DH's ENTJ behaviour - I'm losing my mind!

[printmeanicephoto]

Really struggling with my ENTJ husband (Myers Briggs personality type). He's always been very lawyer-like, contractual and efficiency-driven. I feel that this works well for him at work (he's not a lawyer btw) but it doesn't necessarily translate well for a marriage relationship.

I feel like I'm going mad because we talk around in circles and we don't seem to make much headway with our issues. Increasingly he has taken to looking up words in the dictionary to prove to me that I'm using them incorrectly when speaking to him (I'm not).

I also feel like I'm being gas-lit when I'm trying to explain how I feel about something and he then focuses in on one word that I've said. It then becomes all about that word to the extent that my original heart-felt sharing/request becomes completely invalid. I recently said that I found an incidence of his behaviour "very rude". He then went to great pains to explain why it was just "rude" and not "very rude", and that I was over inflating the issue by using the word "very". I just felt he needed to get the spirit of what I was saying. This "very" word focus completely derailed the original conversation and I was left totally unheard and confused. This happens regularly. He also rarely apologies for anything and if he does, everything needs to be dissected first.

He recently gave me a hand written note that looked frighteningly like a contract to explain that he was withdrawing his previous offer to help me with something work related unless I stop "weaponising" the fact that I think he may have some Aspergers traits. He doesn't think he does. I don't think I weaponised it, I was just expressing some concerns about how his behaviour is affecting our marriage. The note even had dots for me to sign my name at the bottom! I'm afraid to say that I tore it up in front of him in utter frustration.

We've been together for over 20 years and have teenage kids. This unempathetic behaviour is not new. Not sure if he has mild Aspergers, is a narc or is just being an ENTJ. For years I thought he was just being awkward but now I just think it's how his brain is wired. I want things to work, but I'm running out of energy and sanity.

Other than suggesting turning to drink, any tips/thoughts?

I work with loads of ENTJ types and this typology does not explain his behaviour (they are nit quibblers, tend to be very decisive, focused on big picture stuff). He’s just being a common or garden asshole. I would have ripped up that paper too.

@Franklyfrost

It sounds like a very immature defence mechanism rather than a personality type or neurological difference. Would he go to couples therapy with you? It might take a few sessions (and they are expensive) but a therapist is trained to work though those sort of defences. I don’t think you can do it yourself especially as your partner knows you’re not likely to leave so he doesn’t have much reason to engage.

Joint therapy is not recommended in abusive relationships. What he is doing is a form of abuse.

OP, forget about the labels. This relationship is making you extremely unhappy. Life is too short, imo. I would be getting out ASAP if I were you.

Sorry but this made me laugh because I'm an ENTJ and possibly a nightmare to live with.

I came out as ENTJ when I did MB and I would never behave like that to my DH. Or even want to because of my ENTJ traits but stop myself.

It really sounds like you need counselling. Is there a counsellor you could access through church?

But actually on consideration hardly any of this is related to ENTJ and a lot of it is borderline abusive. So maybe step away from the introvert extrovert judging feeling stuff and think about how he treats you as a human

No advice really except to say this was my experience dating actual lawyers which is why I vowed to never date an lawyer again!!

Stop focusing on diagnosing him to explain what he does and start looking at what motivates/rewards him with that behaviour.
So:

1. you raise an aspect of life with him because its upsetting you and you want him to take that seriously
2. he finds one word in there that he can argue is "wrong"
3. he starts arguing that
4. you start justifying why you used that word Outcome: the original issue/your upset/any change he needs to make is avoided.

It's a great strategy for him and he does it either because he doesn't care about your happiness (if he's an abusive arsehole) or because he can't deal with difficult conversations (if he's avoidant/emotionally incompetent).
My DP sometimes does this when he's feeling really defensive, I just tell him now ("I am not going to discuss this with you if you start nit picking my use of language") and we come back to it when we are both calmer. But he's not an arsehole.

Jesus I’d have left him 19 years ago 😬
That sounds truly exhausting OP

So basically he's found a way to diminish you and your feelings by arguing with you using 'strawmen'. It's a form of mental abuse, OP. I would not let your faith stand in the way of getting free from this. I am a Christian and agonised over getting divorced from my (abusive) ex, but figured that in the end it's what I had to do and God would forgive me, I just had to forgive myself!

Myers Briggs is nonsense. And Autism doesn’t make you a twat.

You're not helping yourself by fixating on Myers Briggs, which is a total scam that no one should take seriously.
Your H is an arsehole, that's all you need to know. And if you are not willing to divorce him, your only real option is to learn how to not let his tiresomeness get to you. Have you tried laughing at him or just walking away when he starts up?

I'm not religious but surely your faith doesn't demand you stay with an abuser. That abuse must break the marriage contract? He's not loving and cherishing is he?

myers brigs won’t fix what you have got and I couldn’t live like this /with him.

You sound like you have spend hours, days….weeks trying to find ways to understand and improve your relationship with your DH.

QUESTION: how much time and effort has HE put into understanding who you are? How you work? And how he can adapt and understand how better to communicate with YOU???!!

Think on that and then go see a divorce lawyer to explore options

Based on my own experience, you cannot make this work OP.

You will, as you are, drive yourself mad trying to find a way to get through to him, to communicate with him, and to get him to act like a normal person in a normal functional relationship. Its been 20 years OP. He is not going to change.

It doesn't matter why he is like this. Just that he is like this.

You either accept it. Which is hard, because it means you have to make all the emotional and mental sacrifice and burden, you have to squash yourself down smaller to be able to not react to how he is.

Or you don't accept it and leave the relationship.

