DH's ENTJ behaviour - I'm losing my mind!

[printmeanicephoto]

Really struggling with my ENTJ husband (Myers Briggs personality type). He's always been very lawyer-like, contractual and efficiency-driven. I feel that this works well for him at work (he's not a lawyer btw) but it doesn't necessarily translate well for a marriage relationship.

I feel like I'm going mad because we talk around in circles and we don't seem to make much headway with our issues. Increasingly he has taken to looking up words in the dictionary to prove to me that I'm using them incorrectly when speaking to him (I'm not).

I also feel like I'm being gas-lit when I'm trying to explain how I feel about something and he then focuses in on one word that I've said. It then becomes all about that word to the extent that my original heart-felt sharing/request becomes completely invalid. I recently said that I found an incidence of his behaviour "very rude". He then went to great pains to explain why it was just "rude" and not "very rude", and that I was over inflating the issue by using the word "very". I just felt he needed to get the spirit of what I was saying. This "very" word focus completely derailed the original conversation and I was left totally unheard and confused. This happens regularly. He also rarely apologies for anything and if he does, everything needs to be dissected first.

He recently gave me a hand written note that looked frighteningly like a contract to explain that he was withdrawing his previous offer to help me with something work related unless I stop "weaponising" the fact that I think he may have some Aspergers traits. He doesn't think he does. I don't think I weaponised it, I was just expressing some concerns about how his behaviour is affecting our marriage. The note even had dots for me to sign my name at the bottom! I'm afraid to say that I tore it up in front of him in utter frustration.

We've been together for over 20 years and have teenage kids. This unempathetic behaviour is not new. Not sure if he has mild Aspergers, is a narc or is just being an ENTJ. For years I thought he was just being awkward but now I just think it's how his brain is wired. I want things to work, but I'm running out of energy and sanity.

Other than suggesting turning to drink, any tips/thoughts?

Congratulations for surviving 20 years with this man but unless you can make him change you will have to survive another 20 years, can you really waste your whole life being unhappy ? What about your children, is he like this with them ? If so i feel for the poor souls as they must be in a living hell.

It doesn't matter what his personality type is. Your marriage isn't working, it's emotionally and psychologically harmful for you, and quite likely for him too. Are you going to divorce, or are you both committed to working on better communication, understanding, empathy?

It's striking that all your focus seems to be on categorising him, even diagnosing him; but not yourself. If you decide to stay, I'd start there.

hardly any of this is related to ENTJ and a lot of it is borderline abusive

Not borderline. Just abusive unfortunately.

@WildPoinsettia

Your entire post could have been summed up in the sentence "my DH is an arsehole". I suggest you act accordingly.

No this kind of shit is not neurodivergence and there's no such thing as "mild Asperger's". If someone has it they'll be affected, sufficiently badly to be diagnosed!

He's shutting you down and has no intention of sorting out the problems in your marriage, most probably because whatever it is isn't a problem for him only for you.

Is this about the usual, housework and parenting, since you mentioned him "helping" you? FYI it's not "helping" if he also lives in the house and the DC are also his, it's called doing his fair share without expecting praise, payment or favours in return!

I totally agree! He’s a First Class Tosser and is being very abusive. I doubt if you will ever get him to change OP, I’d be making plans.

I can sympathise somewhat. I have a lovely husband but my god it is hard work. If I try and say something could be done differently or he has upset me (however unintentionally), it involves a huge arguement/conversation about how what I am saying could even possibly be valid with detailed descriptions and examples and metaphors and it feels like I have to 'make my case' for my position. I have to remain calm otherwise I'm just written off and patronised, only when I have reached some kind of evidence threshold that what I'm saying could be possibly true do we get on to whether it was actually true in this case, bla bla bla, then at the very end if DH deems it worthy I'll maybe get an acknowledgement or an apology.
It is fucking exhausting and it kills the intimacy, the emotional connection.
I find it so hard to imagine why he does this. If he said I'd upset him over something I'd just say "oh I'm sorry etc etc". You've got the person you love trying to tell you something about how they feel, why make them prove its theoretically a legitimate position first? Why not just take it as read?
It makes me feel like he doesn't think I have any valid emotions or thoughts. I don't think he really thinks that he just has this massive, bizarre quirk. But it's draining. I sympathise. I don't think it's changeable, it's just whether you can bear the frequency/intensity. Which it sounds like you can't for your sanity and emotional well-being. You're allowed to be you and to speak of yourself and your thoughts and your feelings without being picked apart.

This link is to a *.pdf copy of the Lundy Bancroft 'why does he do that' book

why does he do that

I hope you find your way forward and avoid any counselling with anyone who has any abusive tendencies.

