurts but how can l go back to them and live a lie knowing what they have said about me and the treatment they have doled out to me . once you see the narc behaviour it is nigh on impossible to unsee it , you can see it in everything they say and do
I have been so sad and heartbroken over it l have wished l could go back to how it was but l just can't do that it's impossible . Every time l see her l see this stranger, this monster, not the sister l thought she was . l really loved her and l thought she loved me
Here is a video from DR Les Carter , explaining it , he is a sweetheart !
I hope you get to a good place with this , it is one of the hardest things l have ever had to do and it has caused me so much sorrow

@noirchatsdeux @flapjackfairy absolutely! People often don’t “get” the dysfunction in families because they only see the superficial. It’s REALLY hard to explain to people that the Hag’s nice Irish old lady bollocks is just that. I’ve given up. Everyone who matters to me knows and BELIEVES me.

@TheNewlmprovedMrsMadEvans it is about grieving a relationship and is even harder when it’s your own family. I can see that’s what Mr Monkey is doing - well, he’s grieving for his childhood as he’s given up on thinking his relationship with the Hag could be a good one. I hope you find peace. Good to know you’ve had a lot of support here. This place has given me space to work out my MIL’s behaviour, become stronger and support MM.

@chatterbug22 no worries, everything you say makes sense. They are escalating the shit because you’re making a run for it. Hugs.

@flapjackfairy Thank you for your reply...there are so, so many similarities in our stories. Like you, I've found the near constant loss - of friends, pets, etc - so hard to deal with.

Every time I built a new life and made friends and dared to be happy it was all ripped away from me and I had to start again.

It makes me so sad to know someone else has gone through the exact same thing. I would not wish the level of emotional pain that caused us, as children, on my worst enemy. And then having that pain completely invalidated, or even worse, ignored by our parents...the two people who are supposed to love and want the best for us the most.

Any time myself or my two brothers displayed any negative emotion my mother would get so angry...I remember when the stray cat we'd only had a month was killed crossing the road - and of course I was the one who found him, on my way to school that morning - it was a holy day of obligation and my Catholic mother forced us all to go to Mass that evening. I spent the whole Mass trying not to cry...we then went to see my grandmother, who lived on the same street as the church...she could see that I was upset and asked why. I promptly burst into tears and told her...she gave me a hug (my parents never ever did that). My mother was so fucking angry that I'd dared to 'show her up' in front of her mother. I was 13, that was exactly 40 years ago and I don't think there's a month where I don't still think of that cat and cry...

I also got told the same about our constant moves "it's all for you" etc. Load of fucking bollocks. My father acted like he was a single man and my mother put her marriage to him above her 3 children...even when the bastard tried to dump us all by convincing her to move back to our home country (which he'd always said he hated) when I was 11. He was going to 'join us when his visa came through' but had planned to stay here...even to the point of sorting out new single accommodation for himself. Unfortunately my mother discovered his plan at the last minute...even though he confessed straight away, she still fucking stayed with him! He left her for another woman when I was 21... exactly 6 months after my younger brother turned 18.

Sorry to all, this is very long. I'm bipolar and am experiencing a lot of anger at the moment.