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Original poster

caring for FIL - what is reasonable?

186 replies

bareniceties · 22/02/2022 23:28

Just had a horrible phone call with my OH and would appreciate some independent views to help me reflect.

FIL lives by himself around 500 miles away from us. He is 90 and his health is now poor. Last year we set up carers to go in 2x a day and this is going pretty well. Last week, however, FIL was rushed into hospital with pneumonia again. He was due to come out today but latest bloods not as great as hoped so this is delayed by a day or two (all going well).

Every time FIL gets ill (currently around 3 times a year) DH drops everything and dashes up there. He WFH and can work from there so that's a help. We have 2 kids age 13 and 14. I work but they can walk to school so we do manage well when he's not here but obviously some social events need to be cancelled (we have no help here, no-one I can ask to be with the kids).

DH and I have a recurrent disagreement about how much is reasonable to support FIL. Today DH said he wanted to stay and help FIL 'transition' home from hospital. He was very vague about what this meant and cross that I was asking but it seems that he's saying he wants to be there when he gets home from hospital, he wants to see whether he needs help with meals, getting drinks, getting to and from the toilet, getting dressed and if he can't do these things on his own, then start setting up more care.

My position is that of course do drop and run if you think FIL is seriously ill and might die but once we know that's not the case (thankfully) we need to be sure that the care needed at home is in place before he is discharged and sometimes FIL will need to go to a home which his son is not currently staying at - i.e. he will go home to an empty house, albeit with regular carer visits. I think DH can now come home and we can do the rest of the arranging via phone.

OH said that he owes it to his dad to help him out (they are not close but he was with his mother and really feels he is doing it for her) and that we should always do that if the compromise is not too great - though he wouldn't say who gets to decide about that.

It was DS's BD yesterday and OH missed that as he was at his dad's. DS's BD party this weekend has had to be postponed (I can't run it for him as it's physical and I have some health issues).

I am not too worried about a one-off but I am worried that DHs need for his dad to always have him there when he comes out of hospital and to be there throughout his hospital stays is untenable given the distance and the frailty of his dad's health. I guess it does not feel fair on us to prioritise his dad's needs above all else.

For context, FIL has no family other than OH. He has some good friends but they are too elderly to help. We offered to find FIL a flat near us or a residential home. He did not want to move - fair enough he's lived in his home town for 70 years now, but it's not that he's not welcome here. We've also offered to find a home for him in his own home town but he's not keen on that and again fair enough, he's a man who likes his own space and needs a lot of quiet.

Am I just being unsupportive do you think?

OP posts:
Phineyj · 23/02/2022 17:00

The OP has said repeatedly that FIL will not consider that.

Beachsidesunset · 23/02/2022 17:00

Your username is apt, OP.

Topseyt · 23/02/2022 17:11

@Rosehugger

Is FIL moving nearer to you an option at all? It's the distance that takes DH away so much.
It is right in the final paragraph of the OP. FIL will not move

I think OP has also repeated it since then.

AcrossthePond55 · 23/02/2022 17:22

@bareniceties

Cross posted *@AcrossthePond55* but I think I was just writing exactly what you just said! He did 50% of childcare so when the kids were little this was just not possible as without him being here I'd not be able to work and as I bring in 75% of our income, we'd have lost the house. But times have changed and maybe we need to update our thinking. This is now so regular it really is not worth arranging any overnight social events if this becomes our modus operandi but maybe I need to find a different way to socialise to fit in with this new way of being for a couple of year.

This won't ever happen to me. My mother is dead and dad lives abroad. But that doesn't mean that I don't want to help OH negotiate this tricky stage well.

Yes, it's time to adjust the modus operandi. Even though you won't be paid back 'in kind', I think you will be glad you did. And it will set such a good example for your DC for when the time comes that you and/or DH need that extra help. DH and I aren't at 'that stage' yet, but it was so lovely to see how our DSs hurried to ask if we needed help or offered to 'run and fetch' when I was laid up with a fractured ankle and during DH's recent cancer treatment. We did the right thing, now we're reaping the reward.

Your DC are definitely old enough to be left at home on their own, not until the wee hours or overnight of course. And to understand why Dad may not be available at times. And yes, I did still socialize on my own when DH was with his mother. Mine were too young to be left alone, but my parents were able to babysit. And even at a young age they could understand "Gramma's sick, Daddy has to take care of her".

