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Original poster

DH's ENTJ behaviour - I'm losing my mind!

192 replies

printmeanicephoto · 17/02/2022 00:29

Really struggling with my ENTJ husband (Myers Briggs personality type). He's always been very lawyer-like, contractual and efficiency-driven. I feel that this works well for him at work (he's not a lawyer btw) but it doesn't necessarily translate well for a marriage relationship.

I feel like I'm going mad because we talk around in circles and we don't seem to make much headway with our issues. Increasingly he has taken to looking up words in the dictionary to prove to me that I'm using them incorrectly when speaking to him (I'm not).

I also feel like I'm being gas-lit when I'm trying to explain how I feel about something and he then focuses in on one word that I've said. It then becomes all about that word to the extent that my original heart-felt sharing/request becomes completely invalid. I recently said that I found an incidence of his behaviour "very rude". He then went to great pains to explain why it was just "rude" and not "very rude", and that I was over inflating the issue by using the word "very". I just felt he needed to get the spirit of what I was saying. This "very" word focus completely derailed the original conversation and I was left totally unheard and confused. This happens regularly. He also rarely apologies for anything and if he does, everything needs to be dissected first.

He recently gave me a hand written note that looked frighteningly like a contract to explain that he was withdrawing his previous offer to help me with something work related unless I stop "weaponising" the fact that I think he may have some Aspergers traits. He doesn't think he does. I don't think I weaponised it, I was just expressing some concerns about how his behaviour is affecting our marriage. The note even had dots for me to sign my name at the bottom! I'm afraid to say that I tore it up in front of him in utter frustration.

We've been together for over 20 years and have teenage kids. This unempathetic behaviour is not new. Not sure if he has mild Aspergers, is a narc or is just being an ENTJ. For years I thought he was just being awkward but now I just think it's how his brain is wired. I want things to work, but I'm running out of energy and sanity.

Other than suggesting turning to drink, any tips/thoughts?

OP posts:
RachelGreeneGreep · 17/02/2022 09:51

@AttilaTheMeerkat

Kudupoo

He does not sound lovely at all. His "massive bizarre quirk" as you call it is he being abusive towards you. He will further beat you down completely if you stay which is what he wants and where he wants you. You have a choice here re this man, you do not have to grow flowers in the hole he's put you in.

Exactly. There's nothing lovely about a person who treats anyone like that, still less, his partner or wife.
lborgia · 17/02/2022 09:52

@newbiename - you'll be relieved to know that, in general, those who were discussing autism said that this wouldn't mean OP should put up with his behaviour.

HTH.

k1233 · 17/02/2022 09:53

Do you want to be doing this for the next thirty years of your life? What positives come from your relationship? The ENTJ is a major misdirect, to stop you questioning his behaviour. Don't worry about that. The only question is does he build you up or does his behaviour wear you down? What I'm reading from your posts is that your thoughts and feelings are irrelevant. He is dismissive of how you feel and refuses to listen instead deflecting attention from your thoughts and concerns to immaterial semantics. Very rude or just plain rude - really is irrelevant. He's rude and focussing on the semantics removes the need for him to reflect on his behaviour.

Maybe that's a tact to try in future discussions. Bluntly state you will not discuss semantics. Your feelings are valid, not matter how much he demands proof. You feel the way you do and that is what you are discussing, not your vocabulary and sentence structure. Do mot be drawn into examples or instances.

Original poster
printmeanicephoto · 17/02/2022 10:02

My kids know that I am unhappy.

My son exhibits some autistic traits, not diagnosed but incredibly high functioning. A psychologist had a few sessions with my son a few years back as he was struggling socially and said that she wasn't sure if he was on the spectrum or not and if he was that it was very mild. He is lovely and very sweet but very introverted. My daughter is much more like me and is very social. They both seem fairly self-confident in themselves and ok in their own skin, although my son in a very quiet way.

Mostly DH is fine with the kids and nit-picks much less with them than with me. He has always put their needs above mine and sometimes he puts me down in front of them in a subtle way.

I occasionally have to explain to my son why dad's behaviour upsets me, purely because I don't want him to think it's ok to behave like that. DS is nearly an adult.

DH and I do try hard to keep our conversations private, but walls are thin...

OP posts:
OnaBegonia · 17/02/2022 10:05

@newbiename
Yes, the OP seems determined to have a label thus excusing his cunty behaviour.

Oblomov22 · 17/02/2022 10:21

What do you think happens after you get a diagnosis of ASD, for an adult, or a child. Mostly not-a-lot. You can read all the books you like, the explosive child, pretending to be normal. What then?

I took the stance that the world is quite uncompromising and that it was my parental duty to at least try and smoothe out of my sons rough edges. Recognising that I can't rewire his brain. But I can try and make him aware, so if he keeps doing things or struggles socially, he recognises falling into the trap of doing what I naturally do, I have to try and stop this. Just to ease the journey through life.

I try and do the same to myself. We probably all should. Trying to be more self-aware, always.

But this takes open mindedness. You can't force someone to be receptive to Counselling you can't force an alcoholic to not drink, it has to come from within. And OP Dh doesn't have this. So she's fighting a losing battle.

Plus you are doing your children a parenting disservice, allowing them to see these relationships, and subconsciously normalise it.

I'd still push again, with a different GP for an ASD referral for your son. I'd sit there and politely insist.

