DH's ENTJ behaviour - I'm losing my mind!

[printmeanicephoto]

Really struggling with my ENTJ husband (Myers Briggs personality type). He's always been very lawyer-like, contractual and efficiency-driven. I feel that this works well for him at work (he's not a lawyer btw) but it doesn't necessarily translate well for a marriage relationship.

I feel like I'm going mad because we talk around in circles and we don't seem to make much headway with our issues. Increasingly he has taken to looking up words in the dictionary to prove to me that I'm using them incorrectly when speaking to him (I'm not).

I also feel like I'm being gas-lit when I'm trying to explain how I feel about something and he then focuses in on one word that I've said. It then becomes all about that word to the extent that my original heart-felt sharing/request becomes completely invalid. I recently said that I found an incidence of his behaviour "very rude". He then went to great pains to explain why it was just "rude" and not "very rude", and that I was over inflating the issue by using the word "very". I just felt he needed to get the spirit of what I was saying. This "very" word focus completely derailed the original conversation and I was left totally unheard and confused. This happens regularly. He also rarely apologies for anything and if he does, everything needs to be dissected first.

He recently gave me a hand written note that looked frighteningly like a contract to explain that he was withdrawing his previous offer to help me with something work related unless I stop "weaponising" the fact that I think he may have some Aspergers traits. He doesn't think he does. I don't think I weaponised it, I was just expressing some concerns about how his behaviour is affecting our marriage. The note even had dots for me to sign my name at the bottom! I'm afraid to say that I tore it up in front of him in utter frustration.

We've been together for over 20 years and have teenage kids. This unempathetic behaviour is not new. Not sure if he has mild Aspergers, is a narc or is just being an ENTJ. For years I thought he was just being awkward but now I just think it's how his brain is wired. I want things to work, but I'm running out of energy and sanity.

Other than suggesting turning to drink, any tips/thoughts?

Also be kind to yourself because its really really hard to notice things and patterns. And even harder to leave it. For ages you may have thought..its not too bad. But something will push it over the edge. Might even be when your kids leave home.
I realised as I turned 50 I hadn't noticed 20 years of this kind of behaviour as my DM is exactly the same...so i'd been raised in this way. I'm not blaming her as such but had she been supportive and not the same i'd have not put up with it for so long. I also didn't have a support network. But people like this don't like divorce as they lose control of the situation and of you. So its extra tough.

Kids are teens, soon to be adults. Leave now or wait a few years and leave when they're grown up if there is no improvement.

There is more to life than sticking in an unhappy relationship just because.

I’ve been avidly reading this thread. OP, I am in a similar situation, and reading your story and the advice given, most of it excellent, has helped me make more sense of things. For example, DH of 26 years often speaks to me in a condescending, pompous tone and looks at me as if I’m really stoopid. He did it last night. I asked him a question and he responded in such a contemptuous way that I said, as I often do - ‘Why do you speak to me like that?’ He responded, as he almost always does, ‘Like what? I don’t speak to you like anything.’ I tried again this morning to explain, and he was the same - raised his voice, pompous, contemptuous. Didn’t deny I’d been upset, but said he hadn’t done anything to upset me and ‘didn’t agree’ with what I was saying. Also, it’s not uncommon for him to tell me I over-think things, am too sensitive (I’m not) and he will also tell me that what I have said is not what I mean - ‘I’ll tell you what you mean.’ Like you, I’ve been trying to make sense of it, but reading your thread I now think it is abusive. I had honestly never realised that before! And yet he's such a nice guy, everyone likes him, he can be very, very kind. But I’ve been looking at the book by Lundy Bancroft that some pps mentioned - this is explained in there, abusers often have periods of kindness and being nice (that’s how we ended up with them), along with a heap of other stuff I can relate to. He’s not as bad as the examples, but there are many traits I see in him. I just wanted to share this and reiterate what others have said - you won’t change him and should probably leave. I have had breakdowns, harmed myself (needed hospital treatment!), distanced myself from friends and think I am probably depressed. As a result of your thread, I’m going to go back to my counsellor next week and talk to her about my newfound understanding. Like you, we had couple’s counselling, but it didn’t work as he just diminished my concerns and feelings and wouldn’t engage between sessions. Though of course he denies this. It messes with your head. Take care and don’t let the bugger destroy you and diminish your sense of self like my lovely ‘DH’ has. Xx

@Somuchtogive congratulations on your breakthough & please keep seeing your counsellor for as long as you need.

I totally understand your ... suffocation & frustration at your H's pomposity & contempt. It's all so plausibly deniable isn't it?
HE has done nothing wrong, whereas YOU, with your silly little brain, can't possibly aspire to his heights of wisdom, & need to be put back in your box & told not to feel things, & shut down until you cannot even articulate things.

don’t let the bugger destroy you and diminish your sense of self like my lovely ‘DH’ has
Diminished but not destroyed.
You will regrow, & you will be wiser, more resilient, & stronger than you were before. You have so much life & joy ahead of you, all waiting to burst into bloom as soon as you are free of your H's poison.

Thank you @ChargingBuck

@Somuchtogive
If you ever find yourself trying to explain to someone why obviously hurtful behaviour is hurtful, you are in an abusive relationship. If someone asked me the one thing that I would say to people questioning if they are being abused, it would be that.

