caring for FIL - what is reasonable?

[bareniceties]

Just had a horrible phone call with my OH and would appreciate some independent views to help me reflect.

FIL lives by himself around 500 miles away from us. He is 90 and his health is now poor. Last year we set up carers to go in 2x a day and this is going pretty well. Last week, however, FIL was rushed into hospital with pneumonia again. He was due to come out today but latest bloods not as great as hoped so this is delayed by a day or two (all going well).

Every time FIL gets ill (currently around 3 times a year) DH drops everything and dashes up there. He WFH and can work from there so that's a help. We have 2 kids age 13 and 14. I work but they can walk to school so we do manage well when he's not here but obviously some social events need to be cancelled (we have no help here, no-one I can ask to be with the kids).

DH and I have a recurrent disagreement about how much is reasonable to support FIL. Today DH said he wanted to stay and help FIL 'transition' home from hospital. He was very vague about what this meant and cross that I was asking but it seems that he's saying he wants to be there when he gets home from hospital, he wants to see whether he needs help with meals, getting drinks, getting to and from the toilet, getting dressed and if he can't do these things on his own, then start setting up more care.

My position is that of course do drop and run if you think FIL is seriously ill and might die but once we know that's not the case (thankfully) we need to be sure that the care needed at home is in place before he is discharged and sometimes FIL will need to go to a home which his son is not currently staying at - i.e. he will go home to an empty house, albeit with regular carer visits. I think DH can now come home and we can do the rest of the arranging via phone.

OH said that he owes it to his dad to help him out (they are not close but he was with his mother and really feels he is doing it for her) and that we should always do that if the compromise is not too great - though he wouldn't say who gets to decide about that.

It was DS's BD yesterday and OH missed that as he was at his dad's. DS's BD party this weekend has had to be postponed (I can't run it for him as it's physical and I have some health issues).

I am not too worried about a one-off but I am worried that DHs need for his dad to always have him there when he comes out of hospital and to be there throughout his hospital stays is untenable given the distance and the frailty of his dad's health. I guess it does not feel fair on us to prioritise his dad's needs above all else.

For context, FIL has no family other than OH. He has some good friends but they are too elderly to help. We offered to find FIL a flat near us or a residential home. He did not want to move - fair enough he's lived in his home town for 70 years now, but it's not that he's not welcome here. We've also offered to find a home for him in his own home town but he's not keen on that and again fair enough, he's a man who likes his own space and needs a lot of quiet.

Am I just being unsupportive do you think?

Maybe he thinks he doesn't have that much time left and is doing the best he can for him. Would you mind if he was to live with you? It's his dad at the end of the day and he has no one.

Tbh I would be with your oh on this one - although I totally get that it's very hard on you.

The transition out of hospital is a really difficult patch and I totally see why your oh feels he has to be on hand to see what's happening and how his df is really managing. I think he's doing the right thing. It's true that it's going to happen again and again until death or until his df needs longer term care. That's really hard on you all and I'm not trying to minimise that.

His father is elderly and just about to be released from hospital. I think it is very understandable that your DH wants to stay and support his dad during the transition. Your FIL has no one else. You have already said that you manage well while your husband is away. I think you should try and be more understanding.

Thanks guys. His dad would not want to live with us and our house is not suitable for him anyway. We'd set him up around the corner if he wanted.

It does feel like I can't arrange anything now TBH. We have no back u[ and if OH is not here for 2 weeks at a time relatively regularly at v short notice, I can only reliably do things with the kids. That honestly does feel like a big price just so his dad doesn't have to go home to an empty house though I totally get why OH wants to be there too.

We did think it was the end last week but FIL has rallied and there is no need to think that the end is nigh now though of course at his age anything could happen.

Sorry but also with your oh on this. At 90 realistically his df won't have that long left. If it was a prolonged hospital stay I can see it might not be tenable to stay the whole time, but the transition home is a difficult time and does need someone to help navigate. It's not always easy to tell how well a care package is working from afar.

