caring for FIL - what is reasonable?

[bareniceties]

Just had a horrible phone call with my OH and would appreciate some independent views to help me reflect.

FIL lives by himself around 500 miles away from us. He is 90 and his health is now poor. Last year we set up carers to go in 2x a day and this is going pretty well. Last week, however, FIL was rushed into hospital with pneumonia again. He was due to come out today but latest bloods not as great as hoped so this is delayed by a day or two (all going well).

Every time FIL gets ill (currently around 3 times a year) DH drops everything and dashes up there. He WFH and can work from there so that's a help. We have 2 kids age 13 and 14. I work but they can walk to school so we do manage well when he's not here but obviously some social events need to be cancelled (we have no help here, no-one I can ask to be with the kids).

DH and I have a recurrent disagreement about how much is reasonable to support FIL. Today DH said he wanted to stay and help FIL 'transition' home from hospital. He was very vague about what this meant and cross that I was asking but it seems that he's saying he wants to be there when he gets home from hospital, he wants to see whether he needs help with meals, getting drinks, getting to and from the toilet, getting dressed and if he can't do these things on his own, then start setting up more care.

My position is that of course do drop and run if you think FIL is seriously ill and might die but once we know that's not the case (thankfully) we need to be sure that the care needed at home is in place before he is discharged and sometimes FIL will need to go to a home which his son is not currently staying at - i.e. he will go home to an empty house, albeit with regular carer visits. I think DH can now come home and we can do the rest of the arranging via phone.

OH said that he owes it to his dad to help him out (they are not close but he was with his mother and really feels he is doing it for her) and that we should always do that if the compromise is not too great - though he wouldn't say who gets to decide about that.

It was DS's BD yesterday and OH missed that as he was at his dad's. DS's BD party this weekend has had to be postponed (I can't run it for him as it's physical and I have some health issues).

I am not too worried about a one-off but I am worried that DHs need for his dad to always have him there when he comes out of hospital and to be there throughout his hospital stays is untenable given the distance and the frailty of his dad's health. I guess it does not feel fair on us to prioritise his dad's needs above all else.

For context, FIL has no family other than OH. He has some good friends but they are too elderly to help. We offered to find FIL a flat near us or a residential home. He did not want to move - fair enough he's lived in his home town for 70 years now, but it's not that he's not welcome here. We've also offered to find a home for him in his own home town but he's not keen on that and again fair enough, he's a man who likes his own space and needs a lot of quiet.

Am I just being unsupportive do you think?

He likes things the way he likes things and that makes change and social mixing aversive for him

Equally he needs to change his ways now he's not able to cope alone.

Your DH sounds lovely. I'd be doing my bit by holding the fort at home and accepting that as he gets more frail he'll need more support. We moved my Dad in which made things easier all round but if that's not possible then it's just a case of muddling along. It's a really tough time when parents deteriorate.

Get a live in carer, get a money plan to fund this, sorted, assuming he owns house?
He could live for a while yet

If your DH couldn’t work from home how would he manage this?

I think it is probably time to consider more care, whether that is live in carer or a home. Or his father moves closer to you. It isn’t really practical for him to be running up there constantly.

I’m pretty sure your son will live to see another birthday party, @bareniceties.
I’d like to remind you that someday, if you’re fortunate, you’ll be 90, and perhaps in the exact same shoes that your FIL is presently in.
Looking ahead, how would it make you feel knowing your son’s wife was complaining about your son looking after you? It’s a very realistic scenario, obviously.
I looked after both my parents — after errands one day, I arrived at their house to see 11 police cars parked in front. My dad had violently committed suicide.
So I’d give up several of my two kids’ birthday parties and other celebrations just for one more day with my dad.
I think you should think more about your husband and his relationship with his dad and less about one birthday party. But that’s just my perspective.

I'm glad my dh wasn't like you. I moved hours from my family when we married, we are self employed working together but when my dm's health declined I spent a lot of time back in my childhood home helping her and my df. Not once did my dh complain, in fact he told me right at the start that he wouldn't tell me he missed me because he was afraid it would but more pressure on me, I worked from my parents house when I could but my dh picked up the slack. I spent approx 8 months a year with my parents for three years before my dm died. Shortly afterwards my df took ill and I moved back and spent 4 months nursing him, fortunately he recovered but once again, absolute understanding from my dh. Right now it's his dm who needs help so I work extra hard, longer hours and weekends so he can take care of his dm, I will never expect him to do otherwise. I feel sorry for your dh.

I agree that you need to consider longer-term plans for your FIL, but I also don’t think you should begrudge your OH this time with him. Your children are teenagers now and you don’t need babysitters to go out in the evening if you want to. Not overnights, of course, but that will happen soon enough. Let your OH spend this time with his Dad, you and your children have decades together.

It really sounds like he needs support . . I would support your DH in staying to see how this should look as it gives most realistic overview. Is a live in carers an option? Carers x4 times a day?

Your level of selfishness is shocking. Your children are teens, you don't need help to manage them, and your poor husband's father is 90, FGS. An elderly, frail, lonely man needs the love, support and companionship of his son, yet all you think about is yourself.

Sorry OP but yabu. A social occasion might have to be cancelled, really? Three times a year? Get a babysitter. One won't fall in to your lap, you have to find one. Yes you don't have any family there to help, neither do I, neither do lots of people. It's normal. You work around it.

