DH's ENTJ behaviour - I'm losing my mind!

[printmeanicephoto]

Really struggling with my ENTJ husband (Myers Briggs personality type). He's always been very lawyer-like, contractual and efficiency-driven. I feel that this works well for him at work (he's not a lawyer btw) but it doesn't necessarily translate well for a marriage relationship.

I feel like I'm going mad because we talk around in circles and we don't seem to make much headway with our issues. Increasingly he has taken to looking up words in the dictionary to prove to me that I'm using them incorrectly when speaking to him (I'm not).

I also feel like I'm being gas-lit when I'm trying to explain how I feel about something and he then focuses in on one word that I've said. It then becomes all about that word to the extent that my original heart-felt sharing/request becomes completely invalid. I recently said that I found an incidence of his behaviour "very rude". He then went to great pains to explain why it was just "rude" and not "very rude", and that I was over inflating the issue by using the word "very". I just felt he needed to get the spirit of what I was saying. This "very" word focus completely derailed the original conversation and I was left totally unheard and confused. This happens regularly. He also rarely apologies for anything and if he does, everything needs to be dissected first.

He recently gave me a hand written note that looked frighteningly like a contract to explain that he was withdrawing his previous offer to help me with something work related unless I stop "weaponising" the fact that I think he may have some Aspergers traits. He doesn't think he does. I don't think I weaponised it, I was just expressing some concerns about how his behaviour is affecting our marriage. The note even had dots for me to sign my name at the bottom! I'm afraid to say that I tore it up in front of him in utter frustration.

We've been together for over 20 years and have teenage kids. This unempathetic behaviour is not new. Not sure if he has mild Aspergers, is a narc or is just being an ENTJ. For years I thought he was just being awkward but now I just think it's how his brain is wired. I want things to work, but I'm running out of energy and sanity.

Other than suggesting turning to drink, any tips/thoughts?

I think you should move away from using MBTI as a basis for analysing your husband. Its flaky as hell and makes everything hard work. Just discuss things like normal couples or go to someone who can train you to commuincate effectively. Forget the MBTI.

LTB

He sounds insufferable. Regardless of why, you’ve explained to him that the way he deals with discussions like this is frustrating and he keeps doing it. You’re not going to change him. You either have to find a way to internally deal with his behaviour without it driving you mad, or you leave.

I love that you tore up his bloody contract TBH!

FWIW my ex was similar - he would pick up on a word, or say “you’ve already said that, can you stop repeating yourself” or say my tone was aggressive etc just to make me stop talking and spend so much time worrying about volume/tone/word choice/repetition that I couldn’t concentrate on my words.

These types are all about winning, not understanding. A discussion between spouses should be a way to try and communicate with each other, not a battle. Ex used to say “I just can’t win here” and I’d be like “why are you trying to win?! Why can’t you listen to what I’m saying and just try and empathise?” You’re on a hiding to nothing with a man who doesn’t want to get it.

I don't think the examples you give are necessarily due to ENTJ traits. In fact ENTJs are usually quite charismatic and good at drawing people in to their way of thinking whereas he sounds like an epic failure on both counts. Sounds like he's just a dick and/or you're not very compatible.

He does sound awful (sorry!) but I don't think MBTI will help. Could a marriage counsellor get through to him? Have you tried that?

ThisisMax - thanks for your thoughts. Yes, I am conscious that MBTI is not 100% accurate and agree that there's a danger in putting too much store in it. I just feel totally confused and I'm worried that I'm being emotionally abused (albeit not intentionally possibly iygwim). Either way it's affecting my mental health (and DH's too).

That's much more like ESTJ or ISTJ, so it sounds ike he got his type somewhat wrong - but even so, it's quite extreme so I agree he's likely to be on the Asperger's spectrum. Not sure what can be dome about it apart from couples therapy with someone who understands asperger's.

RoyKentsChestHair - what you've said about your ex sounds so familiar... if I say anything more than once it doesn't go down well!

ENTJs are really not pedantic, they can struggle with detail generally as they are dynamic and not the most patient to say the least, to add to Hundred s post.

@CatAndHisKit

ENTJs are really not pedantic, they can struggle with detail generally as they are dynamic and not the most patient to say the least, to add to Hundred s post.

I definitely agree with this - and I'm an ENTJ myself.

He has said in the past that he may be more INTJ possibly, or in the middle, although he did come out as an ENTJ on the MBTI test.

Patience is definitely an issue.

Have a look at the 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership. If you can get him to take the leap into trying it..it might be helpful

There are very few ENTJs, they are born leaders and as any other personality type, full of positive traits.

What you are describing is a narcissist, nothing to do with the MB personality description, which by the way, is and will be totally useless until people, in big numbers, start tattooing their personality types on their forehead s and we all carry a MB manual of personality descriptions under our arm.

Forget your personality type, have you put any time into trying to understand what I am saying here, or have all your efforts been focused on nitpicking the precision of my vocabulary? You wouldn’t treat a client like this and I’m your wife.

