caring for FIL - what is reasonable?

[bareniceties]

Just had a horrible phone call with my OH and would appreciate some independent views to help me reflect.

FIL lives by himself around 500 miles away from us. He is 90 and his health is now poor. Last year we set up carers to go in 2x a day and this is going pretty well. Last week, however, FIL was rushed into hospital with pneumonia again. He was due to come out today but latest bloods not as great as hoped so this is delayed by a day or two (all going well).

Every time FIL gets ill (currently around 3 times a year) DH drops everything and dashes up there. He WFH and can work from there so that's a help. We have 2 kids age 13 and 14. I work but they can walk to school so we do manage well when he's not here but obviously some social events need to be cancelled (we have no help here, no-one I can ask to be with the kids).

DH and I have a recurrent disagreement about how much is reasonable to support FIL. Today DH said he wanted to stay and help FIL 'transition' home from hospital. He was very vague about what this meant and cross that I was asking but it seems that he's saying he wants to be there when he gets home from hospital, he wants to see whether he needs help with meals, getting drinks, getting to and from the toilet, getting dressed and if he can't do these things on his own, then start setting up more care.

My position is that of course do drop and run if you think FIL is seriously ill and might die but once we know that's not the case (thankfully) we need to be sure that the care needed at home is in place before he is discharged and sometimes FIL will need to go to a home which his son is not currently staying at - i.e. he will go home to an empty house, albeit with regular carer visits. I think DH can now come home and we can do the rest of the arranging via phone.

OH said that he owes it to his dad to help him out (they are not close but he was with his mother and really feels he is doing it for her) and that we should always do that if the compromise is not too great - though he wouldn't say who gets to decide about that.

It was DS's BD yesterday and OH missed that as he was at his dad's. DS's BD party this weekend has had to be postponed (I can't run it for him as it's physical and I have some health issues).

I am not too worried about a one-off but I am worried that DHs need for his dad to always have him there when he comes out of hospital and to be there throughout his hospital stays is untenable given the distance and the frailty of his dad's health. I guess it does not feel fair on us to prioritise his dad's needs above all else.

For context, FIL has no family other than OH. He has some good friends but they are too elderly to help. We offered to find FIL a flat near us or a residential home. He did not want to move - fair enough he's lived in his home town for 70 years now, but it's not that he's not welcome here. We've also offered to find a home for him in his own home town but he's not keen on that and again fair enough, he's a man who likes his own space and needs a lot of quiet.

Am I just being unsupportive do you think?

Topsey I'm not meaning to come across as snarky. It's just hard to get the tone you mean to come across in writing.

I'm genuinely interested to know people's thoughts on what family commitments would make staying at his dad's not viable. He'd come back at the moment if I was admitted to hospital esp if the goodwill of the friends I'd ask to have our kids was running low or they were not able to but I honestly can't think of anything else he'd prioritise more at the moment. I guess the nub of it is that we might have different ideas about the importance of other family commitments versus the need for him to be the person who plugs the gap in his dad's care.

Thanks @LoonvanBoon. I didn't know about that section and I will rummage to find it. Sounds like it could be really helpful.

POA has not been enacted yet so we can't pay for train fare from DFs accounts.

DS can't reach the roof rack (he's a very small 13) to put the bikes on and I'd not want him to have the responsibility of securing them properly given how much things can go wrong if they are not.

If my father was ill and living 500 miles away alone, you can bet I would be rushing there to be with him.

I’m not sure what background you are from (not that it really matters), but in my culture caring for your elders is an absolute privilege and duty. We even go so far to bring our parents into our own homes to care for them in their old age.

Not to seem rude, but I’m honestly a bit shocked by your post. Can you imagine being completely alone and vulnerable at 90? Sure there are carers 2x a day but in my experience, they only stay for an hour max if that. So the other 22 hours of the day, your FiL is completely alone. Imagine coming home to an empty house after a hospital visit. Gosh, that would make anyone depressed.

I would be proud of your OH for stepping up and caring for his father during this time. You seem to have the flexibility to deal with this situation. Of course it’s not easy having your OH away but try to put it into perspective. Your OH may lose his father very soon and that’s hard for anyone to go through. I would be supporting him during this time.

DH does need to make it clear to FIL that he simply cannot always continue to plug the gaps, much as he feels he ought to.

If he doesn't, and continues as he is indefinitely then the outside agencies that you need will begin to more or less consider him FIL's carer and will not step up because they will perceive no crisis.

That would obviously be impractical for DH and for you as a family. So he will need to have some potentially very difficult conversations, both with his Dad and with other agencies (care agencies, adult social services etc.).

