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Daughter suddenly wants abortion

221 replies

Louismayy · 06/04/2022 19:48

Dd ex has gotten into her head regarding abortion… she’s officially 18 weeks and has doubts about the pregnancy but has also shown much interest into being the best mum she can possibly be she’s about to turn 22 so she’s really young and still has a whole life ahead of her. She was having this mentality of I can do everything I’ll meet a guy who wants both of us now she thinks she’s at a massive disadvantage after speaking to him she seems to think she will only meet less good quality men… I don’t know what he’s done to her but she wants a termination. He in my opinion is a narcissist and very manipulative individual who is using her fears and insecurities against her. He was very verbally abusive to her he was also very good at playing mind games with her and getting every penny he can from her… her situation isn’t ideal with five of us living in a two bedroom house and now to be six but we had sorted how we could make the situation work. She’s now speaking on it’s going to ruin her education and she won’t have a penny to herself. It was just this sudden click after him speaking to her for over two hours and I can’t help but feel he’s done something to her head.

OP posts:
whumpthereitis · 07/04/2022 20:07

[quote PinkQuartz]@Hertsgirl10

Glad you agree 😊.[/quote]
Your denials would be significantly more believable if you didn’t insist on hollering like a hit dog.

———————
Really not sure why people are assuming that the girl doesn’t already know what it entails, or that she won’t be told if she decides to go ahead. Incidentally, how should she be told? With gory expositions laced with moralistic overtones, explicitly intended to dissuade her? Should such explanations also be laid on thick when it comes to a woman deciding to give birth? Because that’s not exactly know for it’s beautiful aesthetics either. In fact I don’t think any medical procedure is, unless anyone here can attest to witnessing a particularly beautiful bone graft?

PinkQuartz · 07/04/2022 20:15

@whumpthereitis

Sorry can you repeat that? (preferably in English).

whumpthereitis · 07/04/2022 20:21

[quote PinkQuartz]@whumpthereitis

Sorry can you repeat that? (preferably in English).[/quote]
Sadly, I suspect you would struggle to understand no matter what language it was in.

PinkQuartz · 07/04/2022 20:24

@whumpthereitis

I’ve just googled it. It’s American (as expected). Personally I prefer Shakespeare’s translation “she doth protest too much” 😉 ….. in which case what is it that I am so fiercely denying? Do tell 😁.

Kanaloa · 07/04/2022 20:25

People do generally know what most medical procedures will entail though. Every time I’ve had surgery I’ve had the chance to sit down with a consultant beforehand and have them say okay we’ll be doing xy and z for hopefully this outcome. Some of the after effects will be this and that, and there’s a possibility of this other thing.

It’s not unusual to know what a procedure will be like before having it - I would actually say it’s poor practice if you’re not told.

However, I think in this case the woman needs to make this decision for herself. At the moment it sounds like she’s being infantilised and looking to mum and ex to sort it all and decide for her - she is the only one who can/should decide since it’s her life that’s ultimately affected.

Hertsgirl10 · 07/04/2022 20:34

@whumpthereitis .. I think she needs to have a day off 😂

Ginger1982 · 07/04/2022 20:36

Worrying how many folk seem to believe they are pro choice when they clearly aren't. The law's the law. She can terminate if she wants to.

whumpthereitis · 07/04/2022 20:36

[quote PinkQuartz]@whumpthereitis

I’ve just googled it. It’s American (as expected). Personally I prefer Shakespeare’s translation “she doth protest too much” 😉 ….. in which case what is it that I am so fiercely denying? Do tell 😁.[/quote]
Yes, it’s American. Given that English isn’t actually my first, or second, language I have no preference for British English over American. Both are generally understood by native speakers of either.

I’m referring to your evident penchant for dramatics, made rather evident by the fact you’ve made no coherent posts on the subject of the thread itself, you’re just bitch plopping and acting the pseudo intellectual in the comments. I’ll leave you to it though. Whist I’m not feeling particularly charitable I still can’t help feeling embarrassed for you.

PinkQuartz · 07/04/2022 20:48

@whumpthereitis

With a superiority complex as high as yours you’re actually embarrassing yourself. I can only presume somewhere along this thread an opinion of mine truly hit a nerve. I don’t care if you speak 20 languages, I was simply saying I preferred the Shakespeare translation of the point you were trying to make.

I had an opinion. It’s not my problem if you’ve interpreted that as “bitch plopping” 🤣.