If they look at you like they just don't 'get it' so you keep looking for another way to explain. Or if they tell you or imply you are overreacting, oversensitive or crazy...STOP trying to explain to them. They KNOW their behaviour is hurtful. They just don't want you to know they know. Even if they were not aware why their behaviour was hurtful, they would look to comfort you and understand your upset.

I hope you get yourself free! No one deserves to live e with someone who is intent on driving them crazy.

@printmeanicephoto

I think the labelling is a way of me trying to process things, to make sense of the last two decades. And also in the vague hope that a diagnosis might unlock some help, support and tools to help me (and him). Does that make sense? But you're probably right guys, it ultimately doesn't matter and he clearly doesn't want to be labelled.

I've just read your thread from beginning to end, and I'm quite happy to label him all right. He's an IDMT/UOA.

Otherwise known as 'Insufferable Dickhead & Monumental Twat' and 'Up his Own Arse'.

And you must have the patience of an absolute saint to have lasted this long.

And you’ve put up with this for 20 years? Why?
I would have shoved his contract where the sun doesn’t shine. He’s had plenty of time and opportunities to change his behaviour at home; he hasn’t.

You're not describing a situation with love in it, OP.

@somuchtogive

Well done. Be strong...

Its the refusing to listen and acting like I'm hysterical that has sent me crazy. I've made tons of mistakes in the rest of my life and I now realise that for probably ten years I've had very little love and I've basically been caught in a seige... but no longer!

When he starts, are you not tempted to just tilt your head and say, "Ahh bless."

Now is the time to leave. The kids are grown. You can find yourself again and leave him to hold court on his own. The fact that he uses legal jargon against you means he's irretrievable I imagine. I would leave him wherever he is mentally now and save yourself.
Pick a beautiful part of the country/world. Imagine living there without him and having a nice life and that scenario will carry you through the divorce.
Please don't stay with this man. He's a robot and his empathy chip fell out long since.

@printmeanicephoto just like @lljkk has said…. My lightbulb moment was when I realised that when love and respect goes….there’s not much left.

I’m now in a new relationship which may or may not last, but the conversations we have are two way ones, we speak with respect, and listen to each other.

We also hug a lot 🤗

He sounds like an army sergeant and it is not fair that you cannot relax in your own house as he is all about lists and chores and doing things right. You need to stand up to him and say well if you do not like how I do it then that can be your new job. I really think it would benefit you to talk to someone on your own as he sounds awful and so controlling. The church would be supportive of you so please take that support and open up to people as these kind of men like to keep us isolated so we do not reach out to others. Other people will tell you it is not a healthy way to live at all and must be hard for your children also if he has such high demands. He is acting like some kind of a leader and this will break you down over time. While you are stronger please get legal advice and think of you and the children as it will not get any easier but worse over time if he is unwilling to change his ways. My heart goes out to you and so sorry you are going through this. Please try to get some help so you can make changes in your life now rather than later. In a year you will look back and think why did I not do it sooner and you will have peace of mind.

At Carnations, well said, could not have put it better myself. This poor woman has been broken and it will get worse so I really hope she takes the steps to free herself as once the respect gone nothing left only abuse and control from him. Lots of us have been here in your situation and there is a way out for you. Be strong and get help and you will be free and be able to find your inner self again as these kind of men just break your soul/spirit until you do not recognize who you are anymore but you can find yourself again and peace of mind.

Please look up Oppositional Confrontation Style. Also gaslighting. impossible to have a conversation with anyone like this and they keep twisting things around so in the end have you so flustered do not know what you are saying.

I am a Christian and was married to an abuser for over 20 years. My exh acted just as you describe your partner - particularly the never good enough housework and the nitpicking specific words or tone in order to derail a conversation he didn't like. I used my faith to pray for safe deliverance from my situation, and Jesus came through for me. He doesn't want for you to be a shell of the person He created with such love. Other things that were instrumental in me getting out were -

1. Individual counselling with someone with experience in dealing with abusive relationships (this part crucial - the first therapist I went to lasted for 2 sessions before I left, as she kept asking to hear my ex's side of things and it was clear she really didn't get it)
2. Reading Lundy Bancroft's "Why does he do that?" (in snatched moments at the bookshop because I was scared of being found out)
3. Educating myself about covert narcissism (Shahida Arabi is an excellent resource for this).

If you want to message me I'm happy to chat further.

Hi, I know this is an old post and you've heard this alot, but I'm an ENTJ. It's hard feeling like you cannot relate to anyone around you, it's hard not knowing why people don't understand you and the way you think, but it's no excuse to behave like a narcissistic arse. About 9 years old I was convinced I had a superpower, I could lie so well it was brilliant never slipping up and getting much of what I wanted, I could manipulate adults, children, my parents, teachers, my poor sibling. But around 12 I decided I didn't want to hurt people and my lies were starting to put me in positions where I felt trapped in a memory game. I truly believe that one of the biggest idenitfiers of an ENTJ is their ability to manipulate the masses. However, those who are empathetic stand out unequivocally from those who lack it, without learning empathy I think it's easy for an ENTJ to delve into narcissism because its comforting to their egos.

My point is, OP, that you're onto something. However, just know, we aren't all like this. Good luck and I hope your life is better now 💛