I assume visits to him are few between these times? It's hard on dc and you, but I think unreasonable to expect him to leave df at present.

I am understanding btw. I was totally behind him dropping everything and heading to the station last week and we save money each month for just such eventualities (train far is £140 each time he needs to do this). It's the idea of being at home to see what care he needs and then starting to set it up which scares me as setting up care can take weeks.

We do visit between crises though covid has majorly affected that. FIL was a reluctant vaccer and then did not want us to visit in case we brought something with us. Thankfully he's had the jabs now. We used to visit around 3 times a year sometimes with OH doing an additional visit or two. Yes it's not hugely regular.

It's blooming hard on you all.

Crossing fingers things get set up in a solid way soon.

If it was my parent I would absolutely want to be there to make sure he was OK, particularly if care needs might have changed but probably regardless, at 90!

I understand it's not easy especially if it's happening fairly regularly but it's not forever.

I think if it was my FIL I would want my partner to be there for him, his needs in these circumstances would be greater than mine. You say you are managing well without him so, as hard as it is, i would try to keep supporting him to do this

To be honest you sound quite nasty. His dads just coming out of hospital and is 90 and in ill health and you are moaning because you have to postpone some social activities even though your kids are teenagers and you don’t really need him home. I think you are being really unfair to your husband

My OH works away 2/3 weeks at a time. I have 2 young DC with various different clubs etc. we make it work.
OP it sounds like you are saying you don't want your OH to care for his very elderly dad because it ruins your social life. I think you need to get a bit of perspective here. His dad won't be around forever. YABU.

Of course it’s right that he cares for his father. I think you have misjudged this one, op.

@Jakc

To be honest you sound quite nasty. His dads just coming out of hospital and is 90 and in ill health and you are moaning because you have to postpone some social activities even though your kids are teenagers and you don’t really need him home. I think you are being really unfair to your husband

I agree with above!

If it was your Dm or Df, would'nt you want to be there for them?

I would be speaking the hospital discharge team. I've known many a patient who explain how X relative lives with them, looks after them, visits often etc etc, where in fact X relative lives in America or is a complete fabrication!

Are the hospital aware FIL is only having twice daily carer visits and no other support at all locally? I would be pushing for an increase of carer visits and possible respite before being discharged to an empty home.

If the tables were turned, and this was your mother or father, wouldn't you want to be there? Its very hard when someone doesn't want to relocate or be closer to you, but realistically, how long do you think this will go on?

DH and I talked it out when his mother became ill and decided that the day would come when each of us would need to assume some caring responsibilities for our parents. So we decided that the 'caring' one should have complete freedom to care for their parent as they saw fit and that the other of us would carry the 'home front'.

DH was given full rein to care for and spend time with his mum whilst I kept the home fires burning. In return he did the same for me TWICE, when I was needed by both my mum and my dad in their last years (his dad died of sudden heart failure). It worked for us and there was no feelings of guilt or feeling 'put upon' by either of us.

I'm in the camp that your DH should be able to care for his dad as he sees fit. The day may come when you need, and can ask for, the same freedom.

That's a bit unpleasant @Jakc
I don't mind cancelling some social engagements. I just think that if the bar is now that OH needs to be there throughout all hospital stays and for a week or so (or longer if more care needs to be set up) at every discharge, this is a massive commitment and we should be clear that is what we are committing to.

Social events are an important way to de-stress and find meaning in life. Of course I'll cancel them so OH can be with his very ill dad. Cancelling them so OH can stay with his dad for a week after he comes out is a bigger compromise.

It sounds like the consensus is I should just accept that my social life will be more limited until either FIL dies or my 14 year old will be old enough to stay on her own with her brother (which hopefully will come first of course). I keep saying to my OH that he is his father's carer and he angrily says not. Maybe I need to explain that it may be easier for me to accept that he is as then any support he offers for childcare etc is a bonus rather than an expectation.