I think that it is how to manage that situation that you need to help DH explore.

I keep saying to my OH that he is his father's carer and he angrily says not
Why does he deny it, by the way? Is it because he'd feel a fool acting as his dad's carer without getting the benefits of being his official carer?

Can I also suggest a look through the Elderly Parents section of this site.

There are plenty of us on there who are or have been in similar situations. You'll find a fair bit of information and practical advice there.

Its still cruel for you to tell your DH not to help his dad, even if he isn't dying imminently like you keep mentioning

I honestly think you sound depressed (I mean this in a caring way) and that your tolerance is too low. If you had a higher patience level and were happier I think you would feel differently. Can you do a quick questionaire for yourself to see if you're depressed? When I suffer with spells of depression I'm very upset with everyone else around me and I have no tolerance for them. I also am over dependent on my husband at the best of times, it's far worse when I'm feeling depressed or anxious

I'm not telling him not to look after his dad. I'm just trying to get some sense of balance as the distance and frequency are making this have a huge impact on others. If he was spending the next 10 years at his dad's to look after him and never seeing his kids and I said that was not OK, I don't think people would consider that cruel. The question is where is the line? esp perhaps given that FIL will not consider any other option to get his care needs met.

I don't know about depressed but I do carry most of the responsibility in our house and it can get overwhelming sometimes. More so when I can't see my friends.

Why can your friends not visit you, barenicities?

I don't think what your husband is doing is at all unreasonable. If he had to go - wherever it is - once a month, that would be different and he couldn't but as things stand, it sounds OK.

They can visit. They do sometimes but they have busy lives too so of course sometimes they can't come here instead. It's not that it cuts my social life out, just down.

Your husband sounds like a wonderful and caring son and he absolutely needs to be there for his Dad. His Dad is no doubt incredibly appreciative of his support. It's often the realisation of the fact that your parents aren't going to be around much longer that means you make them the priority while you still have them & can enjoy some time / company together. I'm afraid that, understandably, at the moment, your OH's father is definitely his priority and rightly so. From your post, your view sounds cold & indignant. Let your OH spend time with his Dad without giving him a guilt complex on top of the worry he'll already have.

I'm with oh on this - it's his dad! He's not even asking you to really do anything, but what he is doing wrt elderly care is pretty normal

Your priorities are...odd!

Teens are old enough to understand such things and that sometimes planned stuff may need to change as a result of grandads ill health

Frankly that's what you should be teaching them - what's important (health welfare) and what is less so (socialising, purely fun activities)

Someone doesn't have to be there to work out what support is needed

I disagree op

Having worked in elderly care and cared for elderly relatives you really can't know for sure what's needed without being there doing and seeing what needs done

As a halfway between his own home and residential care have you considered/looked into sheltered/supported housing (it's called different things in different areas)

He would have his peace and quiet, his independence as he wanted but someone available at the press of a button if needed. No social mixing required if he didn't want to.

Also look into alarms and similar aids. I foolishly resisted getting certain things that now I have them make my life SO much easier! Even daft things like my special can opener that wasn't even expensive!

He likes things the way he likes things

Well he's not the only one is he op?

I'm the same (I have ocd) I like things to work a certain way I wouldn't cope living with others but I have a physical disability too and I'm already considering the possibility of supported housing in the future

It's hard to adapt your sense of self from someone who was young, fit and active to someone with a disability it's a real mental shift

I think this also applies to your oh him "officially" classing himself as his dads carer would actually make it easier for him to access help and support for his father AND himself - including additional financial support!

Is your fil claiming everything he's eligible for ? There are also grants and charities that can help with equipment, care and finances (not necessarily giving money but helping you access funds you're currently unaware of)

You could also look at reducing your outgoings - again priorities! Everyone is feeling the pinch just now so go through your outgoings and think where you could cut back - like nights out?

Frankly assuming the dc are in good health they really should be more capable than you're making them out to be here

By this age they should be able to cook a few basic main dishes, hot snacks, do laundry, tidying etc

DS would rather postpone (it's not cancelled) than do something different

At 14 I wouldn't have dared expect this!

My own dd would have been given short shrift over such an attitude too!

@bareniceties

I'm not telling him not to look after his dad. I'm just trying to get some sense of balance as the distance and frequency are making this have a huge impact on others. If he was spending the next 10 years at his dad's to look after him and never seeing his kids and I said that was not OK, I don't think people would consider that cruel. The question is where is the line? esp perhaps given that FIL will not consider any other option to get his care needs met.