Nanny0gg · 23/02/2022 18:21

I'm confused, if your DH can WFH, how does he lose money being up with his dad and how can he pick up more work to make up for it?

ChiefInspectorParker · 23/02/2022 18:21

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

countrygirl99 · 23/02/2022 18:35

@Nanny0gg

I'm confused, if your DH can WFH, how does he lose money being up with his dad and how can he pick up more work to make up for it?
Time lost travelling, time spent talking to doctors, care agencies, social services etc. Can easily consume several hours during a crisis and only during 9-5.
Original poster
bareniceties · 23/02/2022 18:57

Time lost travelling, time spent talking to doctors, care agencies, social services etc. Can easily consume several hours during a crisis and only during 9-5.

Exactly. As well as taking this to and fro from the hospital and doing his dad's errands. I think anyone who is surprised at this doesn't understand how much time caring actually takes. It's not a once a day visit with a bunch of grapes.

He can't pick up more of his own work but he can take on other work out of hours to make up for the lost earnings.

OP posts:
linchinton · 23/02/2022 19:13

I'm confused.

Isn't what your dh is doing normal?

Isn't it normal for families to help each other out in times of great need - even if it's inconvenient?

I know that many posters that have gone nc with toxic family members, but this isn't the case here?

To be honest I think you're being incredibly selfish - but I get MN is a safe place to vent.

Original poster
bareniceties · 23/02/2022 20:07

I don't think it is normal though perhaps I am wrong. Visiting sick relatives and wanting to do so is entirely normal but it is the scale of what he is doing is what I don't think is. He's not gone up for a day or two. He's gone for a couple or a few weeks and does this regularly. When he does that he only works part-time in order to look after his dad. It's not about convenience - that's not the issue.

OP posts:
rookiemere · 23/02/2022 20:36

I must be reading a different thread to everyone else OP. I get it. Yes his DF is very elderly and needs care, but what's happening is not sustainable.

It may not need to be, nobody knows.

But your DCs won't be teens forever and the fact they actively want to spend time with their DF matters too, as does paying the bills.

LollyLol · 23/02/2022 22:47

I feel for your DH. If my mum had died first, I would also have wanted to do everything I possibly could to make my dad's last years comfortable, because my mum would have wanted to know dad was loved, looked after and respected.

Elderly people can be discharged without someone at home, of course. But don't think that it is a good solution. They oten don't bathe or eat properly, as the carers visits are often inadequate. They become very lonely. It can be frightening for an old person to be alone, and physically not up to living independently for even a short period of time.

Your DH is doing something magnificent; it is a such a physically and emotionally demanding thing to support someone at this stage of life. I think what your DH needs, is a partner who says, " you are having a tough time, how can I support you?". Not one who snipes about the cost of train fares, lost income, puts pressure to get a 2nd job. Not one who makes him feel guilty about a missed birthday - but one who says, "DC is old enough to understand how important it is for you to look after granddad right now, don't worry I've got it covered and I'll make it alright."

And your kids should be able to cook for themselves, for goodness sake! When my mum was caring for my nan, I frequently got the family dinner cooking when I was age 11. By 16 I could easily plan and make a meal.

And your kids can help more- put the bins out , do the laundry, vacuum, change the beds, clean the kitchens and bathrooms.

Yep I'm definitely team DH. I think you should cut him a lot of slack, let him do what he needs to do. If I was him I would never forgive you for trying to guilt-free into not caring for my dad.

Jk24 · 24/02/2022 00:04

Not read full thread but yabvu. I can't believe some of your posts. Roughly 3 times a year and you're moaning about your social life, when your poor fil has been ill???? Wow

ChickenStripper · 24/02/2022 00:41

Your H needs to convince his father that he needs some help and I don't mean the crappy services from carers that are about 10 mins a day. It's NOT enough.Who is on the emergency call for when father falls in the night and calls the alarm? Pneumonia can cause death and his father can end up dead by his refusal to move to sheltered care or a residential home. We have been through this - family member who refused to move and ended up sitting in his own dirt with pneumonia and dehydration due to UTIs. This was with carers coming in too . He died. Older people have to be cajoled , encouraged, tricked even into moving into suitable care.

