DH's ENTJ behaviour - I'm losing my mind!

[printmeanicephoto]

Really struggling with my ENTJ husband (Myers Briggs personality type). He's always been very lawyer-like, contractual and efficiency-driven. I feel that this works well for him at work (he's not a lawyer btw) but it doesn't necessarily translate well for a marriage relationship.

I feel like I'm going mad because we talk around in circles and we don't seem to make much headway with our issues. Increasingly he has taken to looking up words in the dictionary to prove to me that I'm using them incorrectly when speaking to him (I'm not).

I also feel like I'm being gas-lit when I'm trying to explain how I feel about something and he then focuses in on one word that I've said. It then becomes all about that word to the extent that my original heart-felt sharing/request becomes completely invalid. I recently said that I found an incidence of his behaviour "very rude". He then went to great pains to explain why it was just "rude" and not "very rude", and that I was over inflating the issue by using the word "very". I just felt he needed to get the spirit of what I was saying. This "very" word focus completely derailed the original conversation and I was left totally unheard and confused. This happens regularly. He also rarely apologies for anything and if he does, everything needs to be dissected first.

He recently gave me a hand written note that looked frighteningly like a contract to explain that he was withdrawing his previous offer to help me with something work related unless I stop "weaponising" the fact that I think he may have some Aspergers traits. He doesn't think he does. I don't think I weaponised it, I was just expressing some concerns about how his behaviour is affecting our marriage. The note even had dots for me to sign my name at the bottom! I'm afraid to say that I tore it up in front of him in utter frustration.

We've been together for over 20 years and have teenage kids. This unempathetic behaviour is not new. Not sure if he has mild Aspergers, is a narc or is just being an ENTJ. For years I thought he was just being awkward but now I just think it's how his brain is wired. I want things to work, but I'm running out of energy and sanity.

Other than suggesting turning to drink, any tips/thoughts?

As a Christian I think it’s your duty to let him be free and happy. He’s obviously having as much trouble coping with you as you are him.
You’ve told him his behaviour is rushing the marriage, he’s told you the way you do stuff is annoying.
Be free and free him. You’ll be happier.

I can't believe you've put up with this shit for so long. Why hasn't this bothered you before?

I quite like all the ESFJ stuff. I know a bit about AS aswell. But this is more than that, it's being a fxxking cock. More than that, it's a lack of respect and a lack of love for you. I don't say that lightly but I seriously really mean this, think about it. When he argues, focusing on the word very, he's so pedantic, so petty, he misses the bigger picture.

But what is worse, is that you already have sat him down and explained how hurtful you find this. And that's the point. If the person THEN doesn't have the empathy, social skills to recognise that they are doing this, and more importantly don't have the desire to change, to correct this minor issue, thus make the other person happy then they have a real problem. basically narcissistic and don't actually care what you think. that's the problem- is that your husband is actually so selfish he doesn't care that he is hurting you and that is a bigger problem than whether he is autistic or ENTJ.

I bet now you come to think of it traits were there right from the start, but you chose to ignore them. Why? do you have low self-esteem? why did you ever get into this relationship and get married in the first place?

You really don't have to stay with someone who makes you so miserable. Marriage should not be a test of endurance. You've been so ground down that you see it as normal, but really, it isn't

This situation sounds equally as frustrating for both of you - your communication styles are not compatible (although it does appear you are trying harder to understand him that the other way around). You don’t say if you are generally happy but perhaps therapy can help if you want to move forward.

Mainly I just can’t get past all the people who are zeroing on in your mention of ENTJ and ignoring the spirit of what you’re saying 😂

Myers Briggs has about as much evidence to support it as the zodiac.

Blaming his behaviour on a piece of pseudoscience is excusing him responsibility for his own actions.

Focus on the specific things which are making the relationship unhappy for you and what you want to do to change your own life for the better (with or without him).

Why are you so set on diagnosing him? Is this his weirdness rubbing off on you OP? Unpleasant twat is a title as good as any for him. If you went to a divorce lawyer and said, "I want to divorce my husband because he's an unpleasant twat" He/she would understand and set the ball rolling with some advice on where to start.

I suggest you go to a divorce lawyer and do this. Inside a year your life will be revolutionised.

His behaviours are probably not as a result of his personality anyway. He probably just knows what pushes your buttons and uses that knowledge.

Oh gosh. Your story is so similar to mine, @printmeanicephoto

I have to say that marriage guidance didn’t work for us, because he never felt he should change anything. I was, absolutely and utterly his domestic PA. Nothing I did or achieved in and around the house was good enough. His entire life became very black and white and there was no compromise, despite my repeated efforts to engage with him.

And yes, every time I spoke out, my turn of phrase was picked apart, until the original spirit of what I was trying to say dissolved.

There was gaslighting, coercive and financial control thrown in. Nightmare.

I’m out. I left 18 months ago and slowly my sanity and ‘the old me’ is returning. My friends and family are delighted to see me as I should be. Not the shell of a person I’ve become.