Also not sure why he's angry at the idea of him being a carer but I can explore that with him another time when things are calmer.

Cross posted @AcrossthePond55 but I think I was just writing exactly what you just said! He did 50% of childcare so when the kids were little this was just not possible as without him being here I'd not be able to work and as I bring in 75% of our income, we'd have lost the house. But times have changed and maybe we need to update our thinking. This is now so regular it really is not worth arranging any overnight social events if this becomes our modus operandi but maybe I need to find a different way to socialise to fit in with this new way of being for a couple of year.

This won't ever happen to me. My mother is dead and dad lives abroad. But that doesn't mean that I don't want to help OH negotiate this tricky stage well.

You are being unpleasant, selfish and combative. Someone needs to be there to work out what needs to happen going forward. Doesn’t mean it’s forever, your husband is probably trying to work it all out knowing he can’t reasonably discuss it with you.

You do seem quite cold and detached.

It's his father.
He is elderly.
He may not have much time left.
Your husband is going the right thing.
It's easy throw money at the issue and step away. Your husband is more caring that than.

I wouldn't share your view that he should come back because you have to cancel social events, with your husband.

Hmm l can see it from both sides. Your husband wants to support his dad but it’s an impact on yours / his family life. Ultimately then l think people need to take responsibility for themselves; it is all well and good your FIL not wanting to move near you. Or go into a care home but does your husband need to drop everything at regular intervals for the foreseeable. It sounds like a big time and money commitment. My grandmother lived to 96 so there could be another 6 years + of this

I don't think your father inlaw is going to be able to manage on his own at all. Even with help coming in. It might be a good thing to start getting him used to the idea that he needs to go into a home.
You can reassure him that he will have a room, and probably a bathroom of his own, and will be able to have as much peace and quiet
as he wants. I do hope he improves.

Nasty @Frannibananni. Just plain nasty. Someone doesn't have to be there to work out what support is needed otherwise people who live on their own would never be able to be discharged. @Hairyfriend suggested contacting the hospital discharge team and I will be suggesting that we do this. It sounds like it might be a way of establishing what he actually needs before basically getting him home and then seeing what OH needs to do or what just can't be done (OH can't life his dad as he has a hernia and his dad is a very tall man so if he can't get up and down by himself, he would not be getting up and down).

@NeverChange
what actually really felt like a last straw was not the cancelling of my social events, it was the postponing of my son's BD party which followed from his dad not being at his BD. We tried to include him as much as possible via whatsapp but of course he was very missed and my son was clearly sad about his dad not being at things.

It sounds like the consensus is that this is the right choice though and I will hear that message.

@NeverChange
Also I think what might make me sounds detached is the fact that this has been happening for years and the idea that his father might not have long left is of course true but feels less pertinent when this has been the case for the last 5 years of similar dashes up north. He may well not have and I'd want him to have a good end and my OH to be there. We also need to be in this for the long haul though as his mother lived to 103 and he could easily have a decade or more of life left in him.

No way he will accept going into a home. We've tried to show him places, set up respite in one so he can sample it. He has friends in homes. We've investigated good ones close to his home. Nowadays he might well be investigated for ASD. He likes things the way he likes things and that makes change and social mixing aversive for him. We were worried about how he'd get on with the carers but thankfully it's gone swimmingly. The bite-size social interactions which are really all about him actually suit him really well and he purports to enjoy the visits.

DH sounds like a good person who wants to support his elderly father. I don't think it would be appropriate for a poorly 90 year old to go home alone in winter when it's dark. How is he supposed to get food in & wash his clothes on his own when he's unwell?

The twice daily carers will only do the bare minimum.

I do however think that a better plan is needed. He would be better off in a supported apartment or something.,

I do think you sound a little cold hearted. You have already said DH can wfh so presumably he doesn't have to take leave.

I think a 14yo should understand Dad missing his birthday. He's caring for his elderly & unwell father. Hopefully this is modelling to your sons what a decent son does & they will support you both when you need it.