Parkmama · 24/02/2022 00:56

It's really hard but I think you have to put some of your social life on hold and let your own family / friends now that at the moment your commitment for doing things isn't 100% and relies of FIL's health. Your kids are also old enough to be at home by themselves for a few hours if needed. I think put a pause on family holidays / wkds away and let your DH do what he needs to do for DF. You do not want to fall out over this, within reason take DH's lead on how much he wants to support and being involved

Creeping5Vin · 24/02/2022 01:09

Lollypop - well said

Original poster
bareniceties · 24/02/2022 01:12

Thank you all for some thought provoking feedback.

I think the issue has been neatly summed up by one poster - FIL will not accept further help whilst OH is filling the gaps. This puts him, and therefore us, under increasing pressure. I will let him, if necessary, find his own limits on what he can offer and accept some period of time of limited time away and time away together if this continues.

Bit silly to criticise me for second job idea though. We do need to pay bills and this could be the situation for years.

In answer to the question about who is on the emergency call if FIL falls - OP is. And I arrange ambulance whilst he's heading up there. It feels precarious.

There is no issue with putting the bins out or stuff like that. I am usually able to do day to day household tasks and when I can't, kids do. We have supermarket delivery services too so no problem with shopping when autoimmune disorder flares up. There is no issue with everyday tasks.

OP posts:
Lampface · 24/02/2022 01:13

@bareniceties

I don't think it is normal though perhaps I am wrong. Visiting sick relatives and wanting to do so is entirely normal but it is the scale of what he is doing is what I don't think is. He's not gone up for a day or two. He's gone for a couple or a few weeks and does this regularly. When he does that he only works part-time in order to look after his dad. It's not about convenience - that's not the issue.
But it's three times a year. Compared to other folk that's very little time. I honestly couldn't get worked up about this.
KosherDill · 24/02/2022 01:14

Team OH here. The kids have their lives ahead of them. These are your husband's last days with his father. Of all times to put his needs first, this is the big one. Please don't guilt him over it.

Bromse · 24/02/2022 01:14

This is not going to continue forever, op, and you can manage on your own occasionally. It's very good that your husband is supporting his father, it sets a good example to your children too. Sometimes we just have to go to the area of greatest need.

If father in law was near or with you, the demands would be greater.

KosherDill · 24/02/2022 01:16

@Jk24

Not read full thread but yabvu. I can't believe some of your posts. Roughly 3 times a year and you're moaning about your social life, when your poor fil has been ill???? Wow

Yeah, this.

It's a huge milestone in your husband's life.

KosherDill · 24/02/2022 01:18

@bareniceties

I don't think it is normal though perhaps I am wrong. Visiting sick relatives and wanting to do so is entirely normal but it is the scale of what he is doing is what I don't think is. He's not gone up for a day or two. He's gone for a couple or a few weeks and does this regularly. When he does that he only works part-time in order to look after his dad. It's not about convenience - that's not the issue.
So what if it's a few weeks? Dead is dead, once his dad is gone.

Do you really want to look back and realize you stressed your husband over extremely minor inconveniences?

Surely not.

Lampface · 24/02/2022 01:19

Sorry I just can't quite get over this.

My grandad has cancer. He's a similar age and will be gone soon. My mum is travelling down to help with the hospital to home transition... and in your eyes that's too much?!

Your kids are teenagers, who can likely get themselves about. They also hopefully have some empathy and can understand that their DGF is very ill and that's where their father's attention needs to be right now.

This thread is so selfish.

Topseyt · 24/02/2022 03:14

@bareniceties

I don't think it is normal though perhaps I am wrong. Visiting sick relatives and wanting to do so is entirely normal but it is the scale of what he is doing is what I don't think is. He's not gone up for a day or two. He's gone for a couple or a few weeks and does this regularly. When he does that he only works part-time in order to look after his dad. It's not about convenience - that's not the issue.
It is normal. I did it.

Not necessarily sustainable long term, but still normal when a parent has been very ill and is frail. You can't just suddenly up and leave.

AncrenneWisse · 24/02/2022 06:43

Your DH is doing the right thing and you are being unreasonable and unsupportive.

He wants to make sure everything is in place for his father’s support. That cannot necessarily be done on the phone, and his son’s presence may be a great comfort to him

Your OH is not proposing to be there for weeks or months, just a few extra days or a week or two to sort it out.

Yes, he may need to do that again two or three times a year for the next few years. That’s reasonable too.

My view is that your OH owes his father that. He is probably grateful to still have him. Not everyone has that privilege.