Silversprinkles · 07/04/2022 20:59

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koalalala · 07/04/2022 21:07

She's not 'too far', however I agree that having a termination at 18 weeks or later is going to be a fairly harrowing experience both mentally and physically and a decision she needs to work through carefully and think about all options available.

Are you in a position to help her arrange some counselling or something similar? Perhaps someone independent can help her work through her feelings and come to an informed decision without judgement or pressure either way?

I really think that what she needs most is impartial support whilst she works through this. At the end of the day this is her that it's going to affect the most whatever she chooses to do. Try to give her factual objective and realistic information and emotional support.

mummamarnis · 08/04/2022 10:14

It's a hard subject to not get emotive about I think most people are more comfortable with abortion by pills or suction evacuation before 13 weeks than they are about dialation and evacuation abortion. That's why some comments think 18 weeks is too late. 24 weeks for any reason is the Law in uk or up to birth if baby has downs or a disability or mother could die and I think it's right women have safe access to abortion. I wouldn't want to see women die because abortion is illegal or restricted.
It doesn't mean I'm completely comfortable with what happens to the fetus during a D&E abortion.

The OPs daughter needs independent counsel with a mental health specialist away from the 2 bed with 5 people and away from the Ex so she can make up her OWN mind what she wants to do without any judgement and do what is best for her and I hope either way the OP supports her.

mummamarnis · 08/04/2022 12:04

Should such explanations also be laid on thick when it comes to a woman deciding to give birth? Because that’s not exactly know for it’s beautiful aesthetics.

I understand what your saying but the thing with abortion is there is no 'one aborted every minute TV show' like there is one born every minute or 24 hours in A&E why is that its just a medical procedure? That women have everyday for all kinds of reasons and is not a easy decision. I think showing abortion by pill abortion by suction evacuation and abortion by D&E a lot of people would find the procedure shocking due to the fact you could potentially see a fetus that looks fully formed not a clump of cells cut in bits

After a late abortion and watch the abortionist rearrange all the bits to make sure they have it all. Its not just a sack and a heavy period. Hence why they dont do it and pro lifers get a hard time for showing it in there literature and on the posters. I think in comparison to a water birth a complicated breech birth or a c section or someone smashed up after a car accident or having a hysterectomy or vasectomy abortion as a procedure and the resulting contents removed can be worse visually for some people. YouTube and other streaming allows footage of other surgery but not abortion. It's hidden and censored to the max as people would get upset.
During covid women could have abortions by pill by post some women were not prepared for what it entails and ended up scared in A&E thinking they were bleeding to death after being told its was just a heavy period and to take a pain killer and were not expecting contraction like waves of pain and clumps of tissue coming out some prefered it by post as its so graphic they would rather go through it at home in private. Abortion clinics turn the ultrasound screen away during the dating scan if the mother is over 16 weeks tell you your having a surgical abortion but they don't explain that the process is different depending on how many weeks gestation you are its just 'surgical' early or late but D&E and suction evacuation are not the same but both are classed as a surgical abortion. Dilating the cervics and sucking a fetus out with a high powered vacuum is not the same as having to dilate the cervics over a few days and using instruments to pull it apart. So yeah I think most people know more about the horrors of childbirth and general surgery than they do with abortion for sure. So you can't assume people and the OPs daughter are actually informed this thread just proves that with comments like a abortion at 13 weeks is the same as 18 weeks it isn't so let's not pretend it is. If all abortion was the same there wouldn't be a legal limit and I can see why people have a problem with abortion later on even if they do fully support the women's right to choose.

MrsSkylerWhite · 08/04/2022 12:08

I wouldn’t want an abortion at 18 weeks. If my daughter did, I’d offer her every support I could.
It’s not her ex’s decision. It’s not yours, either. Give her space to decide what SHE wants then offer her love and support.

HiKelsey · 08/04/2022 12:10

I had DD at 21 (I'm 24 now), I really panicked during my pregnancy and although she was planned (I have endometriosis and was told I would struggle to conceive) my ExH said no one would want me after I'd have her so I'd never leave.

Fast forward to now ExH isn't allowed to see her (different issue), and I've met a amazing guy who loves her unconditionally. He got police checked before meeting her and they are like dumb and dumber, following each other. Everything he does she wants to copy. I'd reassure your daughter that she is beautiful, strong and knows her own body and mind. No guy should effect her decisions ever x

Hertsgirl10 · 08/04/2022 12:58

@mummamarnis

Should such explanations also be laid on thick when it comes to a woman deciding to give birth? Because that’s not exactly know for it’s beautiful aesthetics.