It really doesn't matter why someone is incompatible with you. It just matters that you accept this state of affairs snd stop trying to fix it.

Oh and, because you mention faith, I dont believe God wants us to stay with people who manipulate, hurt and mindfuck us.

I think what he would want for us most is to love ourselves and show kindness to ourselves first: Because we cannot pour from an empty cup.
And we might be better people, more capable of helping others if there isn't just this one greedy leach attached to us. Sucking up all the warmth we have and never dispersing any of their own.

Life is a gift and we should spend it with ppl who make us happy and make us better people. Otherwise, we are wasting it.

You cannot pull blackhearted ppl out of the dark anyway. You're neither God, nor a therapist that can magically cure npd. So they'll only ever pull you down into their darkness. Choose the light I say.

Sorry if I missed it, but how are your kids affected by his behaviour, @printmeanicephoto?

Kudupoo

He does not sound lovely at all. His "massive bizarre quirk" as you call it is he being abusive towards you. He will further beat you down completely if you stay which is what he wants and where he wants you. You have a choice here re this man, you do not have to grow flowers in the hole he's put you in.

I totally agree that all the armchair diagnoses or rather labelling - ENTJ/ASD/narc - are completely beside the point.

The man is a twat, he treats you badly. He’s not interested in your perspective and he shouts you down.

After 20 years you either want this to continue or not.

I agree he's an aresehole. But neither would I want to live with you and your constant need for the amateur psychology and labelling. That's not healthy either.

And all of what PinkBonbon wrote as well.

The OP wrote that his own GP refused to refer him for any ASD spectrum condition.

My XH was like this.

I/He have no idea what Myers Briggs personality type he is, because it doesn't matter.

What matters is that I even considered getting myself a little dictaphone, or using the recorder on my phone every time we had a conversation, because he would do the same thing- pick up on a word and then argue about that until I was nearly in tears.

It didn't matter what the discussion/argument was about- he just had to win. Me being upset didn't matter- he just had to win.

He won himself a divorce eventually.

Life is too short to spend your time trying to work out why your husband does things that hurt you. All that matters is that he does, and doesn't appear to want to change.

I don't think it matters how you label it. Your personalities obviously are not meshing well. Why are you staying with him when he treats you this way?

(fwiw, it does sound like he's solidly on the autism spectrum)

I don’t know that it does, there isn’t enough to go on to make that kind of assumption, particularly over the internet.

Your husband sounds like a twat.
I hope this is not ANOTHER thread where the armchair diagnosis of aspergers / autism tries to excuse people simply being an arsehole.

But I agree OP is being very generous trying to make this a medical problem rather than a moral one: he’s just not a very nice person, entirely self-focused, lacks sympathy for or interest in anyone else, he’s rather aggressive and wants to win every discussion rather than actually conversing like an adult.

It’s made this marriage into a kind of war of attrition.

Hi all

Can we please, please avoid diagnosing people through the screen?
We've had to delete quite a few posts on this thread - it's just not in the spirit.

As others have said, regardless of the cause of his behaviour - its abusive. ASD diagnosis, personality type etc, will make no difference to your lived experience.
I can sort of relate to some of what you said in a way. In a previous relationship my ex partner would never accept when I had an issue, I had to justify myself/give examples and evidence and even then he wouldn't accept it. I didn't realise how wrong it was until we split and I'm with someone who isn't like that. I was constantly walking on eggshells, not feeling able to express my feelings and feeling like I was always overreacting.

It's abusive and he won't change.

I don't know how you've survived 20 years! You surely don't have sex with this cold-hearted dictator, do you?

What does love mean, to him?

Does he like you?

How does he usually behave towards people he likes? What does 'friendship' mean, to him? 'Kindness'? 'Respect'?

You seem to be trying pathologise his behaviour away, as if explaining it negates it. It doesn't. If it's unloving and intolerable, it is. It doesn't matter why. Why is not a puzzle for you to solve. Solving it offers you neither respite nor satisfaction.

If he wants to work on himself, to turn himself into someone capable of conducting a humane relationship, that's up to him. I suspect he'd rather live out his life alone, believing himself to be right. His choice.

Hugely abusive.

No wonder your mental health is shot.

You have to decide what is more important for your future for you and your children.

Parents that remain married while their mother's MH deteriorates until a breakdown occurs.

Parents separate, co parent, and your children have a mother who is mentally well.

Your call.

He sounds like a nasty, gaslighting, arsehole.

Your poor children witnessing your deterioration.

Diagnosing then through the screen?
OP suggested ASD traits.

I'm sorry you had to delete the post that said that Aspergers is no longer used, as it comes from an horrendous time in history. Please can we use autistic instead in our online psych evals?