There is no middle way here,.

A few years ago he said he will have an official Asperger's assessment to get me off his back, but he said that I have to do all the leg work to sort it all out. In the end he made the process all so difficult for me that I gave up searching for the right person/org to assess him. And GP wouldn't refer him as mentioned in my previous post

That's him telling you that your concerns about him have no validity, that he has no interest in changing and will never change.

@CatAndHisKit

ENTJs are really not pedantic, they can struggle with detail generally as they are dynamic and not the most patient to say the least, to add to Hundred s post.

This. (I’m ENTJ as well!)

It doesn't really matter if why he is like he is, it's not working for you and it has you questioning wether you want to continue with the relationship.

If he doesn't see any issue with his behaviour then he won't change. He's refusing to have any assessments, which leads me to believe he thinks he doesn't need it. If he sees issues in your behaviour and you're not happy to facilitate a change in your behaviour to meet his needs, then it's either game over, or a very unhappy 40 odd years. Would he go to couples counselling?

My soon to be exH (Aspergers diagnosis) did this nit picking over words all.the.time. It was horrendous and infuriating. I'm also an English teacher so was always correct but he would never admit it It was one of his defence mechanisms against ever entering into a real conversation and deflecting blame. We never got to the bottom of anything. He never accepted responsibility for any of the hurt he caused me and was hell to live with unless everything was going his way. We split a few months ago and I've never been happier. I can only speak from my experience OP but if your H is on the spectrum then unless he's in regular therapy I don't see how you could ever have a proper conversation about any issues. Does he see there's a problem and does he want to change? Mine tried therapy for a while and said 'I'll do anything to make you happy' but couldn't sustain the therapy sessions, couldn't have conversations, could never understand my view or that I had feelings. I stuck it out for years but it became evident he was not going to be able to change and in the end didn't want to. I feel your pain as it's just relentless and endless having those types of gaslighting conversations. Please think about your mental well-being as mine was in the doldrums before I got away and I'm lucky I bounced back fairly well. However I'm left with mental scars, always second guessing my own opinions and feelings after years of being told they are wrong, I'm too emotional, I'm over reacting etc etc. wondering if I can speak up or if someone will get out the dictionary and analyse my vocabulary choice. Good luck. If he won't have therapy consider some for yourself.

@printmeanicephoto

ThisisMax - thanks for your thoughts. Yes, I am conscious that MBTI is not 100% accurate and agree that there's a danger in putting too much store in it. I just feel totally confused and I'm worried that I'm being emotionally abused (albeit not intentionally possibly iygwim). Either way it's affecting my mental health (and DH's too).

Look, ex psychology teacher here. It is 100% bollocks. Nothing in it at all. It just had some great PR and sold well.

This one has as much validity

adminfinance.umw.edu/tess/files/2018/02/PIG-Personality-Profile.pdf

Now. STOP. Stop trying to analyse him. That is as irritating and as much of a diversion tactic as his focussing on a single word is.

Do you want out of your marriage or don't you?

That's the ONLY thing you need to decide at this moment in time!

Stop thinking about him, put yourself first.

Please stop now with tying your own self in knots as a result of trying and failing to diagnose him with something/anything. It won't change who he is in terms of personality and it won't help you. He is likely to be very much a product of his own upbringing; what do you know about his own childhood here because that often gives clues.

If you want to attach any label to him let that be "abuser of you" and in turn your children who have seen you as their mother be abused by him. He likely targeted you deliberately as well because of your own kind and empathetic nature. He does this too because he can and feels absolutely entitled to do so; he really does feel he has done nothing wrong here re you or anything.

Do not indeed let your Christian faith nor your children be the reasons you stay with this man. If your church is indeed Christian they would heartily support you in leaving your abuser; there is nothing in Christianity that says it is ok for a wife to be treated by her husband in the ways you have been and still are. Your children are also learning about relationships from you; this is no legacy to be leaving them and they have also learnt a lot of damaging lessons about relationships here. If one of your adult children came to you describing this relationship what would your own counsel be?. Would you be telling them to stay because of their Christian faith and or for the supposed sake of the children?. I would think not.

And again, an utter wanker of a man being explained away by'oh he might have Aspergers' nope he's just a cunt!!
It's beyond insulting to those who DO have Aspergers.

Does it matter why he is how he is? Is there a point to trying to give him a named condition when it's how he treats you that matters?

He knows how you feel. He doesn't care. That's what matters, not analysing his personality type or trying to match him to online quizes.

He knows you are unhappy. He knows what he could do differently. He doesn't want to. You could have 20 assessments and all that would do would have you trying to change your behaviour in attempt after attempt after attempt to make a man who already understands why you are unhappy, 'understand' why you are unhappy

At some point you have to ask yourself - what is the point of flogging this dead horse? I've already flayed it to the bone and the marrow is visible.

As others have said, I'd worry less about the cause of his behaviour and more about the impact of it - on you.

Someone above mentioned friends and family being delighted to see the 'old them' return. As someone who has watched a dear friend go through this, it is true. They will have seen you slowly shrink inside yourself and will be truly overjoyed to see you emerge back out again.

There is a happier life than this out there.

A lot of people we mights see as entj are just narcissists. Lacking empathy and gaslighting and lots of the other things you are experiencing are narc traits too.

Try to thibk of it this way - emotionally healthy individuals - write a list down of how they approach: appologies, forgiveness, other peoples mistakes, resolving issues and arguments.

Then ask yourself the same of emotionally unhealthy individuals. How do they approach these things?

Which list is he on?
If he is on the later, time to go. Life is too short.