I don't know about depressed but I do carry most of the responsibility in our house and it can get overwhelming sometimes. More so when I can't see my friends.

Lots of us carry ALL the responsibility in our house.

@bareniceties

They can visit. They do sometimes but they have busy lives too so of course sometimes they can't come here instead. It's not that it cuts my social life out, just down.

I get that but it isn't very often that your social life is cut down, for a while, usually about three times a year is what you said. It won't be forever. Your husband is with you and the children most of the time, you can surely all do without him a bit while his dad needs help.

It's a really difficult situation all round, (having just been through a really awful time with my mother who has advanced dementia I do understand how much it can impact absolutely everything.)

I see you've been dealing with this situation for years which definitely affects things and maybe some posters didn't realise this.

Thing is I would be worried in your husbands shoes and in your shoes I'd also be really concerned that you could call your DH to come home, then your FIL could have a fall or something awful and it would be terrible and potentially very difficult for you and your husband.

I do think the previous poster who made the point about him coming out of hospital alone to an empty house aged 90 is a good one. Unless there is something else which is really very important indeed going on, I would say as difficult as it is, this should take priority.

As you say, it's the length of time your DH is going to be doing this which is the question, but really things could change very quickly and then you'll never be in this scenario again. (I was juggling 3 children including a new baby when things got very bad with my mum, it was the most stressed I've ever been. I think it's good your kids are older).

@Graphista I'm confused as to why you think the DS is cheeky and entitled for wanting to reschedule his birthday outing until his DF is back.
Firstly neither the OP nor he can get the bikes on the car roof and secondly I thought it was rather sweet that at 13 he still wanted his DF to participate in his birthday outing.

It sounds difficult for all of you. The time your OH is away from home, the extra costs, earning less, cancelled plans and the stress/worry and unpredictability of it all.

I think the decision to go into a home will be taken out of your FIL and OH's hands eventually and you may need to ride it out til then.
What you need to ask your OH is what would happen if there was a crisis at home or your OH was indeed ill himself? Who would see to his DF then?

You're all as important as each other. Pragmatics dictate fil needs to move nearby. He needs to have it explained to him again and again if necessary. Surely he would care about the impact on his son and family? And you moving doesn't make sense because again pragmatically its uprooting 4 people as opposed to 1 person who are all equally important.

I hope to god I would be too kind to put my family through this .

[quote rookiemere]@Graphista I'm confused as to why you think the DS is cheeky and entitled for wanting to reschedule his birthday outing until his DF is back.
Firstly neither the OP nor he can get the bikes on the car roof and secondly I thought it was rather sweet that at 13 he still wanted his DF to participate in his birthday outing.[/quote]
I'd agree with that. I don't think the boy's actions sound cheeky or entitled at all. Just trying in his own way to continue including his Dad where he can.

That would be how I might have hoped my own children would have behaved if it had come down to it (it didn't).

*At 14 I wouldn't have dared expect this!

My own dd would have been given short shrift over such an attitude too!*

I think it rather a nice thing for him to do as already said. He is still trying to include his father, who he knows is having a hard time at the moment.

I would absolutely have wanted that behaviour from my children and would have given them short shrift if it didn't happen.

Bold fail. I should have previewed it. 🙄

Similar situation here, tho MIL is younger than your FIL.
Recurring illness over past two years needing very regular hospital admissions, we live 6 hours away. DH travels down there to care for her when she comes out of hospital, sometimes away for weeks at a time.
We have mid/older teens going through big exams this year.
Our approach is that she needs support and he will do what's needed to help her because it's the right and good thing to do, and because he wants to, and I want him to.
It's hard on both of us, but surely it's harder for DH to see his parent suffering; all he want to do is the right thing and I think that's admirable. It's one of the many reasons I love DH.

What you need to ask your OH is what would happen if there was a crisis at home or your OH was indeed ill himself? Who would see to his DF then?

I can answer that. I am at FIL right now. OH was rushed to hospital himself yesterday. I drove up through the night to look after FIL and be here for OH (and drive him home when recovered). I am in pain from all the driving and the kids are staying with friends. I think when he is recovered OH might be more able to stop and reflect on how much stress this situation is causing and how untenable it has become. FIL was really worried about his son so might also be in a place to review some of his decisions.

@Jakc

To be honest you sound quite nasty. His dads just coming out of hospital and is 90 and in ill health and you are moaning because you have to postpone some social activities even though your kids are teenagers and you don’t really need him home. I think you are being really unfair to your husband

Totally agree! Selfish and nasty.