Divorce nearly finalised.

And I’m Catholic.

Is this a new thing or... ?? To me it sounds like he may have something going on himself wether that be something long term neurological or something where he's felt he's lost control and is now acting in a very.... structured and rigid manner. Regardless if you're not happy you're not happy and if he knows that but still does it your anger and resentment will grow.

I meant to say that I’d known him for 30 years and married for 24. If I’d seen those traits to start with, I’d have not touched him with a barge pole… and I told him that when I left.

I think his focus on "winning" may be altering how you are thinking because it makes you focus on the contest versus the communication-he is skewing everything to a win/lose and you are being carried along.

FWIW I am ENTJ and don't recognise any of that-I'm not sure how helpful labelling it is-the way he is behaving is the more crucial element and unless he can get treatment or help for his pedantic behaviour then the focus on it is a bit de-railing. Unless it helps you.

Just reading the post above as I finish typing mine and I think she- @Nomoresmoresthensnores has some very interesting points!

It sounds like a very immature defence mechanism rather than a personality type or neurological difference. Would he go to couples therapy with you? It might take a few sessions (and they are expensive) but a therapist is trained to work though those sort of defences. I don’t think you can do it yourself especially as your partner knows you’re not likely to leave so he doesn’t have much reason to engage.

What you describe is very much like someone who has Asperger's traits. We have a family member like this, who has a proper diagnosis, and who displays this type of "channelled thinking". It is not easy to live with. Our family member accepts their diagnosis and has read up extensively on their own condition, but insight doesn't stop them from being/behaving the way they do, it's just who they are.

You need to decide whether you can live with this for the rest of your life or whether you might be better leaving?

The ENTJ doesn't really come into it, it's an interesting way of describing some personality traits but not all ENTJ's behave as you describe (or any other Myer-Briggs types) so it's not a helpful way of explaining how your husband is.

Or he could just be a pita. Life is too short.

He is deflecting OP, turning your efforts tondisciluss feelings into a discussion about one word. He isn't listening. Or hearing. Or acknowledging your feelings. Perhaps he doesn't/can't understand them, or doesn't care, but it isn't working for you is it? You're frustrated, angry, disappointed?

OP you can't make him into someone who suddenly gets it, understands feelings or hears you. He has shown you who he is, an dif you expect him to suddenly become different, you will be disappointed repeatedly.

I am sorry OP. I've been in a relationship like this too. He once told me that I put too much store by feelings, that many people in the world have so few of their basic needs met that my wishing to be happy was a luxury. That was a turning point - he didn't even believe that feeling happy was an acceptable thing to want.

You find me a single lawyer on Mumsnet (solicitor, barrister, legal exec, I’ll take ‘em all) who has tried to make their partner sign a document like that, and I’ll send you £100.

The only “personality type” that does that is: ARSEHOLE.

It’s sad you sounded embarrassed about tearing it up - and not proud. Well done for doing that!

From your opening post, you sound as though you swallowed the book.

Just live your own life and let him live his. Your children are now teenagers so you can do that. Chill.

The two of you need to stop labelling/defining/explaining one another and start listening instead . A marriage counsellor will help with this.

@Bromse

From your opening post, you sound as though you swallowed the book.

Just live your own life and let him live his. Your children are now teenagers so you can do that. Chill.

Only unfortunately the “book” isn’t an actual academic paper, but “Psychologies” magazine, or a Cosmo tea break quiz 🙄

What's he like with the kids? Can he listen to them? Do they get issued with contracts about chores, or how he'll only help them if...? Does he have OK expectations of them or are they under pressure?
The wanting to win all the time and analysing the mechanics of everything I say while deliberately ignoring the meaning would make me feel miserable and angry. It's not how you have a conversation, he's not open to listening to you - he's treating you like an adversary.

MB is about preferences in things like decision making or communication. I’m an IS married to an EN. We are currently buying a car. DH likes to see, touch and smell the vehicles; I like to study MPG and compare features. We respect each other’s different processes and are able to make decisions that we both agree on.

None of that is happening in the situation you describe OP.

It doesn’t matter why your DH is abusive, he is.
Does he want to change? I suspect not.
You can’t change him and mustn’t change you.

I would look at the freedom programme and contact women’s aid. You might need time to process it, but you are being abused.
Once you have come to terms with the reality of the situation, you can plan your next steps. Good luck.

If he likes things written down write it down for him. At a time when he’s calm. Explain in writing the things that are upsetting you and tell him you’d like to have a discussion about the concepts, not about whether you’ve used the correct words or not.

"If he likes things written down write it down for him. At a time when he’s calm. Explain in writing the things that are upsetting you and tell him you’d like to have a discussion about the concepts, not about whether you’ve used the correct words or not."

Not sure this approach will work for arseholes like this guy...

My sympathies OP he sounds like a nightmare.

Does he behave like this to the kids as well?