I understand what your saying but the thing with abortion is there is no 'one aborted every minute TV show' like there is one born every minute or 24 hours in A&E why is that its just a medical procedure? That women have everyday for all kinds of reasons and is not a easy decision. I think showing abortion by pill abortion by suction evacuation and abortion by D&E a lot of people would find the procedure shocking due to the fact you could potentially see a fetus that looks fully formed not a clump of cells cut in bits

After a late abortion and watch the abortionist rearrange all the bits to make sure they have it all. Its not just a sack and a heavy period. Hence why they dont do it and pro lifers get a hard time for showing it in there literature and on the posters. I think in comparison to a water birth a complicated breech birth or a c section or someone smashed up after a car accident or having a hysterectomy or vasectomy abortion as a procedure and the resulting contents removed can be worse visually for some people. YouTube and other streaming allows footage of other surgery but not abortion. It's hidden and censored to the max as people would get upset.
During covid women could have abortions by pill by post some women were not prepared for what it entails and ended up scared in A&E thinking they were bleeding to death after being told its was just a heavy period and to take a pain killer and were not expecting contraction like waves of pain and clumps of tissue coming out some prefered it by post as its so graphic they would rather go through it at home in private. Abortion clinics turn the ultrasound screen away during the dating scan if the mother is over 16 weeks tell you your having a surgical abortion but they don't explain that the process is different depending on how many weeks gestation you are its just 'surgical' early or late but D&E and suction evacuation are not the same but both are classed as a surgical abortion. Dilating the cervics and sucking a fetus out with a high powered vacuum is not the same as having to dilate the cervics over a few days and using instruments to pull it apart. So yeah I think most people know more about the horrors of childbirth and general surgery than they do with abortion for sure. So you can't assume people and the OPs daughter are actually informed this thread just proves that with comments like a abortion at 13 weeks is the same as 18 weeks it isn't so let's not pretend it is. If all abortion was the same there wouldn't be a legal limit and I can see why people have a problem with abortion later on even if they do fully support the women's right to choose.

@mummamarnis

Like I said my friend had one last year at 18 weeks and she was took a tablet or one inside maybe? A few days before then was knocked out and didn’t feel anything different to any other operation, no trauma no long term affects.
She had normal bleeding afterwards and is any at all traumatised by the whole situation.
I think you’re not very well informed yourself if you think someone that’s knocked out cares if it’s sucked out or pulled apart cos they’re not awake to know what’s going on anyway, why should they need to know that information?
Sounds like you’re trying to make it sound as terrifying as possible tbh.

It’s not a pro lifers job to inform women about how an operation is performed it’s the surgeons.
The creeps that sit outside abortion clinics with nun that shout at vulnerable women with the the photos of all stages of pregnancy photos on show are sick and a few people on this thread are on par with that I think.

PinkQuartz · 08/04/2022 13:05

@Hertsgirl10

There are shades of grey which you can’t fathom. Also you can’t think outside of your friends experience either. It went well for her and that’s a good thing but we can’t pretend others wouldn’t be traumatised at an abortion, realistically in this case at 20 weeks.

Thankfully we have properly trained counsellors in place for this reason, not people solely projecting their own experiences or their friends experiences on mumsnet.

Hertsgirl10 · 08/04/2022 13:10

[quote PinkQuartz]@Hertsgirl10

There are shades of grey which you can’t fathom. Also you can’t think outside of your friends experience either. It went well for her and that’s a good thing but we can’t pretend others wouldn’t be traumatised at an abortion, realistically in this case at 20 weeks.

Thankfully we have properly trained counsellors in place for this reason, not people solely projecting their own experiences or their friends experiences on mumsnet.[/quote]
@PinkQuartz

Oh bore off you’ve already proved you’ve no understanding of anything people are saying here.

I only brought that experience up as people are saying such nonsense about the actual procedure.

Stop @ me literally no one cares about your weird opinions here.

Thewheelsfalloffthebus · 08/04/2022 14:06

To be fair I think some people are confusing a D&E at 18 weeks with a 23week plus termination (for example they may have read about women’s experience of termination for medical reasons at that gestation or later). There’s another cut off at 23 weeks. Prior to that, based on the NHS website. the women’s experience of a early surgical abortion and a late surgical abortion seems much less different, as she would be asleep or sedated for the D&E.
In a lot of places in the world, the cut off for maternal request terminations is 13 ish weeks.

whumpthereitis · 08/04/2022 14:14

I understand what your saying but the thing with abortion is there is no 'one aborted every minute TV show' like there is one born every minute or 24 hours in A&E why is that its just a medical procedure?