Last year my 90 year old father who was in pretty good general health for his age was admitted to hospital because he became unwell and his sodium levels were low.

He was only supposed to be there for a few days until they got him sorted out and he was talking, eating and chatting away.

He died there ten days later from 'Hospital Acquired Pneumonia'.

Any hospitalisation of the elderly for whatever reason can very quickly end badly.

It sounds like he needs an occupational therapist and social worker to assess him and have a conversation with your DH about what his needs are. It’s incredibly important that the right package of care is in place prior to discharge, otherwise he’ll be straight back in again. It’s a lot easier if your DH is there and can see what’s actually happening for a couple of days because he knows his dad’s base level, and will be able to tell if he’s putting in a good front for the carers. Him taking the time now might mean he’s not having to do another trip in a fortnight.

Do the dc have friends they could stay with overnight when you are out overnight? Evenings I would just leave them for a few hours. My dd was out baby sitting from about 14 and I would leave my ds home alone for a few hours at 12. I can understand your disappointment for the birthday party though but FIL will need support. Dh needs to be clear with the hospital that he is only there temporarily so the right care can be put in place.

Totally get your point but sorry, with your partner on this.

Hi dad is 90 and in poor health so sorry you are being unreasonable. Your poor hubby must be feeling like he’s in between a rock and a hard place.
At 13 & 14 unless you have missed out your kids have disabilities they are old enough to walk to school alone and old enough to stay home alone.

I've whatsapped OP this morning to apologise and reassure him he has my full support.

Yes kids can stay alone in the day time. Eldest is able to make some simple pasta teas too which is good as I don't always get back in time to make dinner for them. I think she is old enough to learn to cook more meals too and I'll start teaching her so they don't have to eat that all the time when he's away because it is becoming quite frequent now (4 weeks away in the last 3 months). It's good for her to extend her repetoire anyway and at 13 my son can also learn some simple meals.

When things are calmer I need to talk to OP about money too. He earns much less when he is at his dads as he is doing so many errands for him and getting lots of calls from his lovely neighbours who want to know how he is (which can take hours every day though we love the community up there). Our finances are under pressure so maybe we need to think about how we can get him some temporary work in addition to his main work so he can do more hours when he is here to make up for the short-fall when he is with his dad. There is lots of NHS bank work down here which you can accept at short notice.

I think the new plan needs to be that this will happen a lot as when we face that we can make life fit around it. At the moment we are just getting floored every time it does.

I do agree that FIL might need to be more open to the idea of going into care but you can't make a compos mentis man do so esp not when in reality his son is filling any gaps left by his decision to stay at home. Money is not the issue. He does own his home. It's not a hugely expensive one but it would fund a decent amount of care and we'd help him to negotiate how to release the money/ sell the house.

Did you actually need to postpone a teenager's birthday plans simply because your OH wasn't around and do you need to cancel your social engagements too? Surely these can go ahead - just with OH not being present.

I'm sorry OP, I don't understand why you're even questioning this. I would absolutely want my DH to be there for his elderly, unwell father if he'd just come out of hospital. I'm a healthy woman in my 40s and could easily cope without him for a couple of weeks - even if this repeatedly happened it would be fine! What is not fine would be to leave a frail 90 year old man alone when he's just returned from hospital. I couldn't bear it! How can you be worrying about social engagements in this situation? Just get on with life when your husband is absebt.

Did hospital pressure your dh for this rather than fil being assessed for the increase in care whilst still in hospital?
Could his current care be increased?
Could he have a hot meal delivered daily?

A lot of what your DH will be checking is what should be checked before he is discharged. Be careful, as others have said, your FIL isn’t saying his relatives will be caring for him. My DH’s Nan did this once after she came out of hospital and she was discharged without a suitable care programme in place. The second time she had to go in, MIL made sure hospital were aware carers were required (relatives all worked so couldn’t be available all the time) before she was discharged. After a number of hospital admissions she had to go into a nursing home as she needed more care than a couple of carers visiting each day. The Nan had always been adamant she didn’t want to go into a home but actually when there her quality of life improved.

I understand that your DH wants to be there, but it doesn’t sound sustainable for the long term from a financial point of view. Other things need to be put in place

I think YABU

Ofcourse he should be with his dad

A parent can look after a thousand children but a thousand children can't look after one parent

Will you be ok taking an inheritance off this elderly man, who is all alone in hospital?

Tbh three times a year is nothing

I didn't actually read all your post I gave up at the whole social events 🥴 heart breaking to hear how detached you feel.

I thought you were going to say you had pre-schoolers…. But teens? Words fail me. Frankly even if you had small children I would say you are being U. Plenty of us have had dhs working away for weeks; and plenty of us have had ailing parents whose last years disrupt life - needing help and even dying at “inconvenient” times. It’s the way of the world, and whingeing about a teenager missing a birthday party - strewth. Can’t he just have a sleepover instead?

You are currently teaching your children how to manage you when you get old.

You need to adapt your home to be suitable for carers comming in twice a day and pick put a nice care home. You have a 75% chance you will need both.

Sorry you are being a bit heartless.

What is the birthday party that needs your husband there? If it's an organised activity would a parent need to participate?

Could you do something else instead and then your husband can arrange the activity when he is back?