AdamRyan · 17/02/2022 10:34

Maybe that's a tact to try in future discussions. Bluntly state you will not discuss semantics. Your feelings are valid, not matter how much he demands proof. You feel the way you do and that is what you are discussing, not your vocabulary and sentence structure. Do mot be drawn into examples or instances.
Definitely

Knittingchamp · 17/02/2022 10:41

I don't know what the MBTJ is but why all these labels? You're just not compatible and it is making you miserable. Isn't that enough to know, for both of you?

Original poster
printmeanicephoto · 17/02/2022 10:42

We have tried different forms of counselling 3 times, sometimes over a decent period of time. But DH always focused on what I needed to change and that we need to "work together", rather than anything that he needed to work on.

The winning thing really resonates. He often uses legal jargon like "in the dock", "indicted" and talks about how a judge would respond if he heard our discussions. If I get my way with something he sometimes says "you've won" in a disgruntled fashion.

OP posts:
hairymorag · 17/02/2022 10:48

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Cherrysoup · 17/02/2022 10:50

Honestly, have you ever just tried telling him he’s talking shit? This sort of behaviour would bore me to tears. He thinks he’s a lawyer, he’s not, nor should he be judging you. I don’t think separating would be frowned upon, I guarantee all of your friends would ask why it took so long once you do it! Do you really want to live with this for the next 30 years? How will it be once the children leave?

Original poster
printmeanicephoto · 17/02/2022 10:51

He can be very nit-picky with the kids, but not nearly as much as with me.

OP posts:
Original poster
printmeanicephoto · 17/02/2022 10:52

...and then I have to intervene if I think he's being nit picky with them.

OP posts:
LeifSan · 17/02/2022 11:06

Imagine if you had a husband who saw you as an equal partner in life, not his number one competition.

Stravaig · 17/02/2022 11:09

It sounds like you're both locked into viewing the other person as the problem, the one who needs to change. The behaviours you describe are harmful for both of you, and the kids. If you find counselling valuable, it might be worth going by yourself, to support you through separation and divorce.

TatianaBis · 17/02/2022 11:09

@Cherrysoup

Honestly, have you ever just tried telling him he’s talking shit? This sort of behaviour would bore me to tears. He thinks he’s a lawyer, he’s not, nor should he be judging you. I don’t think separating would be frowned upon, I guarantee all of your friends would ask why it took so long once you do it! Do you really want to live with this for the next 30 years? How will it be once the children leave?
Well maybe he is a lawyer, but if you treat your partner as you would your opposing barrister, your relationship is likely to run aground.
Cuck00soup · 17/02/2022 11:09

Your children are living in a house witnessing an abusive relationship and I’m sorry to say, it will impact upon their mental health.

They may or may not be neurodiverse. Any assessment would be better done once they are no longer experiencing trauma every day.

And again, as has already been posted several times, counselling is not recommended when there is an abusive partner,

Cuck00soup · 17/02/2022 11:10

Sorry, couples counselling isn’t recommended. It might however be helpful to you as an individual.

OnwardsAndSideways1 · 17/02/2022 11:34

If you've had three lots of counselling with him, surely you've realised this is a dead duck of a marriage, OP.

Seeing your mum devalued and bullied by your dad is a terrible thing for the children, he seems to see you as his whipping boy in life.

Honestly, why do this? I'm not really getting it.

OnwardsAndSideways1 · 17/02/2022 11:35

The idea of individual counselling is a very good one, as I think you will need a lot of support as if you announce you are leaving him, his behaviour will become worse, more negative, more lawyerly and just awful because he has to win everything and on this one he's going to lose. I'd get a great counsellor, a great lawyer and emotionally detach from this man, leave him to be right all by himself.

coffeeisthebest · 17/02/2022 11:37

I grew up in similar dynamics to what you describe. My parent's were at pains to be 'right' and both allied themselves with others outside their relationship who could prove their point. Every fall out with me was about who was 'right'. They had no time for me and were in a continual locked drama about how fascinatingly 'right' or 'wronged' they were. My mental health has been a shit show in adulthood. I wish one of them could have been adult enough to walk away and get therapy. But they were too busy squabbling. Like you. And labelling.

HaveringWavering · 17/02/2022 11:44

How did you even fall in love with him in the first place?

Original poster
printmeanicephoto · 17/02/2022 11:53

I think the labelling is a way of me trying to process things, to make sense of the last two decades. And also in the vague hope that a diagnosis might unlock some help, support and tools to help me (and him). Does that make sense? But you're probably right guys, it ultimately doesn't matter and he clearly doesn't want to be labelled.

OP posts:
Cuck00soup · 17/02/2022 11:57

Could you accept a label for yourself?

You need to be the woman who protected her DC, the woman who saw her husband for who is was and moved on.

TatianaBis · 17/02/2022 12:19

@printmeanicephoto

I think the labelling is a way of me trying to process things, to make sense of the last two decades. And also in the vague hope that a diagnosis might unlock some help, support and tools to help me (and him). Does that make sense? But you're probably right guys, it ultimately doesn't matter and he clearly doesn't want to be labelled.
I don’t think we have enough to go on to speculate about ASD - but let’s say hypothetically he was diagnosed ASD, what would that change?

There are so many women hoping that if their partner got therapy they would change into nice kind supportive loving partners - but the reality is they continue just the same with a few books on their condition on the shelf.

Therapy for ASD is focused on helping that person navigate their traits and the world - it’s not a finishing school to train them to behave with their spouse. The tools he’s given may change anything about the way he relates to you,

Honestly diagnosis will not ‘unlock’ what you hope it will. It’s a big red herring.