In part because of prevailing narratives that birth is always wonderful, abortion always a tragedy that some adhere to. A tv programme that overwhelmingly focuses on the feel good factor for people to coo at. Having a baby is indeed wonderful for women who want one, but birth itself is one of the most dangerous things a woman can do. Look at how women with birth injuries are often treated, hell you can look at how birth injuries are often inflicted on women for the perceived good of the baby. It’s all very much about the production (‘miracle!’) of a child, with little focus on the mental, emotional or physical health of women, whether the pregnancy is wanted or not. So I don’t personally think such narratives point to some universal truth, but are instead a whitewashing of serious issues in regards to how women are treated when it comes to pregnancy.

Also, aesthetically it isn’t ‘nice’. Similarly, you don’t have a mainstream tv programme dedicated to born surgery, tumor removal, or bowel sectioning. Surgery is gory, and the goriness is necessary to achieve most beneficial outcome for the patient. Whether something looks pleasant or not isn’t, and shouldn’t, be the focal point. Whether it’s the best treatment should be what matters.

Women are informed as to what happens. They are told what the procedure entails. They are given a choice as to whether they want to look at the ultrasound or not. Looking at it, tbh, isn’t a medically necessary thing at all. When I had my abortion I chose to look at mine because I was interested to see it (same way I watched another surgery I had when under local anesthetic) but it didn’t inspire in me any of the feelings that proponents for women always looking at the ultrasound expect it to. Those that want to compel women to look at the ultrasound don’t want to do it because it’s medically necessary, they do it because they expect women will be overcome with maternal emotion and change their mind, or at least feel riddled with guilt. There’s definitely a sense that ‘telling women what abortion is’ has to presented as a negative, and that when it’s explained as the medical procedure that it is, that somehow women are somehow being denied some obvious ‘truth’. When it comes to birth, it’s wonderful and all the risks associated with pregnancy and birth are ‘worth it’ and that any birth trauma shouldn’t focused on, yet abortion? Even if it’s the right choice for the woman, it has to be hammered through her head that it’s a terrible thing that she’s doing, and that she’ll be traumatized forever more even if she thinks it’s the right course of action for her.

It absolutely is not a given that a woman will be traumatized after an abortion, no matter whether it’s early or late term. The expectation seems to be though, without even knowing the individual in question, that she will be.

Can you take an abortion ‘back’? No. You can’t undo having a baby either. Both are permanent decisions, and as such women need to be able to make the choice that is right for them, no one else.

PinkQuartz · 08/04/2022 14:44

@Hertsgirl10

No I won’t bore off for having an opinion. This is mumsnet. You’ll find a few on here.

Thehundredthnamechange · 08/04/2022 16:18

At 18 weeks, an abortion will be absolutely horrific. It will be thoroughly traumatic. I can't believe abortions are even allowed at this stage. The poor girl. I'd really try to dissuade her.

ldontWanna · 08/04/2022 17:02

@Thehundredthnamechange

At 18 weeks, an abortion will be absolutely horrific. It will be thoroughly traumatic. I can't believe abortions are even allowed at this stage. The poor girl. I'd really try to dissuade her.
And giving birth and having a baby when she doesn't want one can't be traumatic?
codeVeronica · 08/04/2022 18:05

@Thehundredthnamechange

At 18 weeks, an abortion will be absolutely horrific. It will be thoroughly traumatic. I can't believe abortions are even allowed at this stage. The poor girl. I'd really try to dissuade her.
Because having a baby you don't want is a barrel of laughs.
whumpthereitis · 08/04/2022 18:15

Does the risk of trauma being the result of an action, mean that people shouldn’t be free to choose said action, even in spite of that risk? There’s an assumption here that trauma is always unavoidable, but sometimes it’s not. What if the choice is between greater and lesser trauma? What then? What if the trauma of continuing an unwanted pregnancy would be greater than the trauma of having a late term abortion? Given that no one can look into the future and make decisions in retrospect, a woman facing that situation needs to make the best decision she can make, for herself, at the time. That also means accepting the risk of future regret. As the one who is going to have to live with the impact of her choices, she has that freedom and that right.

Anyway, anti abortionists who bang the trauma drum aren’t usually consistent. First of all, apparently any trauma a woman may feel as a result of going through an unwanted pregnancy is either irrelevant or acceptable, and secondly, it only ever seems to be a bad thing when used to try and dissuade a woman from having an abortion. If a woman goes ahead and has an abortion, trauma seems to be considered the right, proper, and optimal outcome. Just take a look at the reaction to women who choose abortion and have the audacity to not feel bad about it.

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