Your entire post could have been summed up in the sentence "my DH is an arsehole". I suggest you act accordingly.

No this kind of shit is not neurodivergence and there's no such thing as "mild Asperger's". If someone has it they'll be affected, sufficiently badly to be diagnosed!

He's shutting you down and has no intention of sorting out the problems in your marriage, most probably because whatever it is isn't a problem for him only for you.

Is this about the usual, housework and parenting, since you mentioned him "helping" you? FYI it's not "helping" if he also lives in the house and the DC are also his, it's called doing his fair share without expecting praise, payment or favours in return!

He is just a dickhead and a controlling one at that. There is actually a name for someone who has to be right no matter what you talk about. You could see the grass is green and he will have to argue no there are bla bla bla..Just to argue and throw you off balance and you are so right it is gaslighting and trying to undermine you and make you lose your confidence. Tell him you will wipe your bum with his ridiculous contract or letter. He sounds insufferable and it must be hell to be dealing with that on a daily basis. Any time he starts that crap just tell him stop and if he does not say well I am walking away as not dealing with your narcissistic gaslighting ways anymore. Make changes as he will get worse. My heart goes out to you and maybe it is time to make big changes in your life as he will only get worse. Tell him if he does not change he is leaving.

I just can't meet his expectations in the house chore-wise. I've always told him that he treats me like an employee. I always feel that I'm under-performing in his eyes. I'm a bit messy, granted but not massively so. He is VERY chore driven and task orientated. Like he has a sand-timer on his shoulder.

Sorry, for clarifying, I don't mean there's no undiagnosed people out there, just that there's no "having it a bit". A person either has it or they don't. Although it affects different people in different ways, if someone isn't affected in all the main (pretty serious) ways, they won't meet the criteria for diagnosis.

Why do you need to know "why" OP? Your DH clearly doesn't see a problem so isn't going to look into getting anything diagnosed or treated. Why do you need more information than this. You've been miserable for 20 years? And what, you fancy another 20 the same? You can't make him who you want him to be. He is who he is.

It takes two to make a marriage work, you can't do it all by yourself. There's no magic words that'll make him want to change or be a team with you. He knows you're unhappy and he doesn't care enough to do anything about it. What's wrong with you (low self esteem or something?) that that isn't enough information to have you walking away?

So he does do his bit, but it's ALL about fairness in his eyes. He makes things all about what needs to be done in the house. I do my bit.

Def seeing some ASC in your description, finding the need to work in absolutes. My shorthand has always been "if you can't put it in a spread sheet, I'm going to find it difficult to cope with".

Having said that, it's not common to all neurodiverse people, but it's often one of the stereotypes, which is why it's difficult to admit to .

It is NOT an excuse for making your life impossible. Usually the more anxious I get, the more rigid I get, so it maybe about not knowing how to deal with your emotional needs, and normal expectations.

BUT. this is NOT your fault, and if he refuses to acknowledge it may be an issue, that is his right, but doesn't mean you have to live with it.

I have no magic wand, but yes, I think ASC is a definite possibility, and if he was willing to look into it, you may find some help for both of you.

Unfortunately, if you have created an extremely rigid structure so that you can manage your life, mask your most difficult traits, and appear, as far as possible, to be neurotypical, it can feel as if someone is suggesting the dismantle your whole coping structure. Certainly the impression I get from my DH . Despite my own situation I think he thinks that's fine for me, but he is fine just the way he is and no self reflection, delving deeper is necessary.

You don't have to meet his expectations! You're allowed to be you, allowed to be different. Is just if two people are very different and a compromise can't be found, then they're incompatible.

What happens if you say no? And tell him you've hoovered/tidied/etc good enough and are stopping now? His perfectionist tendencies is his problem not yours. If he's giving you hell for having ordinary standards then it's abuse.

You're not an employee so he doesn't get to decide he's right and you must obey. Start telling him you've said no and you're not going to discuss it further. Discussion is for reasonable people not arseholes who want to use your words/grammar/language as a stick to beat you with. Fuck that shit!

This is all so helpful thank you! I just can't connect with him and am always watching my words. Empathy is at the heart of intimacy and connection and without that things are tricky. I just don't think I'm cut out for more years of dealing with this.

What's keeping me here is complicated. Kids and my faith is the short answer. Divorce is not encouraged (Christian), but I know my church would rally round and be there for me whatever I decided.

X posted there, but glad you clarified your position @WildPoinsettia - I agree you cannot have slight ASC BUT you can be very very good at masking and compensating.

I absolutely can see this behaviour as a way of making his life work on, the problem is that it is at the expense of his wife. That is not ok. Also, no one is going to suggest he gets a diagnosis/ might have it, except OP.

No GP is going to have time/ insight into what is going on behind the normal front he can present during a 7 minute appointment!

@printmeanicephoto - my heart goes out to you so much. My DH is nothing like a perfectionist as yours, but some huge similarities.

I also stay for myriad reasons, but honestly, the main one is that my autistic child, and, bizarrely, my husband.